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Evangelist preacher denies hell

CoffeeDrinker

CoffeeDrinker

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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2065080-1,00.html

This article describes how a popular pastor, Rob Bell, put out a new book Love Wins: A Book about Heaven, Hell, and the fate of Every Person who Ever Lived that challenges the basic Evangelical premise that accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior is the only way to get into heaven. He also challenges the entire concept of Hell itself.
This has, predictably, earned the scorn of many traditional or conservative Evangelicals, but it's a view that is gaining popularity, as evidenced by his church's growing numbers. His services average 7000 people every Sunday.

The quote that I find interesting in the Aarticle is from one of his detractors:, calling the work "theologically disatrous" R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary basically stated Bell's position for him, "When you adopt universalism and erase the distinction between the church and the world," says Mohler, "then you don't need the church, and you don't need Christ, and you don't need the cross. This is the tragedy of nonjudgmental mainline liberalism, and it's Rob Bell's tragedy in this book too."
He has a problem with changing the common understanding of salvation so much that Christianity becomes more of an ethical habit of mind than a faith based on divine revelation.

This in my opinion, is exactly why Bell's work is inspiring. Why should you need these dead and archaic symbols in orer to achieve salvation? Why shouldn't your spirituality be an ethical habit of mind rather than simply taking something "on faith"? What is accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior "on faith" anyway? It seems to me that it's just fervently stating and restating a simple sentence over and over, out loud and in your head.
what is that really achieving?

Anyways, I thought the article was very interesting, and I might just want to attend church again if there were more pastors like him.
 
there was a catholic priest (i believe) who had a similar break from ideology, and he was promptly released from his church, though he said he has plans to start a new one. iirc it was in italy. even religion has to evolve sometimes ;)
 
heh

i can totally agree with a lot of Evangelist theorem - Evangelism and Scientology always pop up near the top when i take those ' whats your "religion" quiz things '. more then half of their belief system it seems take the thoughts right out of my head - but then i get swayed off.

Scientology though, if i had to describe my beliefs in Key terms, "Scientology" would surely be one...
and Universalism, the Aeons are worthy no???, Evangelism as well absolutely.
it can become confusing;-p


but,,, i dint need anyone to tell me that.
 
yeah it seems like people are too concerned about doing things right, than doing the right thing.

and with religion, expecially christianit, it seems like its all a show. people are so concerned with how they look in society. it seems as though they took the spirituality out of religion.
 
It sounds like someone is trying to rein in agnostics that are on the fence between Christianity and atheism. However, this preacher should realize that Hell isn't the only reason why many agnostics consider Christianity a religion based on half-truths, fear, and forgeries...
 
Nothing new form Pastor Bell?

In my opinion Pastor Bell is doing nothing new. Distortion of the Bible is nothing new.
Again in my opinion Pastor Bell flatters himself that he shall escape it (HELL).
He is choosing to depend upon himself for his own security. It seems he believes that what he has done, what he intends to do, and what he is doing now is what is needed in order to escape. He fancies himself that he has laid out matters better for his own escape than others who have died and gone to hell.
It is clear Pastor Bell has no intention of coming into the place of torment.

This is my opinion, I disagree with him and do find his preaching to be in direct contradiction to the truth. However this is what makes America great he and I can have different views.

I read the Time article you suggested and found it interesting. Plus read more about Pastor Bell. Thank you I always enjoy reading differing ideas and thoughts.
 
I find it curious how so many christians appear to be oblivious to the very basic teachings of their saviour, and are even willing to quarrel amongst each other to defend their ignorance.

Hell was never an integral part of Christianity. There is nothing about hell in the bible (in my limited knowledge). I am aware of mentions of "death" and "eternal damnation", though both are (AFAIK) understood as being distance from God, not as a multi-layered hadic realm where bad people go after they die to be tortured.

Such ideas were introduced in the middle-ages, probably imported from Nordic pagan (!) mythology (the word "Hell" is derrived from the Norse "Hel" I believe) and likely later developed by adding allegory from Hellenistic mythology. The latter part makes sense to me, since the bible was written mostly in Koine and all the words available in that language for describing the states mentioned above probably carried with them connotations of Greek folklore, such as tartarus, etc.

It was elaborated in the late-middle ages by people like Dante Alighieri - however that was done entirely and explicitly as allegory.

It is only the backwards-thinking, vulgar brutes of the modern world who mistake the progressive, sophisticated allegorical-thought of medieval times as literal teaching. How sad it is to see supposedly-enlightened people today debating hell - something that whose existence was not meant to be debated when it was expounded...
 
^
i dont mind, having the idea of hell out there caaan be a good thing.!-haha


a simple example:
if i was to be in a place of worship, and meditating sending thoughts and what not to the UnderWorld, and the Gods&Goddess's there-of... i could imagine a hehe-"Denominated" faith or Religious ideologist praying to my right, fearing the "UnderWorld" as a place a sulfur and suffering.

meanwhile...;-) there might be a 'Devil-Worshiper' knelled to my left, worshiping the "UnderWorld", envisioning the Devil reaching and speaking to them.


with this thought, it seems the two swayed sides only part the way(or water) exposing what lies beneath.
);-p

alleluia



________________________________________
"Hence, allegory, etc."
oh ,, lol...
:\

... gets back to reading.
 
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I think pastor Bell's foray into Universalism is only newsworthy because of how much that theology is anathema to Evangelicals.

The idea of Universal salvation goes back a long way in Christianity, Origen of Alexandria (fl.) early 3rd Century was anathemised (later reinstated in the 5th Century) for his Universalist theology.

The denial of Hell, in Universalist Theology is a more modern accretion. The ante-Nicence fathers had an exegetically underdetermined concept of Hell. Most probably as the body of writings that were to become the apocryphal and canonical apokalupsis (The Revelation of John the Divine) was taken by the Ante-Nicene Father's to depict the coming Eschaton, only later was it viewed as a portrayal of Hell.

Such ideas were introduced in the middle-ages, probably imported from Nordic pagan (!) mythology (the word "Hell" is derrived from the Norse "Hel" I believe) and likely later developed by adding allegory from Hellenistic mythology. The latter part makes sense to me, since the bible was written mostly in Koine and all the words available in that language for describing the states mentioned above probably carried with them connotations of Greek folklore, such as tartarus, etc.
Click to expand...

Jamshyd is quite right in the development of the diachronic description of Hell, largely based on Nordic, Germanic and or Northern European pagan imagery. Paganism being the direct competitor of Christianity, became literally 'demonised', giving the satyr-like imagery of the Devil and His minions. Whilst the Eastern church adopted imagery such as the Hierophant.


The satyr-like hermaphrodite Baphomet, once a esoteric symbol of the 'perennial philosophy', the image was co-opted by the church and literally demonised:

baphomet-e1270080262176.gif
 
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Right the fact that he's an influential Evangelical is why it's newsworthy. That's why I posted it.
I hope he gives America the spiritual spark it's been waiting for to transform this wasteland of ignorance into something worthwhile again. The potential is there. Then again the potential for a lot is there...
It's just such a shame to see such nice people like the majority of rank and file Evangelicals have such ugly sides when it comes to their religion. I hope his message spreads like wildfire.
 
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