Faith, Sins, Heaven, Hell, Forgiveness. What is actually real? Where are our Morals?

[Afghan_Tourist]

I recently had a conversation about life, faith, religion, and the universe in general with a few different people at a party I went to recently...

My own belief is that within every religion, there are basic principles of morality that are conveyed along with certain characteristics unique to each that differentiate say Islam from Christianity.
I also believe heavily in Karma because it makes myself believe that any action I commit can have an infinite amount of outcomes, therefore I have to always chose what is first right for myself, and secondly helpful to everybody involved or the least damaging to all. If it is only negative, that would bring about negative to everybody else and I do it for selfish reasons, I will only end up worsening myself in the future.

Within any religious principles this concept of Karma exists indirectly, but it is always there... Usually in the form of sins that will in turn be punishable in the afterlife... I find this too simplistic as people will always find a way around basic rules to sin & repent safely.
Example: I've heard of Punjabi muslims in Pakistan who drink alcohol & have sex with hookers or have relationships, or cheat on their wives. They believe after the Friday prayer their sins are forgiven. After Ramazan & fasting for a month, almost all sins are forgiven.

I don't understand this concept because what is the point of even following these rules if you can be forgiven anyway? (This type of Ideology of sinning & being forgiven so easily) is a concept that can basically make a person completely immoral and throw out the lesson those rules were trying to teach in the first place?

Something like: "Do not commit Adultery." followed by "If you fast for Ramazan & goto the Mosque for Friday prayer, you will be cleansed of your sins" is inherintly wrong because it allows somebody to break that rule without consequence. (In their mind, nevermind being caught by family or their spouse)
Maybe I've been taught these lessons wrong but this is basically what I gather from this form of thinking:
"Why not cheat on your spouse when you can be forgiven after a year, praying, and fasting? It'd be like nothing happened, so long as I get away with it!"


The same concept can be given to Christan's who believe confessing their sins will rid them of the weight those sins carried.



Sure these things will help a person psychologically deal with comitting a sin, or intentionally hurting another person, but the bottom line is that each of them allow these things to happen, yet it gives them the right to scold people of other beliefs/cultures for doing the exact same thing...



I'm sure there are groups that do not believe in forgiveness, and are more hardlined. I know there are, simply confessing or praying will not fix those 'sins'... But these groups are more often than not so extreme that they end up being dysfunctional amongst the global society & cause more problems by ignoring a sense of open-mindedness...

The greatest people I've met are those who have a faith, or don't, but have basic principles of good and bad based upon which they believe in. Those who have found the middle point between good & bad and can accept and understand both ends of the spectrum...

Would we even have this current faulty concept of extremely good/bad if religion as a concept, as a word, as anything was abolished? Could it be fixed with basic human rights being the global rule of law?

No matter what we do, it's all up to people themselves to learn, interpret, and teach what is better for the greater good, starting locally in their own community, to nationally, to globally... If their own morals & values do harm anywhere, than they will inevitably damage themselves with their choices after damaging another...

It's similar to one of the most basic rules from Physics which we learn "For every action their is an equal and opposite reaction."
That opposite reaction may not be direct digit for digit, but exerted or absorbed through other forces/mediums (Pushing against a wall, the walls strength will dictate when you pushing it will break through, but until it does you are being pushed back by the strength of the wall...)

Take that into the concept of morals, if your beliefs have the potential of damaging anything, you will more than likley end up causing that damage, to yourself, a family member, a friend, or somebody who you will never end up meeting... but who also is doing what you were doing...

All actions have consequences, and living a balanced life means you are neither giving too much and making somebody else greedy, or gaining so much that you are taking away from somebody who desperatley needs it...

But then that goes into ones own perception of where the balance sits... That's up to an individual to decide and nobody can teach them this... But those with these issues of wanting too much - money, sex, drugs, popularity, etc - always carry baggage...
Life isn't always perfect though and there are unique exceptions which can be on the far depressing scale with no ups, to the very joyful scale with no downs...
We cannot control other's fates, but we can control our own... Following a good set of morals and being open to new concepts helps in attaining happiness within oneself...

 

[fridgebuzz]

You too can have eternal life, so long as you give money to the church.

 

[hiphophippy]

Realizing morality is a social construct created to keep sheeple in order while they were(still are) not allowed/not afforded the education or resources to realize the false roots and string tugging that make them behave like everyone else.

 

[Busty St Clare]

My moral compass doesn't need a book full of chapters. i generally live by the mantra of "Do not harming others" and "Leave no footprint". It works if I am socialising in a city or by myself camping in the wild.

 

[panic in paradise]

Maybe you just aren't forgiven and its a test to see how far you are willing to loop around the rules to fuck a hooker and kill your neighbor.

this isnt too far off.

the souls desires are so strong that no matter what it is, even a 'saturday after noon drive for icecream and ice water', can become a reason full of meaning for the soul to wish to remain on earth. every established religion is quite aware of this and can and/or does use this to their advantage by creating a machine of nostalgia/forgiveness which reminds the soul of previous passions, and its connection to the creator; the draw has been embedded into the psyche and chakra system.

there are now many more ways then ever to transgress into an object of desire rather then transcend with individual needs that remain ignored, driving less to ascend or more to descend...hence yhe population booms.

it is easy to feel that You(soul) have sinned, and the Spirit(i) then recognizing that feeling will often seek to repent by doing what it has come to know as redeeming, and that is most often to find for the first time, again, the glory of that church and all the gratification and forgiveness that comes with this discovery.


the chakra system is what holds these urges, and the urges becoming built up over time can manifest itself as pain or disease in the area of blockage.

 

[Foreigner]

God, the Divine, Nature, the Universe, Emptiness - whatever you want to call it - is pure love and connection. It always exists and you are always accepted by it. There is nothing to forgive because it was never mad at you, or holding a grudge.

Hell was invented by humans to control people, along with the notions of vengeful, capricious Gods. It's all a lie. The Abrahamic faiths are damn liars with zero credibility anymore. Never let anyone tell you that you're going to hell. Hell does not exist, except in the minds of men - and it's a self-created delusion. You are always connected to God and welcomed into the kingdom of Heaven no matter what it is you do in this life.

 

[rangrz]

All actions have consequences

But many actions, and the consequences thereof are trivial and of no identifiable importance to anything.. Not to mention it can be very difficult to predict the outcome of any given action due to the emergent properties of complex systems, which implies that sometimes a "bad" action will lead to a "good" outcome and vice versa. Which makes the idea of absolute moral codes seem invalid, as they WILL create situations where being "moral" will lead to worse outcome then being "immoral"

Whatever the fuck those two terms even mean. i.e. the vast majority of times one has sex with a hooker will produce no bad outcome, and the bad outcomes are often dependent on things other then merely having sex with a hooker. Such that having sex with a hooker does not imply a bad outcome, it is neither a necessary nor sufficient condition for a bad outcome.