Fancy a Drink? If Alcohol Were Reported Fairly...

[Wenlock]

No, all is normal. You are the same cunt you woke up as.

Why are you so bitter against people that (seemingly) have their shit together? I have nothing against OTW, though his posts do sometimes come across as one-up-manship (to me), you take time out to berate him. Genuine question.

 

[One Thousand Words]

He wants to sex me but I turned him down to be honest wenlock

 

[steewith2ees]

Alcohol can cause things worse than death.

Ever seen anyone with Korsakoff's syndrome ?

Fucking shocking. Used to look after a guy who was once a loving family man from the North. Booze got the better of him and he disappeared off the radar for a few years then was found in a shed down here in the south.
Korsakoff's syndrome left him in residential care for the rest of his life.
Goldfish memory span, couldnt wipe his own arse or shave, just shuffled round the home hands shaking, by the end the only words he ever said were "got a light mate" or "got a fag mate"

http://www.alzheimers.org.uk/site/scripts/documents_info.php?documentID=98

From the link above :

"Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome is diagnosed in about one in eight people with alcoholism (a dependency on, or addiction to, alcohol). Evidence shows that the condition is present in about 2 per cent of the general population. It is more common among people in deprived communities."



2%

Were 2% of the population left retarded by AMT, 6apb or AL-Lad ?
I doubt even drone could compete with that statistic

Thiis is the bain of my life. My mother suffers from Wernickes Encephalopathy. My father and I look after her 24/7 and I wish I was dead on most of the days I cant get fucked. The illness has robbed my mother and left a vicious, violent demanding 3 year old in her place.

 

[Vurtual]

Well, so what? lol The article says Alcohol is the second most dangerous drug there is. Which is nothing but a blatant lie.

Did you not see the nutt graph above (published and peer reveiwed in the lancet) - alcohol is the most dangerous according to that. Have you got better data than david nutt?

 

[Eveleivibe]

Well, so what? lol The article says Alcohol is the second most dangerous drug there is. Which is nothing but a blatant lie. Sure, maybe it's more addictive than cocaine in some other questionable study, but that's not at all relevant to the fabricated attempt to falsely demonise the drug for being far more deadly in comparison to other drugs than it actually is.



Well, it really tells you something when an article has to make up very bad lies to support it's claim. It makes the Daily mail look reliable.




lol ok! sorry

*fucks off*

Alcohol is physically addicting. Cocaine isn't. Alcohol WDs can kill you. Cocaine comedown can't. Alcohol is more accessible n more socially misleading than cocaine, leading to easier accessibility.

Because of the sociable acceptability of alcohol as opposed to the stigma n weariness of using cocaine, people are more likely to abuse it n thus there's a higher probability of a person becoming addicted to it or at least a habitual user / binge drinker. Alcohol is often done publicly, openly with many peoples. Cocaine is more likely to be done discretely. Because of the illegality if cocaine n thus no safety advice from governments it may be possible that users could come to harm whilst using the substance, however Less accessibility n social unacceptance compared with alcohol probably means more people will be addicted to alcohol than are to cocaine.

Obviously without all variables being the same, one cannot properly makes an accurate comparison but estimation based on facts given. However, discussing the distinction between addiction to that of alcohol from that of cocaine, is like arguing about the end of time n whether or not it'll ever end, if there ever is one. You'll never know the answers yet it's fascinating n intriguing to discuss n think about, all the same.

Must we insult one anothers' effects with things like "what a load of shite?" I think Si Dread has gone to effert here n generated an interesting discussion. Good on ye, Dread

Evey

 

[Si Dread]

Well, so what? lol The article says Alcohol is the second most dangerous drug there is. Which is nothing but a blatant lie. Sure, maybe it's more addictive than cocaine in some other questionable study, but that's not at all relevant to the fabricated attempt to falsely demonise the drug for being far more deadly in comparison to other drugs than it actually is.

That is MY questionable study you're referring to there mate. Why not actually read it? Here. I cut the whole thing out for you! No need to click links!

It's often pointed out to those who wish to have drink more stringently controlled that only a small percentage of people who drink actually get into trouble with alcohol & that the vast majority enjoy alcohol responsibly. That may be the case, but what percentage is that? What percentage of alcohol drinkers have a problem with booze?

... in comparison, what percentage of drugs users are likely to end up with a problem of some sort because of their drugs use?

Let's assume that addiction is an indication that a particular substance is potentially harmful.

Drinkaware claims that just under 4% of women drinkers & just under 9% of men drinkers become addicted to alcohol. That's not to suggest that addiction is the only problem associated with alcohol, but for the sake of comparative argument, let's roll with that - http://www.drinkaware.co.uk/underst...ol-dependent?gclid=CM7ZjNCdjMYCFWXLtAodzzsAIQ

As addiction is rarely an issue for users of drugs such as LSD or MDMA, it's difficult to replicate the alcohol stats for general drugs use, so I've decided to focus on a drug with similar attributes to alcohol. Cocaine. I did not choose to compare alcohol to heroin because although heroin produces more fatalities than cocaine, it is not used in a social context the way both alcohol & cocaine are. It seems fairer to compare two highly addictive & harmful substances, one legal & one not, that are both used in similar contexts.

According to this Wiki page, around 5-6% of cocaine users become addicted to the drug. Cocaine is often described as being powerfully addictive, yet according to these statistics less users of cocaine become addicted to coke than alcohol drinkers to alcohol - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_dependencehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocaine_dependence

If you were to look at MDMA instead of cocaine, I'd be surprised if you found that even a single percent of users became addicted or used the drug problematically. I wouldn't know what percentage of MDMA users die suddenly compared to the percentage of alcohol users who die suddenly but I'll try find out. With something like LSD you'd struggle to find anyone using the drug regularly enough to be problematic & the percentage of users who die from the drug compared to those who die using alcohol is not comparable, because LSD does not kill anyone. Cannabis might prove to be equally addictive as alcohol, but addiction to smoking cannabis is extremely unlikely, provided it is not smoked with tobacco, to cause the kinds of physical harms associated with long-term alcohol addiction.

Psychological risk of some sort is present with all drugs & alcohol is no different. I don't see any reason to argue this point.

So, finally, if we assume that the stats are accurate in those above links & that addiction to a particular substance is at least some indication of it's likelihood to cause harm, then with 9% of alcohol users becoming addicted & only 6% of (powerfully addictive) cocaine users becoming addicted, it looks as if alcohol is about twice as likely to be harmful as cocaine. Drugs use generally is not as harmful as cocaine use, so I would say that alcohol is probably at least twice as dangerous as using drugs like cocaine, & perhaps even 100's of times more dangerous in comparison to using drugs such as cannabis, MDMA or LSD.

Well, it really tells you something when an article has to make up very bad lies to support it's claim. It makes the Daily mail look reliable.

It's supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek. Are you short a funny bone or two?

Thiis is the bain of my life. My mother suffers from Wernickes Encephalopathy. My father and I look after her 24/7 and I wish I was dead on most of the days I cant get fucked. The illness has robbed my mother and left a vicious, violent demanding 3 year old in her place.

Shit man, I had no idea. You are doing a great service to your mum & you will be glad that you did so in time

When I read a genuine post like this, it puts the rather ignorant ones into distant perspective. This one is worth replying to. Theirs were not.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Sorry to hear that, Stee xxxx

Evey

 

[Si Dread]

Later peeps, I'm off to work. After work I plan a casual beer & a frozen Jagarmeister chaser in a fancy wine bar, then I'm going to drive home carefully in a Lamborghini or something, & make up some stuff on the internet to make myself sound more interesting than I am

 

[Eveleivibe]

Later peeps, I'm off to work. After work I plan a casual beer & a frozen Jagarmeister chaser in a fancy wine bar, then I'm going to drive home carefully in a Lamborghini or something, & make up some stuff on the internet to make myself sound more interesting than I am

That's a bit hypocritical. You've just made a thread slagging off alcohol now you're going to have a drink?

Evey

 

[ScotchMist]

Hahaha :D

 

[Si Dread]

Evey I plan to bathe myself to death in the stuff

Hey I love alcohol lol What I'm doing is illustrating to the less enlightened that it is not all peaches & cream, alcohol is deadly poisonous & highly addictive. That the illegality of drugs is wholly unfair, racist, xenophobic & irrational & that because of the obvious dangers of alcohol & tobacco, drugs cannot possibly be illegal out of concern for our lives or our health. Drugs are illegal out of some sort of twisted morality that permits those with this morality to sit watching while their laws kill our people.

I am trying to foster dissent against those with this twisted morality & alcohol is these peoples fuel!

 

[Raasyvibe]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2009/nov/03/david-nutt-drugs-policy

Relevant.

Sorry did I swear at Raas? Can't cunting think why.

Did you not see the nutt graph above (published and peer reveiwed in the lancet) - alcohol is the most dangerous according to that. Have you got better data than david nutt?

Both studies are completely besides the point. I was referring to the ARTICLE IN QUESTION. Not the Guardian, Not Professor Nutt. And the article in question, is, as I previously stated: a load of shite - or to put it more eloquently; completely flawed because it selectively chooses it's data.

If you want to make a thread about the Guardian article or professor Nutt go ahead and i'll critique them if necessary; but this thread didn't even mention them. I assume you are diverting attention away from the discussed article and onto these other studies, as you can also see, the article is completely flawed.

It's supposed to be a bit tongue in cheek. Are you short a funny bone or two?

While it attempts to make fun of the prohibition, it tries to make a real point that the prohibition is in itself unjustified - and it does this with - as I said previously - completely flawed data. Now, whether you think they're making up facts to be funny, or they've just presented misinformation due to some kind of partiality on the subject - I'm glad we both certainly agree, the article is nonsense and cannot be taken seriously.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Evey I plan to bathe myself to death in the stuff

Hey I love alcohol lol What I'm doing is illustrating to the less enlightened that it is not all peaches & cream, alcohol is deadly poisonous & highly addictive. That the illegality of drugs is wholly unfair, racist, xenophobic & irrational & that because of the obvious dangers of alcohol & tobacco, drugs cannot possibly be illegal out of concern for our lives or our health. Drugs are illegal out of some sort of twisted morality that permits those with this morality to sit watching while their laws kill our people.

I am trying to foster dissent against those with this twisted morality & alcohol is these peoples fuel!

In order for them to disprove you they have to show evidence or they like idiots with their insults. Just ask for their evidence. Anyone can say something is shit.
Some people just want drama.

Evey

 

[Si Dread]

While it attempts to make fun of the prohibition, it tries to make a real point that the prohibition is in itself unjustified - and it does this with - as I said previously - completely flawed data. Now, whether you think they're making up facts to be funny, or they've just presented misinformation due to some kind of partiality on the subject - I'm glad we both certainly agree, the article is nonsense and cannot be taken seriously.

How is the data inaccurate? Have they just pulled a load of false information out their arse to make an amusing point? Oh My God, how incomprehensible of them! Good thing some people have the smarts & can see the funny side eh? If they have done that then prove it! If you can take that time to post your reply, why not actually indicate exactly what it is about this "flawed" piece that's bothering you so?

The other studies do seem to support the basic premise, that alcohol is, according to the reports I posted, considerably more dangerous & addictive than at least one highly addictive illegal drug. If (IF) the laws against drugs are actually for our own well-being & not out of some fucked up, misplaced morality it strikes me as extraordinary that they remain illegal given the harms caused by legal drugs such as alcohol & tobacco & that legal markets & places where drugs are decriminalised have safer drugs users.

 

[smackydowners]

I'm catching a 2 flight tonight, will likely smash beers and or gins in the lounge and on the plane. I hopefully won't lose my shit and try and storm the cockpit.

Tomorrow I plan on cocktails while sitting in the Sun ( which will likely kill me before alcohol does)

OTW, have you ever considered that you might be an alcoholic?

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Both studies are completely besides the point. I was referring to the ARTICLE IN QUESTION. Not the Guardian, Not Professor Nutt.

If you want to make a thread about the Guardian article or professor Nutt go ahead and i'll critique them if necessary; but this thread didn't even mention them.

Look at the thread title Raas. "If alcohol were reported fairly". Look what I posted. Can you see why an article about the non-reporting of a drug, alcohol, might be relevant, the one word I used, in a thread about 'if alcohol were reported fairly'?

No obfuscation here.

 

[Vurtual]

Both studies are completely besides the point. I was referring to the ARTICLE IN QUESTION. Not the Guardian, Not Professor Nutt...

(sigh) You said: "Well, so what? lol The article says Alcohol is the second most dangerous drug there is. Which is nothing but a blatant lie. "

I responded to that by showing evidence from nutty boy that it isn't a blatant lie but probably a pretty solid fact, even a slight understatement - maybe Si's 'article' happened upon this fact coincidentally (i don't think so - it's a pretty well known 'fact') - either way it's considerably more than a blatant lie. Capiche?

 

[Raasyvibe]

Look at the thread title Raas. "If alcohol were reported fairly". Look what I posted. Can you see why an article about the non-reporting of a drug, alcohol, might be relevant, the one word I used, in a thread about 'if alcohol were reported fairly'?

No obfuscation here.

It wasn't relevant to my comment as I was slating the actual article which displayed wrong data to prove it's point. And you were trying to justify your infamous "fuck bits" with that story which I was not evaluating

(sigh) You said: "Well, so what? lol The article says Alcohol is the second most dangerous drug there is. Which is nothing but a blatant lie. "

I responded to that by showing evidence from nutty boy that it isn't a blatant lie but probably a pretty solid fact, even a slight understatement - maybe Si's 'article' happened upon this fact coincidentally (i don't think so - it's a pretty well known 'fact') - either way it's considerably more than a blatant lie. Capiche?

Although he's nuttin' to do with the article, I can see why you now bought it up. When I said the article lied about it's demonization of alcohol, it was because it drew it's facts from very twisted figures. In regards to nutty's experiment where alcohol is considered the second most dangerous recreational drug, it's nut really relevant as it can be entirely negated in 2 words:

NSFW:

Crack, heroin

How is the data inaccurate? Have they just pulled a load of false information out their arse to make an amusing point? Oh My God, how incomprehensible of them! Good thing some people have the smarts & can see the funny side eh? If they have done that then prove it! If you can take that time to post your reply, why not actually indicate exactly what it is about this "flawed" piece that's bothering you so?

I've already done that Mr Dread. Look i'll requote it for you especially.

According to federal data, alcohol is already the second deadliest drug in the country — topped only by another legal substance called "tobacco," which causes an astonishing 480,000 deaths each year by some estimates and 540,000 by others.

No other drug comes close to the staggering fatalities of these two

That's because they are both legal, and subsequently available and used by a drastically higher percentage of the population. How incredibly blind, to present those figures without taking into account the proportionate levels of consumption.

The other studies do seem to support the basic premise, that alcohol is, according to the reports I posted, considerably more dangerous & addictive than at least one highly addictive illegal drug

OK, it might be more addictive than one illegal drug. And i could probably add a few more to your list. But, so what? The article suggests it's more dangerous than ALL and that was what I was contesting.

 

[Vurtual]

Although he's nuttin' to do with the article, I can see why you now bought it up. When I said the article lied about it's demonization of alcohol, it was because it drew it's facts from very twisted figures. In regards to nutty's experiment where alcohol is considered the second most dangerous recreational drug, it's nut really relevant as it can be entirely negated in 2 words:

Crack, heroin

Alcohol was number 1 - above crack and heroin by quite a margin. Did you not see the chart? Did you not understand what the research said? 'Harm to users' (by definition, per person) is higher for alcohol than heroin and crack - if you disagree, take it up with nut and the lancet

Here you go:

done

CORRECTION: Sorry, i should have checked the details of that graph before waffling - i assumed that the dark 'harm to users' bar overlapped the other bar, but after looking it up i don't think they do (seems so obvious now, doh!) - from the paper: http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(10)61462-6/abstract

Findings

MCDA modelling showed that heroin, crack cocaine, and metamfetamine were the most harmful drugs to individuals (part scores 34, 37, and 32, respectively), whereas alcohol, heroin, and crack cocaine were the most harmful to others (46, 21, and 17, respectively). Overall, alcohol was the most harmful drug (overall harm score 72), with heroin (55) and crack cocaine (54) in second and third places.

Squinting at the graph i think alcohol is probably 4th most dangerous to users after heroin crack and methamphetamine. (the chart still stands overall in today's reality, but the 'harm to others' category will be affected by availability/legality (though increased harm would balance a bit with better education/harm reduction)). Apologies for previous unjustified pontifications ('what, all of them' i hear you ask...)

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

And you were trying to justify your infamous "fuck bits"

I assure you I gave up trying to justify my fuck bits about 30 years ago. I know when I'm fighting a losing battle.