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FDA declares popular alt-medicine kratom to be a deadly opioid

This is fucking dumb, I don't get their obsession to ban anything remotely psychoactive. A deadly opioid? What a joke, this plant has been around for a long time (though more research is needed) and you don't see kratom junkies roaming the streets or a lot people overdosing on it...Why ban it now? This would only make things worse.
 
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Fucks sake, I just don't get this need to, whilst making fat profits from tobacco and alcohol, ban EVERYTHING in any way psychoactive.

Its a mixture of greed and prejudice, ugly, dirty and simple as that. Fucking DEA and the like are a rotting diseased chancre sore growing out of the dick of the lowest of subhumanity, the pig-fucking filth.
 
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With all due respect to a valiant effort. "Let the white house know"? This is the administration that appointed sessions. If sessions is lucid for a few minutes from his severe Alzheimer's like dementia and he catches wind of what kratom is....a petition signed by 1oo% of people in the US would not stop him from scheduling.

I don't know how good of an idea it is to put this on the WH radar...thier crack pot opioids task force would see this as low hanging fruit to schedule so they could say they did something to combat the fentanyl epidemic by taking the deadly kratom off the streets
 
While I'm certainly no fan of prohibition. I will say that calling it a herbal supplement is a pile of horseshit :D.

It's not a drug, it's a supplement. God bless marketing.
 
The FDA's position is outright tyranny. They're ignoring all the available evidence that Kratom has clinical efficacy in the opioid epidemic and is a safer alternative.

Big pharma strikes again. These scumbags deserve to be exiled to a desert island.
 
Bollocks kratom is a 'supplement', it might have to be sold in the US that way. But no, its an active, fully active mixed opioid receptor agonist alkaloid-containing plant, its a drug. And just because something is natural and green and has leaves doesn't make it de facto benign. Aconite is a plant, water hemlocks are plants....manchineel is a plant, and yet savage tribes would execute people by tying them to a manchineel tree and leaving the bastard to be flayed alive by the phorbol esters the next time it rained and washed the leaves.

BUT, this is a plant with uses, such as cutting down on harsher, more dangerous opioids in favour of less powerful ones, and importantly, putting the control IN THE HANDS OF THE USER, not in the hands of a doctor, or some harsh-policied detox clinic that then sees itself as having the god-granted right to make demands on the user or go without the help they need and which their taxes paid for.
 
kratom is no doubt a drug, the same as opium, coca, mushrooms, peyote, khat, coffee, etc. theres no legit reason to restrict its use or sale though, same with other plants and drugs. this puritanical bullshit of needing to regulate people's bodies is vile.
 
kratom is no doubt a drug, the same as opium, coca, mushrooms, peyote, khat, coffee, etc. theres no legit reason to restrict its use or sale though, same with other plants and drugs. this puritanical bullshit of needing to regulate people's bodies is vile.

If there's one thing that immediately discredits somebody in my eyes it's them saying something isn't a drug because it's natural.

Thank you!

The whole kratom thing is almost like left vs right politics....I know where I stand but some people on my side are so far gone they make me resent my own viewpoint.
 
Big pharmas got thier hand up the DEA's ass. Im willing to bet the soul reason they dont want Kratom legal is because of Suboxone, methadone and Vivitrol! Shame on the DEA!!! They say kratom is harmful yet you can go buy a 5th of whiskey at almost any gas station in my town. Pffff.... Kratom is probably more safe than coffee!
 
kratom is no doubt a drug, the same as opium, coca, mushrooms, peyote, khat, coffee, etc. theres no legit reason to restrict its use or sale though, same with other plants and drugs. this puritanical bullshit of needing to regulate people's bodies is vile.

That's my opinion as well

I always thought it was also amusing to see phenibut being marketed as a "dietary supplement"
 
On some level I can expand the word drug to include verbs, like shopping, gambling, or a sympathetic soul to a narcissist. :) Actually a lot of herbals used may not even have the actual drug in it discovered yet. And agreed, no one sits on such a high ground that they can point a finger as to what is ethical and what is not. Humans should be free to utilize anything from nature they want without interference.

Within that context I think I have more faith in humanity since Sessions gave the green light to massively bust MM and pot shops and no law enforcement is doing that. We don't see a war on the news. Quiet as a mouse. That is very encouraging. So raging on another plant is not the direction you would think we would want to go in. I see even law enforcement doesn't want that shit show.

We had congressman and senators drafting letters to study kratom because some of the family members they knew used it for things. You can not make a criminal out of people in this way. So this will be interesting. I remember when kava had the FDA after to a degree. And we know a lot more about the actives in kava than say 30 years ago. Kava is a drug too used as an herbal suppliment, or at least sold like that.
 
The word "drug" has a lot of stigma attached to it, that's the issue. The average person hears "drug" and immediately thinks about whatever cliche they have in their heads (usually people ruining their lives and/or dying) and this inevitably has an impact on the law.

Not all drugs are created equal and it doesn't matter if they're natural or synthetic.
Just because kratom (which is a leaf) contains a low amount of mitragynine which also acts on the opioid receptors doesn't mean it's a deadly opioid. "The dose makes the poison".

If you were to isolate a good amount of mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine then yeah it could easily kill you but so would nicotine, paracetamol, etc... And what about kava, valerian, saint john worth and many more? Should they be made illegal as well?
 
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Botox is one of the deadliest substances in the world...

It's also natural, much like ricin.. And anthrax. My point is the all natural crowd are retarded.
 
Tomato tomato. That expression really doesn't work in text does it? Tomayto Tomahto? Doesn't really work either.. And my phones auto correct gets bitchy about it too.

Point is it's stupid of course. You know what I often find both sad and a little horrifying?

We live in a truly amazing age. The internet, probably the greatest creation in the history of man kind, has allowed us to learn just about anything about just about any subject almost without cost.

Yet, so few appreciate it. They use it to post shit on Facebook, they use it learn about retarded trivial shit. Which in itself isn't bad, I do that too. Not Facebook I hate Facebook, but learn about trivial shit. But it's bad that it's ALL they use it for. They act like they shouldn't keep learning just for learnings sake after school. I blame the education system for a lot of it. They make education into work. Make people feel like it's something they're made to do, or as a means to an end. Rather than just learning because there's so much more left to learn.

People often seem so surprised when they hear just how little formal education I have. Didn't finish high school, 1 year of college, that's about it. And I wouldn't say I actually learned almost anything from any of it. I taught myself nearly everything i know with the internet. Had I been born any time in history but now, I wouldn't have had that option. Given that the education system if anything held back my education, it infuriates me that anyone might credit them for however knowledgeable I am.

My point is, there is no excuse for ignorance, and no excuse for not being educated, unless of course you have a severe learning disorder.

Yet, despite that, people are shockingly ignorant on the whole. I had an argument with my brother once when I told him that most people probably couldn't confidently tell you what the 3 subatomic particles that make up an atom are (not counting the elementary particles that make up protons and neutrons). He just utterly refused to believe people were that ignorant. He believes it now, but at the time he refused too.

It's really depressing. I wish so badly he'd been right and I'd been wrong.

Look at how much harm ignorance causes. People die form their failure to trust modern medicine and putting their faith in unsupported pseudoscience. They refuse to vaccinate their children.

I mean, people are pretty fucking stupid anyway, but even so, they're still not living up to anywhere near their potential. Personally I think we should abolish our education system and start over from scratch. I think people tend to fail to recognize how bad it is. I mean, if most of the students have forgotten nearly all of it a couple years after graduation, that's a huge failure. And staggering waste of money.

Sorry I kinda got sidetracked. It's just really frustrating you know?
 
Yeah, we have way too many morons, its time for a cull if you ask me. Not the people who have genuine learning disorders or mental retardation, but those who are simply stupid fucking cocksuckers without the slightest right to breath the air I fart out of my autistic furry fucking arse (alright, it isn't THAT furry, and being a guy I don't intend on getting fucked in it but the metaphor stands) and who do nothing but eat, shit and listen to rap/pop music that a computer could write and pass off with the right programming and the instruction in the former case to insert the words 'nigger' 'nigga' 'nigguh' 'bitch' 'shank', 'shoot and 'cap yo ass mothafucka', picking several from the above and inserting them into every sentence, or attempt at one.

The moment somebody is found capable of thinking for themselves and coming out with anything but the party line as camouflage to hide that fact, then the state hates 'em. THEIR enemy number one they project and try to force the sheeple, not that it takes much doing since they so willingly graze on grass of so low a quality even a rabbit wouldn't eat it when truly desperate and dying of starvation, not to mention the poisonous plants and thistles in the field as well that they'd start to complain if deprived of their steady diet of mass produced, vacuous, flatulent, fermenting pile of shit doled out to the sheeple as silage; to believe that the government's enemy is theirs too. Not for a minute realizing that THEY are that enemy.

Sheep, begging the farmer to cook bloody lamb chops tonight, is what it is. I'm ashamed of the species at large to be honest (the onine with one set of hooves. I just eat the kind with two.)

Come to think of it, it might not be a bad idea to start doing it to those with one set as well that are part of the cretin brigade.. Old people sandwich anyone?

And you wouldn't even get people to remember what sticks the fundamental insides of non-leptonic particles together if you gave them a name like 'gluons'

And now, with regular energy scales, we have the electron, in wide use, for electronics and spintronics, at higher energies, muons, then the tau lepton, but at really low energy scales when studying stupidity, the particles we see most aren't the leptons, but the fucking bandwagons. Exposure to which at the quantum scale, uniquely, seems to remain quite certain when observed or not. Morons will jump on it. Some of them will make an observation its there, the others just jump and hope there is something other than a long distance, short duration drop onto the pavement underneath.

As for schools, don't even get me started. Mine actively held me back. Special school told me 'oh no, we don't do higher tier GCSE papers you just have to take the lower tier instead (the MOST you can get on these is a 'C' grade no matter how well one does) What did I do? I already HAD a lab better then theirs in many ways at home, was already teaching myself, and the paper I got stuck with, I got one single missed mark, that pisses me off, spread across the chemistry, bio and physics papers, for merely miswriting the formula for carbonate in place of hydrogencarbonate. And I bloody well know the difference, even then I went through a kilo bottle of potassium or sodium carbonate, or NaOH/KOH/both in some electrolysis procedures investigating deep eutectics for the alkali melt due to the inconvenient habit sodium metal has on dissolving in NaOH if it gets only a tiny bit warmer than the MP. Bottles of HCl, 98% H2SO4 get plowed through, and got plowed through then not that much faster than I pour soft drinks down the biggest hole in my face. Might of had a few near misses when I was very first starting out avoiding the acquisition of more of them and bigger ones, but, thats what face, eye and body protection is for when your working around a pot of molten caustic potash and NaOH blended together, saturated in argon and heated with an electrically heated solder-pot in disposable vessels and the NaK wants to come out and show some of its fireworks just the same.

Never forgiven my school for that fuck over. They should have let me take the highest tier papers, so I could get an A* in chem/bio/physics like I should have, scoring the best fucking marks that the school at the time I was there have ever had. So its entirely their fault that they made a 'rogue' chemist who's selfemployed and who no uni would ever take seriously unless I built a cyclotron, stuck paperclips up their arseholes and then pointed them feet-first towards the magnet in the hopes of pulling their heads out from up there.
 
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