Ethics of Online Pirating

[Busty St Clare]

The reason I download for free is I don't believe the true costs of producing an album or movie is consistent with the cost to the consumer. Poor quality mp3 from iTunes are not worth $1. The cost of an album has not changed much from the cost of a physical cd. Downloading an album eliminates the physical costs of producing the cd and packaging as well as zero shipping costs yet the cost of a cd is only a few dollars more. Even studio costs have dropped considerably in the past 20 with home production quality almost indistinguishable. Once upon a time the was real value in signing with a major label as they would pour invaluable money into marketing. We live in a different age now where a band has the power of the Internet to promote and garner interest at a level that millions of dollars could not guarantee. If you are good enough you can suceed before you have cut a full album. Music executives are wasteful middlemen whose value and usefulness has be super ceded.

Movies are another problem, but once again it comes down to perceived value. If a movie is good enough I will always make an effort to see it on the big screen. Home theatres still can't replace the experience of the cinema. Once again though the industry has to reassess its costs. Marketing budgets of tens of millions of dollars are common and there is often an indirect correlation to advertising budget and quality. There have been several "block busters" that had a marketing budget that almost matched their production costs. A big named star is also no guarantee of quality. I simply can't see justification in an actor receiving $10million for a movie that takes 3 months to film. If you want to cut costs there is a Good place to start. If the movie is successful then pay them a percentage of profits, it might stop some of the poor quality pulp that some big names seem to churn out on a yearly basis.

 

[shimazu]

I watch the movies because the trailers have the three parts I laugh at and I think "oh, maybe there will actually be more things that are funny besides what I just saw" and it winds up those are the only funny parts and the rest is a waste. I'm also a cynical bastard but still, the last good movie I saw was Pineapple Express. And that was like 3 years ago

err The Hangover came out in 09 that was the last one I really enjoyed

 

[XThexXTank]

Fuck those corporate greaseballs. Actors and singers should produce movies/music because they love what they do and want to share their creation with the world, not to make money

 

[Cyc]

I don't download many movies, but I do download TV shows because none of the cable companies offer me the select few shows I watch at a rate that reflects just how little TV I'm consuming. Why should I pay $29.99 for a 'basic package' and then another $15 for 'HBO Canada' which is just a crippled version of HBO? Then a bunch of misc. fees and taxes, and clunky menus and commercials and it's just a big technological step backwards from what is available to me through other means. I'm a consumer. My interest is in the best product offered for the most competitive price. You might say that's my role in the free market. That said, I do have a Netflix subscription (even though it's crippled too in Canada) because at least they are moving in the right direction and I do watch movies in theatres and see bands I love, and buy their swag.

Couple things also to consider..

1.) Ontario's media infrastructure is run by a private triopoly, a monster partially enabled by past governments. The current government tries to attract foreign investors and legislate competition, but the giants always seem to find ways to shut it down. As a result, we pay quite a bit more for internet, wireless and cable than the US.

2.) Our content regulation laws (how much 'Can-con' needs to be shown for example) is outrageous. For a country that considers itself a cultural mosaic, we sure do put a lot of restrictions on how much foreign content hits our shores. So it's impossible to get certain programming here (Syfy channel comes to mind) so the only option left is to pirate it. In this scenario, you deprive nobody of money since you ostensibly couldn't purchase it anyways.

I support the industry in my own way, not the way prescribed by luddites who can't keep up with the times because it doesn't fit their current lucrative business model.

 

[modern buddha]

Fuck those corporate greaseballs. Actors and singers should produce movies/music because they love what they do and want to share their creation with the world, not to make money

Fuck those greasy monkey wrench-holding mechanics. They should fix cars / trucks because they love what they do and want to share their expertise with the world, not to make money.

 

[moonyham]

Hey look at me, im intelligent, and i have the capability, by owning certain technology(a computer) and paying for a certain service(internet) which when there powers are combined, allow myself to gain every and any piece of data ever made that has been made public.

I take advantage of that ability, because im intelligent enough, wealthy enough, and most importantly because i can, and id be a stupid ass mother fucker not to take full advantage of such a great ability.

 

[alasdairm]

...im intelligent...there powers are combined...allow myself...

lolirony.

most importantly because i can

you can walk into any store and just take stuff! you can jimmy into a car that's not yours and drive off with it in less than 30 seconds!

free stuff, just waiting to be taken! you'd be pretty damn unintelligent to not take advantage of that. i mean, if you're paying for stuff these days, you're pretty damn stupid. but that's not the most important reason you should do it. you should do it simply because you can...



alasdair

 

[moonyham]

lolirony.
you can walk into any store and just take stuff! you can jimmy into a car that's not yours and drive off with it in less than 30 seconds!

free stuff, just waiting to be taken! you'd be pretty damn unintelligent to not take advantage of that. i mean, if you're paying for stuff these days, you're pretty damn stupid. but that's not the most important reason you should do it. you should do it simply because you can...



alasdair

Oh how ironic that im not pedantic about my spelling or grammar online. Har-har. *goofy retard face*

I can do those things yes, however i cant because i dont engage in behaviour that will land me in prison. Pirating will not land me in prison. So no, i cant just go stealing cars, because i value my freedom. However, i can pirate stuff, because it is no hinder to my freedom. Get it?

 

[alasdairm]

lol.

alasdair

 

[modern buddha]

Oh how ironic that im not pedantic about my spelling or grammar online. Har-har. *goofy retard face*

I can do those things yes, however i cant because i dont engage in behaviour that will land me in prison. Pirating will not land me in prison. So no, i cant just go stealing cars, because i value my freedom. However, i can pirate stuff, because it is no hinder to my freedom. Get it?

I think it is a hindrance to your freedom. Your individuality is at stake, I'd say. Your efforts for higher living (spiritual / mental / intellectual higher living, mind you) are squashed by the very tip of your finger clicking the "download" key.

 

[LuGoJ]

Oh how ironic that im not pedantic about my spelling or grammar online. Har-har. *goofy retard face*

I can do those things yes, however i cant because i dont engage in behaviour that will land me in prison. Pirating will not land me in prison. So no, i cant just go stealing cars, because i value my freedom. However, i can pirate stuff, because it is no hinder to my freedom. Get it?

So you don’t steal cars because you will get caught? Not because you find it morally objectionable? Awesome. How do you feel about burglary and mugging? Are those also off limits because you will get caught or do you feel those are morally unacceptable while stealing cars is morally acceptable?

I really hope I am reading your post wrong.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Stealing a car is different. You are taking something away that people need and actively use. This is simply accessing what's already been done. You aren't ruining anyone's day except for the RIAA's.

I think it is a hindrance to your freedom. Your individuality is at stake, I'd say. Your efforts for higher living (spiritual / mental / intellectual higher living, mind you) are squashed by the very tip of your finger clicking the "download" key.

Are you serious?
That's awfully presumptuous. The majority of stuff on youtube never generates actual revenue for the artists because its no different from the source of torrents: random people putting their music collections online. Does your righteousness make you examine every single song on youtube thoroughly to make sure its been properly sourced and permitted? For the sake of your soul do you only enjoy youtube videos that have followed all the necessary guidelines? If not, then you are helping to violate copyright laws in some way shape or form and have no room to talk. Your main argument is that you are still playing catch-up from your heyday as a limewire user, and so therefore everyone else must consume music at the same pace as you?

 

[LuGoJ]

Stealing a car is different. You are taking something away that people need and actively use. This is simply accessing what's already been done. You aren't ruining anyone's day except for the RIAA's.



Are you serious?
That's awfully presumptuous. The majority of stuff on youtube never generates actual revenue for the artists because its no different from the source of torrents: random people putting their music collections online. Does your righteousness make you examine every single song on youtube thoroughly to make sure its been properly sourced and permitted? For the sake of your soul do you only enjoy youtube videos that have followed all the necessary guidelines? If not, then you are helping to violate copyright laws in some way shape or form and have no room to talk. Your main argument is that you are still playing catch-up from your heyday as a limewire user, and so therefore everyone else must consume music at the same pace as you?

I never equated piracy to stealing cars, I was responding specifically to what that poster said in the quote. Like I said, I hope I am misreading it but he makes it sound like the only thing stopping him from stealing cars etc is that he knows he will go to jail.

"I can do those things yes, however i cant because i dont engage in behaviour that will land me in prison. Pirating will not land me in prison. So no, i cant just go stealing cars, because i value my freedom. However, i can pirate stuff, because it is no hinder to my freedom. Get it?"

 

[alasdairm]

Stealing a car is different. You are taking something away that people need and actively use.

well, attempts to draw parallels between the world of bytes and bytes and bricks and mortar often fall down.

moonyham's point was that he steals content because he can and the likelihood of being caught is low. if he did it correctly, he could steal a car (which he certainly could be able to - i.e. 'he can') and not get caught either. i believe that his rationalisation is ill-considered and his position inconsistent.

i'm proposing that, like so many people these days with a sense of entitlement, he just wants something for nothing and is being intellectually dishonest about his reasoning. but i'm just guessing - i'm obviously not as smart as he is

alasdair

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Yeah I can't help him there. Just accept that you are a thief and move on with your life. I know as a musician that thievery happens in many different shapes and sizes and it's been innocuously called "influence" so people can feel good about themselves. When it comes to popular music almost every melody and rhythm is a rearrangement of something else, so that liberty naturally extends to simply listening to songs that other people provide online for free.
I'm kinda in captainballs corner on this one, if an industry can't stop something so blatantly reducing their bottom line, then it's really hard to feel sorry for them.
It's kinda just like one giant library or archive. If I can get tons of free music from actually going to the library, is it unethical to burn those discs on my hardrive? That's why I have no qualms about accessing something that's so pervasive in our society.
When you are sold a CD, whose fault is it that the device you now own has capabilities that the vendors never wanted you to utilize? When you buy a CD it's yours to pop into any disc drive that you want, whether it's a computer or a CD player.

 

[L2R]

i always thought moony was a she, but anyway.

Fuck those greasy monkey wrench-holding mechanics. They should fix cars / trucks because they love what they do and want to share their expertise with the world, not to make money.

the arts are not on par with other goods and services in terms of either social justice or the economy. it is ONLY ENTERTAINMENT we're talking about here. speaking as a wannabe entertainer, this comparison just simply doesn't work. arts, while preferable, are not in any way essential. i support the creation of art, but not as a business. i think busty's note about budgets is a valid one. film budgets are fucking absurd.

if you choose to pursue an endeavour to create art, it is an expression of passion, not a job like others. if you can earn a basic crust by it, you benefit by being able to survive off of your passion, which no dollar figure can or should substitute. the nature of the industry is notoriously high risk, enter only those prepared to lose.



note: this thread is a question of ethics, not a call to incriminate yourself. simply stating that you download shit is not really on topic

 

[bagochina]

Your efforts for higher living (spiritual / mental / intellectual higher living, mind you) are squashed by the very tip of your finger clicking the "download" key.

oh god, lol. I can see the next ad campaign, you are a sinner as soon as you click the download button. 8(

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

arts, while preferable, are not in any way essential.

I gotta disagree with this even though I know what you are saying. Arts are an absolutely integral part of every society from the most repressive to the most open. Playing a tune might not help anyone get their car running, but that tune could ease a troubled mind or bring two people together, or do all sorts of tangible, non-abstract, things that actively improves lives.

This fact is another argument in favor of the importance of online piracy and why it's not on par with other types of stealing. Piracy improves almost everyone's life involved, including the actual musicians who are now getting exposed on previously unheard of levels. I'm not going to deny that it affects negatively many people involved on the production and distribution of the media, but that's obviously why it's a relevant debate.

 

[L2R]

ok, i agree with that, cd.

i think what i was getting at is a criticism of art as a profit. kind of like human services, i don't think the two should mix.

here's a question: is art a human service?

 

[Foreigner]

I had sympathy for the entertainment industry in the beginning. They had a real argument, I understood it.

But now... after their bullying tactics, ruining people's lives, and curtailing the information age / internet revolution with their ceaseless desire for obscene profits, I not only refuse to support them, I openly rebel against them.

The more profits they lose, the better. Corporations are ruining the earth and if my pirating contributing can make a dent in their side, then great.