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Favourite Philosophical Concept?

rickolasnice

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Apr 19, 2007
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To be honest I get confused as to what, exactly, philosophy is. Where does philosophy end and unprovable science begin?

So anyway.. is this philosophy?

Nikodem Poplawski has a hypothesis that black holes give birth to new universes.. The laws of physics within each universe would slightly differ.. The universes that are more suited to create (more? / better?) black holes are more likely to pass on their laws of physics.. Akin to survival of the fittest in the biological world.

I find this idea beautiful.

I also like the russian doll theory.. Size is relative.. imagine being able to shrink down to a googolplex the size of neutron.. or grow a googolplex the size of the (observable?) universe.. Maybe there are other worlds on different size scales that will forever be beyond sciences reach of detection.

Does theoretical physics fall under philosophical ideas? :p

Anyway.. What's your favourite philosophical concept?
 
Theoretical physics looks like spirituality to me. I know they are just forming hypotheses based on the math, such as the big bang, but the fact that these things are taught as truth just boggle my mind.

If anything, the past 40-50 of years of astrophysics have taught us that the universe is still far beyond our comprehension.
 
Didn't know the big bang theory was being taught as truth.. When i was taught about it it was like "Scientists believe blah blah blah".. avoiding the This is how it happened statements..

But i kinda get what you mean. There is a lot of theoretical physics that can never be proven.. that's why I don't believe in any of it.. Possibilities, sure, but for every theoretical hypothesis that comes out another couple will not be long behind.. for example dark matter existing purely to make the math work.. It's like there's a hole in their equation so they throw in another dimension or particle we can't see, hear, smell, taste, touch and so far; detect.. so along comes http://news.nationalgeographic.co.u...of-gravity-quantum-theory-cern-space-science/ .. Dark matter isn't needed in this theory but it's still just a big fat MAYBE.. but i guess that's how science works.. That's a pretty bad example of something that can never be proven so how about yours, the big bang theory or M theory.. I swear the scientists coming up with M theory are just creating an equation that may work but may well be completely irrelevant and wrong.. Stupid theory I hate M theory :p

It's a shame we'll probably never know what happens at the point of singularity.. That's something I'd like to know before I die.

But anyway; what's your favourite philosophical concept?
 
Theoretical physics looks like spirituality to me. I know they are just forming hypotheses based on the math, such as the big bang, but the fact that these things are taught as truth just boggle my mind.

If anything, the past 40-50 of years of astrophysics have taught us that the universe is still far beyond our comprehension.
I listened to a guy present the Kalam Cosmological Argument at a bar the other night... and he tried backing it up with astrophysics(used them to back up the idea that the past con not be infinite and that everything requires a cause... except God because he apparently doesn't have to follow the rules). Nothing I said could get him to understand that his argument was a big semantic game.
 
it's a philosophy of mind thing, where you can't ever be sure if another person is really sentient or not.

the wiki has a good summary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

My favorite is something similar to this, don't know if it has a specific name or is even a theory/concept. It's where there is essentially only one person here at all times (your point of observation) and that every other sentient person/organism is you but living in another time. So basically you experience all other points of observation separately in different lives.. which also means there is no such thing as time as the world repeats as it were for you to experience it from another perspective.
 
A good many concepts have grabbed me over time. Guess I'll start with two:

reification:
this is an originally Marxist concept whereby people find themselves compelled to view ever dynamic social processes, their participants, and according consequences as stable things, not just representative of the processes they reflect but obfuscating their origins. A key instantiation thereof is commodity fetishism, whereby items we purchase are viewed as things with inherent, objective qualities, to be traded among atomized individuals (rather than as mere aspects of a particular moment within given practices of production, distribution, and the social context that conditions such practices).

I guess what intrigues me about reification is that society as a system in motion produces an illusory view of both the whole and its constituents as it functions, but it is through action via this illusory lens that this social system is reproduced.

strange-loop:
God, this is challenging for me to conceptualize, let alone describe.* The strange loop is a type of conceptual relation that is Douglas Hofstadter's near singular fascination, and one he considers to undergird consciousness. Basically, the idea is that with a given system (physical or conceptual...this whole idea undermines the very distinction, as we'll see) existent in terms of multiple 'levels of analysis' and capable of self-representation, attempts by the system to describe itself at any given level of representation will lead unexpectedly to an account at another level of representation (and in turn paradox via self-reference).

To start, look at the Russel Paradox: take the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. Is it a member of itself? If we assume it is, it's entailed by its very definition that it is NOT a member of itself. If we assume it is not a member of itself, it's entailed by its definition that it IS a member of itself.

Another good example is the first Godel incompleteness theorem**, which demonstrates that no symbolic framework complex enough to allow derivation of arithmetic can be both consistent (disallowing the derivation of contradictory statements using the system's rules validly. . .put otherwise, entailing that validly applying derivational rules to true premises will yield true conclusions) and complete (allowing for proof of all true true theorems expressible by that system within that system). To do this, Godel used integers to represent statements about the symbolic underpinnings of arithmetic (let's call the latter symbolic system "Theory T"...there are many such possible Ts). Godel's key move was to express a self-referential statement, "This statement is unprovable within theory T," using an integer, let's say "G". This is problematic: assume that G is true. This entails that T contains theorems that are true but cannot be proven by valid use of its rules, so T is incomplete. So instead, let's assume that G is false. This means that T can prove G, a false statement, and T is thus inconsistent.

I find this intriguing, as it suggests that no complete and rigorous description of a given system can be made within that system.

Hofstadter thinks that the emergent self, a mind trying to describe itself to itself, provides another such example of a strange loop. Neural activity in producing the experience of dynamically linked symbols produces a conception of a coherent self that exercises 'free will' (let's define the latter autonomous causal influence over what this self does), understands motivations in terms of its desires, feelings, etc., provides an account of itself in terms of strings of memories, and so forth. If this description were true and exhaustive, then the neurology of the brain couldn't have produced it. Yet it is through the symbolic systems of the mind that we fashion an intelligible description of this neurology itself (for only conscious investigators come to know about neurology).

*like, really, someone else should chime in with elaborations and/or corrections
**again, I'm not too happy with how this took shape despite additional consultation, including a wikipedia-based refresher

ebola
 
Foreigner said:
Theoretical physics looks like spirituality to me. I know they are just forming hypotheses based on the math, such as the big bang, but the fact that these things are taught as truth just boggle my mind.

I'm guessing that you've read the Tao of Physics? If not, I suggest it.

ebola
 
Theoretical physics looks like spirituality to me. I know they are just forming hypotheses based on the math, such as the big bang, but the fact that these things are taught as truth just boggle my mind.

If anything, the past 40-50 of years of astrophysics have taught us that the universe is still far beyond our comprehension.

Surviving comes first, prior to understanding of the universe. So far no human being managed to survive, they all died. We all die when we're 80. How can you understand the universe, if you're dead? First we must solve the death problem and become immortal, and once that worry is off our shoulders we can worry about something else. What humans are doing is going one step ahead of themselves. Imagine how easy science would have evolved if Einstein was still among us. Death, is what holds us back and until that's not dealt with, there will be no progress or understanding of anything.
 
it's a philosophy of mind thing, where you can't ever be sure if another person is really sentient or not.

the wiki has a good summary
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
That makes me think of video game NPCs

Surviving comes first, prior to understanding of the universe. So far no human being managed to survive, they all died. We all die when we're 80. How can you understand the universe, if you're dead? First we must solve the death problem and become immortal, and once that worry is off our shoulders we can worry about something else. What humans are doing is going one step ahead of themselves. Imagine how easy science would have evolved if Einstein was still among us. Death, is what holds us back and until that's not dealt with, there will be no progress or understanding of anything.
No way is it garaunteed that Einstein woul have/could have been an endless fountain of discovery if he was immortal. This also seems to ignore the fact that we advance because each new generation gets to pick up where the last one left off... I get what you're saying, but in reality immortality would only increase the speed of advancement, not actually increase our overall potential.
 
ebola, thanks for introducing me to the Strange Loop -- definitely an interesting idea. By this logic, we could very well create (or maybe have already created) a computer which possesses a form of self-awareness, but we could probably not create a form of artificial intelligence that recognized us as its creators and grasped the hardware and software engineering that undergirded its sentience. If this is the case, then Douglas Hofstaeder has killed off another beloved sci-fi trope.

I'm too tired to come up with any famous writer or public intellectual's name for this concept, but I'm much taken with the idea that time could be a Moebius strip, whereby technology advances to the point where we build an enormous computer like the Matryoshka Brain, capable of simulating our entire world down to the subatomic level. So then we all plug into it, a la The Matrix, and stay there. At that point, it becomes impossible, dare I say a moot point, to determine whether what we're living in and experiencing now is the original naturally-evolved world, or a perfect simulation of it. Or a simulation within a simulation. Or if there ever was a naturally-evolved world in the first place, as opposed to an endless (or at least very long) regress of simulations within simulations.

Folks, I spend my working days being hard-nosed and logically rigorous; please forgive me if my taste in philosophical concepts is wishful, cheesy, and decidedly not highbrow or cutting edge :)
 
That makes me think of video game NPCs


No way is it garaunteed that Einstein woul have/could have been an endless fountain of discovery if he was immortal. This also seems to ignore the fact that we advance because each new generation gets to pick up where the last one left off... I get what you're saying, but in reality immortality would only increase the speed of advancement, not actually increase our overall potential.

Speed is everything. If you remove the catalyst out of a reaction, the reaction never occurs. Not because it's infinitly slow, but because it's too slow, and other things occur meanwhile, like oxidation, bacterial infection of the reaction medium, byproducts etc.

The world around doesn't just give you an infinite amount of time to figure things out. It is time bound. Tomorrow a huge asteroid might miss Jupiter and crash into Earth instead. So every second we have in plus, is essential.
 
ksa said:
How can you understand the universe, if you're dead?

Our understanding instead inheres in our cultural products and the practices they effect. standing on the shoulders of giants and all...

MDAO said:
By this logic, we could very well create (or maybe have already created) a computer which possesses a form of self-awareness, but we could probably not create a form of artificial intelligence that recognized us as its creators and grasped the hardware and software engineering that undergirded its sentience.

In rigorous epistemological terms, yeah, that's true. However, it could potentially comprehend that these causal agents created it (if endowed with some sort of sensory-connection outside itself), and it could possibly grasp that it is a program, as we grasp that the embodied neural system plays a central role in effecting experience. But this raises an interesting question: how would this AI's experience of its own code differ from our fleeting attempts to experience our own?


I'm too tired to come up with any famous writer or public intellectual's name for this concept, but I'm much taken with the idea that time could be a Moebius strip, whereby technology advances to the point where we build an enormous computer like the Matryoshka Brain

I don't think that he invented it, but Charles Stross is partial to this trope.

Or a simulation within a simulation. Or if there ever was a naturally-evolved world in the first place, as opposed to an endless (or at least very long) regress of simulations within simulations.

I'm actually having some difficulty pinning down how exactly "simulations" differ from "realities", just in basic ontological terms.

ebola
 
Surviving comes first, prior to understanding of the universe. So far no human being managed to survive, they all died. We all die when we're 80. How can you understand the universe, if you're dead? First we must solve the death problem and become immortal, and once that worry is off our shoulders we can worry about something else. What humans are doing is going one step ahead of themselves. Imagine how easy science would have evolved if Einstein was still among us. Death, is what holds us back and until that's not dealt with, there will be no progress or understanding of anything.

Physical immortality would be a curse for humanity. We rely on the cycle of death and birth to bring renewed knowledge and understanding. Human historical paradigms would be much, much longer if people lived for even 500 years. It's true that when people die we lose the good, but we also lose the bad. At least death brings change.

I think humanity would stagnate if all the upper echelon of society never died out to be replaced by new blood. For all we know we would be dealing with immortals who never change their values.
 
Indeed. I wouldn't want "Grandpa doesn't like the 'Spanish people' moving into the neighborhood" replaced with "Grandpa thinks that heretical heliocentrists should be excommunicated and physically banished".

ebola
 
I like to philosophize or debate with others about many different things, but mostly I like to philosophize about what happens after we die.


As a Christian, I do believe in Heaven, but what exactly heaven IS is what boggles me. I understand the pearl gates and gold streets part, I understand it's where God's true believers and followers go after death or the end of days and that it's the only place we'll ever see the face of God, but what exactly IS it?

And then there's the reincarnation concept that fascinates me. If I were to be reincarnated as anything I wanted, it would be a fat ass house cat with a loving owner. No, I'm not joking. No, I don't want to be something grand, and majestic or something special and important. I just want to be something simple, with means to be happy. But of course, with most concepts of reincarnation you are reincarnated as something that is the equivalent of your actions in your previous life on Earth, or in the "Universe." If I had to hypothesize about what I would be incarnated as in my next life, I would say I would be a butterfly. Something pretty and nice to look at, but very fragile and has a short life expectancy.
 
when you poop you can release bad thoughts, in a material aspect and flush it, into the world we stand on
 
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