ethylphenidate´s pharmacology

[till101]

hi,
i can´t believe that there are no studies about it´s toxicity and other pharmacologic aspects from any pharma company.
maybe some chemist students here could find something about it in the literatures ?
also do you expect it to have the same pharmacologic profil ?
i searched the alot and all i could find is that there is little ethylphenidate in the blood of persons who did alcohol and methylphenidate and that 2 persons died because of an overdose of that combinations.
but they can´t say anything about it´s toxicity.
to me it seems relative save in comparison to mdma, amphetamine and methamphetamine, doesn´t it ?
what could it be splitted to in the body ?

thanks

 

[negrogesic]

With RC grade ethylphenidate, the toxicity of the compound in a pure state is convoluted by issues of impurity, authenticity, contaminates, etc.

Even with a 'pure' sample, there is the issue of acute toxicity from mishandling such a potent stimulant (ie, overdose, stimulant psychosis, etc).

In respect to long-term use neurotoxicity, I wouldn't expect it to differ significantly from methylphenidate. However, seeing that no legitimate formulations of ethylphenidate exist, there will inherently be a greater incidence of toxic 'manifestations' in those abusing these potent powders (versus those abusing pharma MPH).

As to differences in pharmacological profile; look it up (data is available). If you can't understand/interpret the data, either learn how to do so, or reconsidering the using the drug.

By no means a rule, drugs such as MPH and other relative DNRI's are generally thought to be less 'neurotoxic' than some of the amphetamines (METH, etc), but again this is a general assumption. However, acute toxicity (overdose) is hypothetically the more serious concern when a patient has consumed X amount of white powder Y. Again, people using these powders are likely to encounter acute toxicity well before they are able to realize neurotoxicity from long-term, low-dose abuse.

 

[Nagelfar]

what could it be splitted to in the body ?

thanks

The metabolites are likely quite similar to MPH. It has less NE affinity and more DA affinity than MPH, so in my opinion that makes it safer and, simultaneously, more abusable (less physical stimulation while more reinforcement &/or propensity for habituation)

Polydrug intoxication is just that, and I doubt alcohol and MPH contribute to its efficacy. Overdose due to the live creation of EP having anything beyond a negligible impact from strain put on the body that those lone two chemicals of ethanol & methylphenidate don't do seems far fetched.

DRIs such as methyl/ethyl-phenidate are shown to actually have neuroprotective qualities (as opposed to DRAs like amphetamine); long time users having reduced risk of parkinsons and other dopaminergic degenerative disorders (DRAs doing the opposite and increasing instances of such related diseases and speeding, -no pun intended-, their onset). Now acute psychosis is possible with continual large dosing of both, but it reverses more quickly and more fully with DRIs over DRAs, which are more persistent, lasting, and even permanent degradation of cognitive faculties.

 

[till101]

thank you for both very useful answers.
i think i can get it very pure, but what could be the impurities ?
i could wash it, but i don´t think that could make it that much purer.

 

[hamhurricane]

Though everything negrogesic said is true. To be clear, EPH does not have a higher likelihood of containing impurities than anything else on the RC market and judging by the appearance of the material (medium sized transparent crystals) there is reason to believe it is better than some of the weird stuff that has been passed around in recent years (Jolly Green Granules et al.). I am not aware of any NMR or GC-MS performed on samples to really verify their purity but I do know someone who did a MP test and found a sharp MP that matched the literature.

 

[MagickalKat777]

Though everything negrogesic said is true. To be clear, EPH does not have a higher likelihood of containing impurities than anything else on the RC market and judging by the appearance of the material (medium sized transparent crystals) there is reason to believe it is better than some of the weird stuff that has been passed around in recent years (Jolly Green Granules et al.)

That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen on BL outside of the "ED" forum... There have been many times that product sent out from labs has been FAR less than what was expected (up to and including less than 10% of the ingredient desired, yet still including other active ingredients) and this is from REPUTABLE labs that previously turned out great product... Oh and crystals can be contaminated as well - crystallization does not indicate purity as long as the chemicals mixed in have the ability to bind to themselves - I would imagine that ethyl and methyl can crystallize together quite easily and so can some of their precursors.

As for the OP - test it at your own risk. Like any other research chemical, this one has the risk of being contaminated and/or being toxic on its own. Start small, work your way up. As has been said if it is *REAL* material, it should "on paper" be less dangerous than methylphenidate because of lower peripheral stimulation but in the end you have to be the guinea pig, as with all research chemicals. Proceed with caution.

 

[till101]

but what could the impurities be from the synth ?

 

[Burn it up]

Well, it's funny that you guys are talking about this right now, because just yesterday I got the results of the GC/MS from a sample of ethylphenidate I bought from a well known vendor.

It seems that there is an important ammount of Ethyl phenylacetate. This substance is a precursor used in the synthesis of ethylphenidate.


I know it's against the board rules to post sources. But I don't know if this is a case in which we should do it for risk reduction issues. This is a very famous vendor which I am sure many people have bought from. It's a serious concern because some other samples I tested using GC/MS are cut with other active compounds such as caffeine, various cannabinoids and substances which could not be determined.


Well, back to the topic, apparently this ethyl phenylacetate is used in the perfume industry to give a sweet odour. It is irritant to the skin (which might explain why some people are feeling an intense burn when snorting ethylphenidate). The LD50 in rats is of 3300mg/kg. I suppose that if it is used in the perfume industry is should not be toxic, carcinogenic or neurotoxic, but I really don't know the consecuences of ingesting large ammounts along with ethylphenidate. If someone has any idea of the potential dangers of ingesting a considerable ammount of ethyl phenylacetate with your ethylphenidate please let us know.


Here you have the complete information about Ethyl phenylacetate: http://www.chemnet.com/cas/supplier...xact=dict&f=plist&mark=&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

 

[negrogesic]

I suppose that if it is used in the perfume industry is should not be toxic, carcinogenic or neurotoxic, but I really don't know the consecuences of ingesting large ammounts along with ethylphenidate.

If food-stuffs and pharmaceuticals can be toxic in all of these regards, why would perfumes be any different?

And as to grey-market ethylphenidate, I was not trying to suggest that these products were any more or less pure/authentic than their RC stimulant counterparts, because I have no knowledge to this effect. I was simply suggesting that it may be rather difficult to establish a toxicological profile.

 

[sekio]

Ethyl phenylacetate is an ester and shouldn't survive some of the final steps in preparation (i.e. gasification of the freebase by HCl)... even then it would be metabolically cleaved to ethanol and phenylacetic acid in the body, both fairly safe compounds at hundred-milligram levels. (Phenylacetate is the metabolite of phenethylamine, among other things. one endpoint of phenylalanine metabolism.) At the very worst it might make your e-phen smell like honey.

Fun Fact: Ethyl phenylacetate can be certified kosher. If a rabbi blesses it it can't be that bad, right?

What is an "important amount"? Are we talking percent, ppt, ppm? if your ethylphenidate is 10% ester crystals you should have a "talk" with your "supplier".

 

[hamhurricane]

That is one of the most ridiculous statements I have seen on BL outside of the "ED" forum... There have been many times that product sent out from labs has been FAR less than what was expected (up to and including less than 10% of the ingredient desired, yet still including other active ingredients) and this is from REPUTABLE labs that previously turned out great product...

Are you speaking English? What does "there have been many times that product sent out from labs has been FAR less than what was expected" even mean? Are you confused or just eager to get angry about something you don't understand? As I said very clearly there is no reason to assume EPH would be worse than anything else, particularly the numerous colored and flavored "blends" in circulation, I never said it was safe or even pure. Though it has a sharp MP matching the lit. which is indicative of purity. Obviously caution is advised with every chemical, grey market or otherwise, and I hope someone will quantify the ethylphenylacetate to determine its significance.

In my personal experience with the compound it is very active at a very low dose and without signs of physical toxicity.

 

[till101]

ok, but to summarise if you have pure stuff, the toxicologic profile is as safe as that of methylphenidate ?
@burn it up:
please send me youre email as pm, your mailbox is full

 

[hamhurricane]

Toxicity is unknown. The literature on the subject just repeatedly affirms that the toxicity is unknown. Contrary to what some people have posted previously on this forum the transesterfication of MPH to EPH when consumed with alcohol is not enantioselective and both D and L isomers are produced (K.S. Patrick et al. 2007) so, at the very least, it can be said that small quantities of it are not lethal. The only reason I can think of that it may be less toxic than MPH is that it has a reduced potency by weight. It should also be noted that the extremely high doses, which will inevitably be consumed, will result in unusually high concentrations of the active metabolite ritalinic acid, probably not a big deal but something to consider.

Questions about its acute toxicity will be answered in the coming months...

 

[till101]

to bad that i´m not studying chemistry. shouldn´t it have nearly the same metabolits, like you said for example ritalinic acid and there for the same toxic profil as mph ?
but wouldn´t the reduced potency would make it more toxic because of more metabolites for the same effect ?