Conspiracies Epstein Dies in Custody - Alleged Suicide, Some Speculate it was a Hit Job
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yepyepwoah
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Here you go!
52 eyewitnesses can't be wrong!
There is a great deal of evidence that more were involved than just Harris or Klebold. Among the best evidence are eyewitnesses who saw and recognized other participants in the crime. The below lists contains most of those who saw and were able to name other attackers at Columbine, plus a few more whose descriptions of the shooter(s) cannot possibly be either Harris or Klebold.
The following eyewitnesses identified a 'Robert' or 'Robert Perry' as one of the attackers:
1) Cyrstal Archuleta(EP1-197)
"...she did see one person throw a pipe bomb. .....She told me at the time she thought it was Robert Perry."
2) Seth Dubois(EP21-125)
"...Seth told Katherine(Carlston) that Robert Perry was seen shooting a girl in the back while leaving the library."
3) Wade Allen Frank(EP1-91)
"Mr. Frank told me that he thought origonally one of the individuals(shooting) was someone by the name of Robert..." "He stated that the person was tall, approximately 6'3" and kind of ackward(sic) and gangly."
4) Bryan Frye(EP25-69)
"He stated that the person he had previously believed this shooter to be was Robert Perry. .....In a previous interview, after receiving his yearbook, he had told his father that he believed the shooter to be Robert Perry. He also stated that the gunman had bad acne."
5) Courtney Haulman(EP25-91)
"There was three guys. The guy I remember most was the main guy. He's over 6' tall and has long curly dark-colored hair. He was wearing a trench coat. His name is Robert Perry."
6) Lacey Hohn(EP1-186)
"...can you identify or descibe who was shooting? ....Ms. Hohn said that she does not believe it was Harris or Klebold. Ms. Hohn believes it was an individual named Robert."
7) Bijen Monty(EP1-110)
"I asked her if she saw the source of the shooting. She told me she saw who she thought, at the time, was Robert Perry with a gun hanging around his neck. She said she never actually saw him shoot the weapon.
"She asked me if I had any information in regards to Robert Perry. I informed her I did not."
8 ) Tessa Nelson(EP1-113)
"I asked her if she saw the source of the shots. She said she saw a male, who she thought was Robert Perry, wearing boots, dark jeans with dark hair, walking down the stairs outside the cafeteria. She said the male suspect pulled a gun and started shooting."
9) Katelyn Sue Place(EP21-285)
Kate said, "It was (Redacted). I'm almost positive of it. I remember looking him dead in the eye. He was in my debate class..... . ...Dylan kind of looked like Robert, but Dylan doesn't have the long face. Robert's teeth are messed up and he was smiling and I saw his teeth then. Kate said that she has since seen pictures of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and she said, "It's not one of them."(Referring to the person she saw shooting out on the outside commons.)
"She remembers him shooting Ann Marie(Hochalter). .... Robert was just randomly shooting. ...Robert was still shooting. ....Kate said that Robert shot Ann Marie before he smiled at Kate. ....She looked and saw Jason(Autenrieth) trying to help Ann Marie, dragging her away from Robert, to the side."
10) Lacey Smith(4470)
"On the diagram she depicts (Redacted) as walking in through the doors, past where she was sitting, and going in about as far as they north end of the school store. It was at that time she heard the windows breaking and then realized she was hearing shots.
"....she did not have any trouble indentifying PERRY when he walked past her. I asked SMITH how sure she was that the person she saw and spoke with was (Redacted). I asked, "90 percent sure? 50 percent sure?" Her response was "100 percent sure." I then showed SMITH a photo lineup which included a picture of Dylan KLEBOLD, and asked her if the person who walked past her was in the lineup. She stated he was NOT in the lineup. .....As (Redacted) passed her and was near the commons area of the cafeteria, she then explained that (Redacted) pulled a weapon out from under his trench coat and started firing into the cafeteria.
11) Brenton Hooker(16397)
"....he turned around and observed an individual he thought was ROBERT PERRY(ex-student of Columbine High School) standing outside the door just to the north of the main entrance shooting a pistol in his direction...." ....HOOKER described the individual he thought was PERRY as 6'8" - 6'11" in height, very skinny, tight black pants, black trench coat..."
12) Tyler Chenoweth(1830)
"A student named Jen Smull saw through the (science classroom)door during the incident and said that the tall suspect had curly hair and was the student who came to a Halloween party as a warlock. He thought of Robert Perry based on that description."
The following eyewitnesses identified a (Redacted) as being the shooter, with the description fitting Perry's:
13) Tiffany Lien(968 )
"Lien stated she believed gunman number one was (Redacted).... ...Lien stated that she was approximately twenty to twenty-five feet away from gunman number one and looked at him face to face for approximately 25 seconds, frozen in her tracks." Tall male had long black trench coat, black jeans, dark brown hair. His hair was kind of long and had curls. He was skinny and his shoulders kind of hunched over. ...She also stated that the gunman had bad acne.
14) Kristen Long(20245)
"Long said suspect definitely had dark hair and a large nose, thought it might be (Redacted)."
15) Rusty Shyler(5464)
"The individual was very tall. ...Shyler saw his face partially and thought based upon his dress and size that it may have been (Redacted). He was a hundred percent sure it was (Redacted). He described (Redacted) as being 6'6" to 6'7" tall and having lots of zits."
16) Chris Thierren(1207)
Saw a tall shooter with acne, large nose, shoulder-length hair. "He stated that the picture he saw was of (Redacted) and he was 'pretty sure' he was the shooter he saw that morning at CHS."
17) Erin Walton(4139)
"Erin Walton said she knew one of the shooters, and that he not one of (the) two Eric and Dylan. ...he was a senior named (Redacted). and he was very tall, had bad acne scars on his cheeks.... "
The following witnesses did not identify the shooter, but the descriptions fits Perry's:
18 ) Pat Caruso(2683 and EP17-13)
"Thought the suspect looked like a trench coat student he has seen before who had bad acne, ....curly long dark brown hair, wearing black trenchcoat.... and a tie-dyed shirt, pink or yellow."
19) Justin Norman(3929)
"Upon the hill we saw a tall guy with blond hair, acne, big nose and buck teeth.... the guy had a handgun and he shot one kid in the ankle and another who didn't move." (Note: Accoding to Norman in a later interview, this was Klebold, though the description is more indicative of Perry.)
20) Joanathan Ballard(1765)
"One of the (trenchcoated)kids(who was walking the halls during the shooting-implied to be a shooter) was about 6'5" or 6'6",.... I later saw on channel 4 or 9 news, I'm almost positive, that same man or teen, on t.v., acting all worried." (Note: this can't be Harris or Klebold, as they died in the shooting.)
Others:
21) Nathan Anema(2359)
"....Anema identified (Redacted) as possibly being the person he saw throw a pipe bomb during the shooting at Columbine High School on 4-20-99. ...Anema stated that he initially thought the person that he saw throwing the pipe bomb was (Redacted)."
22) Katie Beer(6636)
".... when the incident began at Columbine High School, she initially tried to get out of the school by going toward the main doors on the east side of the school by the administrative offices, however, she said she saw a third shooter next to these offices and that this third shooter shot out windows at that location. ...Katy Beer told him this third shooter may have been (Redacted)."
23) Jason Brehm(719)
One of the shooters had a very round face, shorter than 5'11". Not Harris or Klebold.
24) Leanne Clark(1422)
"...Clark told her that she saw who did the shooting in the cafeteria, and that Clark identified (Redacted) as a gunman."
25) John Cook(756)
A couple of weeks after the massacre, "Cook said he believed he could ID both of the suspects if he saw photos of them again." Since everybody had seen the photos of H&K in the media, and knew they had died in the incident, Cook is clearly not talking about Eric or Dylan here.
26) Frank DeAngelis, School Principle(8018 )
"I also assisted the principle of Columbine, who was having hard time giving the pictures of possible suspects to the command post and was present when he looked at and identified one of the suspects he was named.(sic) The male suspect was in the custody of, I believe, Jefferson Co. Sheriff's investigators."
27) David Eagle(1878 )
"The guy with the gun had black hair looked like it was spiked shaved on the sides.(sic) It was also blond on top. 5'9", about 18 years old.
"He has since seen pictures of Harris and Klebold on television. ...David said that the person he saw did not look like the people he's seen on television."
28 ) Ashley Egelund(22671)
"Ashley was in north corridor when she observed (Redacted) and Eric Harris coming around the corner from the library.... She said Chris Morris was armed with a handgun while Harris was armed with a shotgun.(5248 ) ....both started shooting at Ashley.... Ashley did not know (Redacted) at first but she saw his picture in the yearbook and is positive it was (Redacted).
"... No photo lineup per Investigator Battan."
29) Amy Evans(22205)
"....Amy Evans said there was a third shooter and it was (Redacted)."
30) Joel Hatfield(19277)
"Joel Hatfield interviewed 4-29-99. Saw one shooter with excellent description of dress, physical, guns and movement. Could ID in lineup if needed." Once again, this cannot be H or K, as everybody was aware that H&K were in no position to stand in a lineup!
31) Mark Hengel(5901)
"Hengel identified Klebold and (Redacted) from the photograph in the attached 1A envelope.... Also attached is a 1A envelope is a diagram of Columbine High School indicating the diection of Hengel and the two individuals dressed in black."
Apparently the interviewing officer didn't like what he was hearing, and so the interviewer ends up telling the eyewitness what he saw:
"I then advised Mark Hengel that the skinny person he saw standing and shooting was Dylan Klebold and the person he saw standing over the duffel bag was Eric Harris."
32) AnneMarie Hochalter, gunshot victim outside the cafeteria(18218 )
"Advised that Harris/Klebold did not shoot her. .... Has ID on shooters."
33) Leigh Kamens(1422)
While in the 'green room' off of the science hall, she identified (Redacted) as one of the gunmen.
34) Tim Kastle(3416)
"As far as I know the suspects are Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris, (Redacted) and I think there might have been two others."
35) Alicia Maes(3614)
"Alicia stated that when she first observed the male in the black trench coat, she thought it was a person known to her as (Redacted)."
36) Lucas Milne
"Saw (Redacted) in commons at 11am in a black trenchcoat and knows (Redacted). States that Dan Goin and Brandon Little and Bijen Monte saw (Redacted) shooting at school. Milne picked out (Redacted) in photo lineup.
37) Leiha Murphy(3828 )
In the cafeteria, notices commotion outside north-west door. "I saw a guy I recognized as (Redacted). He was running... Stair had his blond hair down. It's past his shoulders. He's about 6', tall, skinny, he was wearing a long black trench coat.... I saw nothing in his hands. He was observed a short distance from whatever was going on at the door. My thought was that (Redacted) was involved if there was a fight."
Stair named in the cafeteria map(see page 3830). Leiha also immediately picked him out of a photo lineup.
"I ask Leiha if she was certain that this individual was (Redacted). Leiha said "Oh yeah, I'm certain.... I saw his face full on. I remember seeing his face completely....(she said he stood in place for about 15 seconds)....I remember him graduating last year." She remembers him wearing 'makeup on his face and hand' and that because of that, he stood out from other students." (3836)
Also, at least four ear- witnesses heard the suspects refer to one of their number as "Joe".(Encinas, 2943, Herivel, 1927, McKenna, 3525, and Salazar, EP21-224)
38 ) Mark Opfer(1064)
"At the time, Opfer believed the taller person in the black tenchcoat who with(sic) the shooter was (Redacted)....."
(25625)
"CHS student Mark Opfer was interviewed on 4-27-99... In that interview Opfer stated that he believed (Redacted, wearing a trench coat) was standing next to a gunman and was involved in the shooting."
39) Josh Ortwein(1939)
"...Josh Ortwein witnessed the shooting and he was telling everyone he saw (Redacted) shooting a gun."
40) Bree Pasquale(18018 )
Library eyewitness, was made to beg for her life. Says the gunman lived down the street from her and played the character "Morgan" in a school play. She knew him, and he knew her. Definitely not H or K!
41) Jessica Rusch(2143)
"...she identified one of the gunmen at the Columbine High School as being an individual known as (Redacted)."
42) Cara Sander(EP25-203)
Describes gunman as pudgy, overweight, very full face, thick bushy eyebrows. IDs him as (Redacted), who is heavy-set with a round face, short dark hair and dark eyebrows. A copy of the CHS yearbook page with B
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
Well, eye witnesses are notoriously unreliable at the best of times, but a large number of eye witnesses with a consistent story does deserve further investigation.
Which leads me to my primary question, how do I know any of this is true? I mean these aren't publicly released documents resulting from police investigations, this is a message board post by some guy, who claims to have sourced these statements from public records that don't appear to be provided.
Tell you what, if you can link to the actual documentation,records, etc, that show 50 people at columbine IDing a specific individual or small group of specific individuals whom were not eric or Dylan, that would probably get me to really consider if there might not be more to this.
As it stands though, all I have to see is a list of quotes and comments that I can't see the source of, I only have the word of "some guy on the internet" that any of it is even true.
Now Ill understand that you might not want to go to great lengths to provide authoritive sources for me to look at, and that's fine, you don't have to. But understand that I am not interested in conspiracy theories. If I were provided with significant and compelling evidence from reliable siufxes, I might come to believe (or at least not disbelief) a conspiracy theory. But ive already put in far more effect than I'd have liked to investigating conspiracy theories at other people's prompting, and I'm just not willing to go out on a limb anymore when every time so far ive found nothing upon closer inspection.
Which leads me to my primary question, how do I know any of this is true? I mean these aren't publicly released documents resulting from police investigations, this is a message board post by some guy, who claims to have sourced these statements from public records that don't appear to be provided.
Tell you what, if you can link to the actual documentation,records, etc, that show 50 people at columbine IDing a specific individual or small group of specific individuals whom were not eric or Dylan, that would probably get me to really consider if there might not be more to this.
As it stands though, all I have to see is a list of quotes and comments that I can't see the source of, I only have the word of "some guy on the internet" that any of it is even true.
Now Ill understand that you might not want to go to great lengths to provide authoritive sources for me to look at, and that's fine, you don't have to. But understand that I am not interested in conspiracy theories. If I were provided with significant and compelling evidence from reliable siufxes, I might come to believe (or at least not disbelief) a conspiracy theory. But ive already put in far more effect than I'd have liked to investigating conspiracy theories at other people's prompting, and I'm just not willing to go out on a limb anymore when every time so far ive found nothing upon closer inspection.
yepyepwoah
Bluelighter
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Believe what you want. I am not that interested in swaying your opinion!
EDIT: I'll play along about Colombine. I am bored.
Official scanned documents
Jacob Apodaca - p. 3 - 3 shooters
Lindsey Elmore - p.69 3 shooters
There, that's two. There are 10k pages of documents and I'm tired of looking.
Back to Epstein
Trust company relating back to Epstein wins powerball lottery the day after Epstein reports to prison in 2008. Hmmmm
medium.com
EDIT: I'll play along about Colombine. I am bored.
Official scanned documents
Wayback Machine
web.archive.org
Wayback Machine
web.archive.org
There, that's two. There are 10k pages of documents and I'm tired of looking.
Back to Epstein
Trust company relating back to Epstein wins powerball lottery the day after Epstein reports to prison in 2008. Hmmmm
Jeffrey Epstein won the Oklahoma Powerball lottery, July 2, 2008
$29.3 million winnings was held by the Zorro Trust—a company owned by Jeffrey Epstein.
medium.com
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JGrimez
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Saying that Epstein was probably murdered is not jumping to conclusions. This is one of those stories that is so obvious, you'd have to be extremely limited in thinking to believe the official story.
What we know:
Epstein was found injured a few weeks ago. He says he was attacked. That may have been true or he may have attempted suicide.
Considering he was such a high-profile and politically-sensitive prisoner, he should've been watched at all times.
He should have been on suicide watch, maybe he was maybe he wasn't - if he wasn't, the correct response is "that's suspicious", not "oh well that makes sense I'm not going to ask questions"
There's no video footage because coincidentally the feed was cut or messed up at the exact moment he died (WHAT?)
ZOMG CONSPIRACY THEORY!!! lol.... This is when "conspiracy theory" meets reality - and it's up to you to choose what you want to believe. But even the Liberals/Left-Wingers are admitting that Epstein was probably murdered.
Also btw that didn't stop you jumping to conclusions about Trump being a Russian agent. The Left promoted conspiracy theories for 2 years, they'll change their rhetoric depending on what's politically expedient for them at the time.
JGrimez
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Those can all be explained because he was low-res streaming and moving quickly. The shell casings didn't disappear they just couldn't be picked up by the camera. Same with holes in the wall. They were there but the camera didn't see them. There's a picture of the car after he was arrested and you can see holes in the windshield caused by his shotgun blast. It's disinformation when people say that the video was fake/CGI. It happened, but there's still a lot of suspicious activity that went on in that video:
-there seems to be handlers helping him, dressed in red. A woman dressed all in red walks past before he gets started, and a guy wearing all red is standing at the entrance of the alleyway where the shooter turns into. You can also see someone for a brief second that's watching the woman who tries to run away - somehow the shooter knows that she's running and where exactly she is and he runs out after her to kill her (this also happens with another guy that tries to escape)
-there's a car parked right in front of the entrance that leaves halfway through the attack. No mention of this by authorities
-timeline-wise it would have been very difficult (some say impossible) to travel to both mosques in the time stated by authotiries.
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
I guess if you let go all of the non-violent criminals at the border there would have been more than enough people to watch him
resources probably got stretched a little thin. BRB moving military funds to whatever Trump tells me to...
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
No bro, even if some of us may not believe it, I think it's a valid perception of the events at hand. It's quite possible he was murdered, either to stay silent, or out of retribution for media connecting Epstein's crimes loosely to big names like Trump or Clinton (if I was any member of either family I wouldn't want that shit connected to my name in the slightest, I'm sure). So I'm not going to call you crazy for believing this. It's a valid interpretation.
Conspiracy theories need inexplicable, improbable explanations/events to be labeled as such; everything you described here *could very well be* a staged suicide and actually a homicide (lol RIP Jamal; quick, let's get a time machine and save Jerry Epstein and Jamal Kashoggi! AND BAN GUNS LOL THEY BOTH DIED OF GUN VIOLENCE not)
I know you'll like that last joke
JGrimez
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Also the shooter Brenton Tarrant - the NZ authorities say that he wasn't on ANYONE's watch list. No-one's.
He traveled to: Pakistan, North Korea - not typical destinations for the average Aussie bogan.
He also traveled to Turkey - and THE DAY he landed,the German embassy was shut down due to an "unspecified terror threat". He returned to Turkey roughly 6 months later and the German embassy shut down AGAIN while he was in the country.
He then traveled to Israel for 10 days.
So after all that he managed to amass a large cache of weapons (NZ authorities didn't go into detail of how he was able to do this) and then commit an attack AFTER posting on 8chan that he was about to commit an attack and he pasted a link to his live stream.
NZ police were distracted at the time by a "drill" - which is common occurrence in alleged false-flag shootings,
Captain.Heroin
Bluelight Crew
If you can't make that connection I am very sorry. The sanctions we pass on Russia are jokes compared to what we should be doing (not war but building bases around RF's borders in allied countries, beefing up defenses in allied countries). (In before someone shows me a map of all of them we have like the Iran map someone posted).
Then again if Trump was anything BUT weak on Russia... he'd probably be dead from Uranium tea.
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
Oh COME ON really you believe THAT?
Wow.
Nah I think he was just a journalist, dude. That would be an impossibly bad "cover story" if I ever heard of one being that bad... I'm sorry that's just too out there for me to even entertain.
got any evidence? no.
nice thinly-veiled ad-hom there, btw.
you're so convinced that you're right that you're unwilling or unable to see other possibilities. it's gloriously ironic but that irony is completely lost on you.
you must be confusing me with somebody else. i did not conclude trump was a russian agent (at any point).
alasdair
JessFR
Bluelight Crew
Yeah I don't think he's a Russian agent either. You'd have to be brain dead to recruit Donald Trump as an intelligent agent, the man can't keep his mouth shut about anything.
Does anyone here think he's a Russian agent?
Does anyone here think he's a Russian agent?
Jeffrey Epstein won the Oklahoma Powerball lottery, July 2, 2008
$29.3 million winnings was held by the Zorro Trust—a company owned by Jeffrey Epstein.
medium.com
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I used to entertain the possibility he was purposely helping the Russians, but I don't think so now (I never was convinced of it either). I think it's quite likely that he has been used because of the leverage Russia has on him financially. There are some suspicious links there. The Mueller report (I know you don't believe it but for me it is the only real evidence I have access to) paints a picture of an administration/president being manipulated by Russian interests, but unwittingly. I firmly believe that we should be viewing Russia as a threat, and that Russia has been involved in social engineering through social media and other Internet outlets for quite some time (since before 2016), in an attempt to increase division and discord and partisan tribalism, in order to destabilize our society and cripple our government, for the purpose of weakening our position so they can become the dominant world power. And it's working beautifully. China is likely doing some of the same stuff, in fact I can't remember what exactly but we caught them doing some hacking a while back or something, wish I could remember what it was but yeah, the other world powers are jumping at the chance to dethrone us.
And yes, I know we do the same thing, and I condemn that as well, but given I'm an American citizen, I am deeply concerned about the direction we're heading and I would like us to get wise and stop letting this shit work on us.
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
Well, there's Trump's long history of attempting to break into the Russian real estate business (which has been very difficult for him and which he has been attempting for many years), and his Moscow Trump Tower project. He also has repeatedly claimed he has no financial interest in Russia. Honestly it's fine for a president to have interest in opening a hotel in Russia, but why is he lying about it.
"Russia has never tried to use leverage over me," he tweeted in January 2017. "I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!" (from this article on businessinsider: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-russia-business-financial-ties-2018-11)
Yet this is untrue. It's weird he would deny his long history (up until current) of business dealings with Russia: Business Projects of Donald Trump in Russia Wikipedia page.
Additionally, after declaring bankruptcy several times in the US a couple of decades ago, US banks would no longer lend to Trump and he found those who would still buy into him, which happened to be wealthy Russians:
I bolded the parts that are most important IMO. This paints a picture of a guy bailed out by powerful Russians, with ties to the Russian mafia. We know that his team met with Russians at least 14 times during his campaign. Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong or illegal about having business dealings with Russians, obviously there isn't. What I am saying is that he is in debt to powerful Russians and he has business interests in Russia, and he lied about that on Twitter. And it's not too big a leap of logic to think there is a good possibility that said Russians could apply leverage and use him as a pawn in interfering with foreign affairs... he is the president after all.
As for Uranium One/DNC hacking, to me that's whataboutism. Yes, that shit is fucked up. So is this. My point is, this is fucked up.
"Russia has never tried to use leverage over me," he tweeted in January 2017. "I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!" (from this article on businessinsider: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-russia-business-financial-ties-2018-11)
Yet this is untrue. It's weird he would deny his long history (up until current) of business dealings with Russia: Business Projects of Donald Trump in Russia Wikipedia page.
Additionally, after declaring bankruptcy several times in the US a couple of decades ago, US banks would no longer lend to Trump and he found those who would still buy into him, which happened to be wealthy Russians:
I bolded the parts that are most important IMO. This paints a picture of a guy bailed out by powerful Russians, with ties to the Russian mafia. We know that his team met with Russians at least 14 times during his campaign. Now I'm not saying there is anything wrong or illegal about having business dealings with Russians, obviously there isn't. What I am saying is that he is in debt to powerful Russians and he has business interests in Russia, and he lied about that on Twitter. And it's not too big a leap of logic to think there is a good possibility that said Russians could apply leverage and use him as a pawn in interfering with foreign affairs... he is the president after all.
As for Uranium One/DNC hacking, to me that's whataboutism. Yes, that shit is fucked up. So is this. My point is, this is fucked up.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
I think a lot were waiting to see, and may have believed 'collusion' was possible (perhaps wished for it given their distrust of Trump), but I doubt the majority were 'convinced' that Trump was working for Putin. At the same time, they were willing to argue against Trump supporter's statements of his innocence, something easy to do when you don't like Trump, or his supporters, when his innocence can't be proven - you can't disprove a false allegation, all you can do is wait for evidence to arrive to support the allegation...and wait, and wait, and wait.
No you don't. There is a YUGE set of circumstantial evidence pointing to a hit, but no hard evidence of a crime committed - no fingerprints, no video ?, no witnesses :censored:...we have no evidence of a crime. Just a situation that screams that 'suicide' wasn't the reality.
Please don't put words in people's mouth. If he said it, quote it back to him and he has to eat crow. Otherwise, you're opening the door for YOU to likewise get blasted for things you never said.
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TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
Don't we have a conspiracy thread for some of this stuff? While there is some conspiracy theory applicable to Epstein's death, the thread is about Epstein's death and not all around conspiracy stuff, no? Maybe I'm misunderstanding the thread given all the title changes that have been happening 
Xorkoth
Bluelight Crew
I'm not exposing myself of anything, you're trying to reason away my argument with "but Hillary". Fuck Hillary, she's a crook, I'm not saying she's not. I'm talking about Trump and this administration, not Hillary. I didn't used to think Hillary was a crook, I will admit that, but you don't have to convince me anymore than she is, that time has passed, I have learned more and my opinions are not coming from an uninformed place. So I'm not being a hypocrite (as you appear to be suggesting) to suggest something going on with Russians in the Trump era. I even said I didn't think Trump was intentionally working against America with the Russians, I'm just saying the Russians are up to no good with us. By the way, I don't understand how you can be all up in arms about this Uranium One thing (which also involves Russia obviously) and then in the same post be all like "nah, Russia's cool, nothing to see here regarding Russia, no, Russia isn't trying to hurt us". Seems like you're doing what you're accusing me of (having a problem when it's politically expedient). If I knew then what I know now, I would have been far more concerned when those other things happened. But I wasn't, because I didn't. It is neither here nor there at this point. I view Russia as a threat, I did view Russia as a threat then too, but I just didn't know anything more than what I saw on the news, and I was barely even paying attention to that.
The Mueller report DOES outline how the Russians have been influencing our democracy, and evidence to link Trump financially to wealthy Russian oligarchs. It outlines 14 separate meetings during the campaign with members of Trump's campaign, in addition to the history of borrowing money from them. If you think it's all lies then okay, but you can't say it's too big of a leap for me to suggest what I suggested just because you want to believe it's a pack of lies. Again, I'm not saying trump is a traitor, and I will admit to you that when he got elected I jumped straight on the anti-Trump propaganda train. I'm just saying we should consider the leverage they have over him.
I think Trump is a toxic narcissistic idiot who is not a fit president, based on his behavior and rhetoric, which I would be able to get over if I didn't also strongly oppose the direction his policies have taken regarding the environment and education, mostly, as well as the tax plan and health care issues (those are more Republican congress though). I have outlined the specific things that have led me to this conclusion a variety of times to you. Please don't treat me like a rabid mindless Trump hater because I have worked hard to try to moderate my views on what's going on and be level-headed about it. When I started posting in CEPS I hardly knew a thing about politics, but through the course of discussions here I have become a lot more informed.
TheLoveBandit
Retired Never Was, Coulda been wannabe
To be clear, I agree it was murder, not suicide. My point is you are stating it as if we have evidence, we don't. And you're words I quoted show you also believe we won't get the evidence needed.
My point here was to get some of the Columbine and other non-Epstein stuff out of the Epstein thread. Not passing judgement on a conspiracy or not on any of the topics, just trying to keep the thread on topic.