Enzymes?

[vinylmesh]

Sorry about this question maybe being kinda noobish, but i need an expert to answer it.

Anyway. I was wondering about the possible use of enzymes in breaking down the non-alkaloid material in plant material.

The plant in question is the peruvian torch cactus.

Anyway, There's some "enzyme capsules" lying around my house

This is what the box says: "each capsules contains enteric coated minimicrospheres of pancreatin equivalent to

10000 ph.Eur Units lipase
8000 ph.Eur Units amylase
600 ph.Eur Units protease"

I don't want pure mescaline, i just want something less nausiating than a crude ethanol extraction.

Specifically i wanna know if this will break down the cactus fats (which apparently are the cause of the nausea).Also whether or not it will break down the mescaline.

thanks.

 

[vinylmesh]

Seeing as they all occur naturally in the body nothing bad is gonna happen.

Ok, so if the fats break down into fatty acids they can then be removed with water,right?

 

[negrogesic]

Why don't you just do the A/B extraction? It is very straightforward...

 

[MurphyClox]

I have no idea why you think that the "cactus fats" (?) cause the nausea associated with peyote. I always thought that it was a kinda side-effect from related alkaloids. But I admit, I'm not absolutely sure.

Anyway. None of the mentioned enzymes will do any harm to your mescaline. Lipases do break down lipids, i.e. fat. BUT, the term "lipase" is not very specific, as there are several ways to cleave a fat (glycerol triester) and these jobs are done by different lipases.
Amylase will cleace poly-sugars, like starch.
Proteases will cleave proteines.
None of the mentioned will attack the mescaline. Mescaline posesses a primary amine and three methyl ethers. You would need something like MAO, maybe a CYP-like enzyme.

I really doubt that this method will reduce any nausea but at least it will leave your mescaline untouched.

Peace! Murphy

 

[Black]

i don't know what kind of polysaccharides are in san pedro, but amylase (or another polysaccharide cleaving enzyme) could be of use when fighting "elephant snot" in an extraction. i - like the other in this thread - don't think using these enzymes will help nausea though.

Ok, so if the fats break down into fatty acids they can then be removed with water,right?

no. the fatty acids (especially in plants) still have long aliphatic chains and are still quite hydrophobic. organic solvents like toluene or chlorophorm would be good choices to extract them. the leftover glycerine however could be extracted with water.

 

[vinylmesh]

Well people claim that the product of the acid/base extraction causes no nausea so i assumed it would be some sort of indigestable plant material and not the alkaolids that's the problem.

 

[Jamshyd]

I don't understand why everyone is protesting. I think its an interesting idea, worth discussing, at least. Although initially most of the nausea is caused by the pharmacological action of mescaline, I imagine swallowing a shitload of slime isn't going to help with it, either.

Since "slime" is usually protiene, not fat, it is the Protease that will most likely help you. In any case, keep in mind that enzymes require an optimum temperature and pH to work in. In the human body, the temperature is just below 30 decrees celcius. I am not too sure about the pH, or about optimum conditions outside of the body. Any biochemists to chime in? I know BL is crawling with biochemists!

 

[vecktor]

Since "slime" is usually protiene, not fat, it is the Protease that will most likely help you. In any case, keep in mind that enzymes require an optimum temperature and pH to work in. In the human body, the temperature is just below 30 decrees celcius. I am not too sure about the pH, or about optimum conditions outside of the body. Any biochemists to chime in? I know BL is crawling with biochemists!

not sure about your body but most other humans are at about 37oC.

most enzymes will work optimally between 30 and 40oC, the enzymes in the preparation all require different conditions human amylase is a neutral enzyme lipase is an alkaline liking enzyme, but other lipases work at different ph and temperature. run it at at neutral pH at 30 and you probably cant go wrong. I don't think that this will make it any less nauseating, though it might make it a bit more palatable, and improve the texture

don't use enzymes if you plan to acid base extract anything, defat the acid solution, else it makes the basified mixtures very hard to extract.

 

[Jamshyd]

^ I knew I was wrong about the body. Thanks for the correction

 

[Groovy guru]

Since "slime" is usually protiene, not fat, it is the Protease that will most likely help you. In any case, keep in mind that enzymes require an optimum temperature and pH to work in. In the human body, the temperature is just below 30 decrees celcius. I am not too sure about the pH, or about optimum conditions outside of the body. Any biochemists to chime in? I know BL is crawling with biochemists!

Well, we have no idea what is in the protease capsule. I suspect that since it looks like something that is meant to be ingested it's probably something like papain which is a meat tenderizer and comes from papaya. No idea what the optimal conditions for this would be but probably close to what you find in the tropics (30C) and acidic since it's meant to be active in papaya...

 

[Black]

Since "slime" is usually protiene, not fat, it is the Protease that will most likely help you.

i'd say slime is usually polysaccharides (or proteoglycans like hyaluronic acid, which gives the vitreous humour it's gel like texture). protein solutions of course can be slimy, but mostly when the protein is denatured. my bet is definitely on polysaccharides in this case.

Well, we have no idea what is in the protease capsule. I suspect that since it looks like something that is meant to be ingested it's probably something like papain which is a meat tenderizer and comes from papaya. No idea what the optimal conditions for this would be but probably close to what you find in the tropics (30C) and acidic since it's meant to be active in papaya...

that's quite possible, but since it comes in a capsule meant to be ingested it could as well be pepsinogen, which of course needs a temperature of 37C, quite low pH and some protease activity already present.