Enough san pedro?

[gratefulskot]

doing whatever you want to your body is completely different than stealing from someone.

 

[BlueHues]

So you're telling me, if I was walking through a neighborhood and came across a yard with somebody who had like 30 san pedro stalks in it, and i cut one down, that's the exact same thing as me breaking into your house and stealing all your shit?

 

[gratefulskot]

So you're telling me, if I was walking through a neighborhood and came across a yard with somebody who had like 30 san pedro stalks in it, and i cut one down, that's the exact same thing as me breaking into your house and stealing all your shit?

not on the same level, if you don't have permission to take something from someone and you do it anyway that makes you a thief. i could have 400 bluray movies in my house and if you took just one i guess in your standards i have enough of them so your not stealing.

 

[BlueHues]

Well, if you were my friend and you let me into your house and I stole even one DVD from you, that'd be fucked up, absolutely.....but about if it was a DVD from Wal-mart? Still stealing, but Wal-marts not my friend! Far from it!

Now, let's look at taking an "ornamental" cactus from someone's yard that lives in the hills who probably wont even notice it's gone!

See my point?

 

[gratefulskot]

no, i don't. how do you know their intentions of growing that plant? was it ornamental? was ist something their kid brought home and they were growing it as a family? or was someone trying to make it huge and you just came up and chopped it down? you have no idea what that plant meant to someone. i'm not a big fan of walmart either by the way, but i still don't go in there and take what i please.. thieving is for low life fucks

 

[gratefulskot]

im glad you can justify stealing from someone because there not "your friend"

 

[BlueHues]

Yeah, I dont generally steal either, but is this thread really the place for you to take out your agression on "the thieves of the world"?

Have you ever been hungry, desperate or poor? I'm guessing no!

 

[gratefulskot]

all three right now and that has nothing to do with this conversation. i have been through alot in the 30 years i have been alive and not once have i ever thought it was ok to take something from someone else no matter how desperate i was. im broke laid off and have a 9 month old daughter. im not a shit starter and i treat others they way i want to be treated, no matter their class or standing in society. being a person who gets stolen from gets pisst when i hear people talk about regretting not stealing. btw, i live in a goddamn getto. this is the only place i could afford. you can go fuck yourself with your "i'm guessing no!" shit!

 

[daytryptr]

I'm not a fucking thief, cunt - I was taking a part of a plant that would have grown back within 6 months, and I didn't even fucking do it, so what is your fucking problem? I've never stolen A Single Thing in my life.

You've got 94 posts in 6 years of membership - I'm flattered you came out of your little cave just to insult somebody for something he didn't do, and even if he'd done it, would have made no fucking difference because plants grow back.

Twat.

[EDIT] On the "spend years growing something only to have it stolen", here's a little education, you ignorant little twat. San Pedros are among the fastest growing cacti in the world, they grow an average of 12" per summer season, and we're talking about the deep south of one of the hottest countries in Europe. In 6 months the thing would've looked good as new. If it had been a Peyote I wouldnt've even dared consider it out of reverence, those things take 10 years to grow to trip-size, but San Pedros grow like fucking weeds.
Stupid cunt.

Did you trespass on private property to take a cutting of a plant that was grown for landscaping or horticultural purposes?


If so, it doesn't matter if it was a carrot, or a cactus, or what the fuck ever. Thats not cool.

Now taking them from private property not for hortuicultural or landscaping purposes, i can see where thats ok, like if it was growing on the side of the road not in front/side/back of someones house. But if you trespassed on someones elses property to take a cutting of THEIR cactus, thats theft. If its growing wild on their property, and its not in their yard i can se how thats not quite as fucked up. But still, going onto someone elses property and leaving with something you did not enter with, imho is theft. And the law would prob consider that theft as well if the property owner was a cactus enthusiast, or an asshole just wanting to teach you a lesson.

 

[daytryptr]

^ what if it has astethic value to the owners?

If you diddn't go through with it fine, but considering it not that big of a deal is still not right. If i saw someone on my property taking a cutting i would tell them to start running before i grabbed a 20ga and called the cops.

And i never said you trespassed, it was more of a statement as to what exactly is theft. You don't seem to think petty theft is that big of a deal, most people do. Especially homeowners. Once again, i never said you did trespass. But you did post this-

Man I remember walking past somebody's garden in Valencia one day and seeing not one but TWO ten-foot San Pedros in their garden, thick as my arm. Only reason I didn't chop one down on the spot was I had another 800km to cover in the car and if the police had stopped me they might have asked a few questions about a meter of cactus in my trunk lol. Fucking think about it every other day....

 

[Flickering]

I don't really understand how this turned into a debate about the morality of stealing. What's to debate? It's immoral, end of story. And Pontifex didn't do it, so let's all chill the hell out.

 

[Ismene]

^ That's over-exaggerated, and very subjective. I would make San Pedro and orange juice smoothies and just sip them for an hour or two, it's fine. Never thrown up on it.

Not sure about that ponti. Try selling your "Cactus and orange juice smoothies" at your local bar and see how many people love the taste of em.

I can see the advert now - "Pontis cactus and orange smoothies - ya gotta love em".

 

[Ismene]

^^

I well remember the last time I braved myself to try mescaline - spent about £300 on the best cactus you can get "straight from the Andes mountains", spent 2 days preparing it, finally poured it into the glass, raised it to my nose, sniffed it, gipped, and put the fucking glass down sharpish thinking "Oh fuck me this is bad".

After about 5 minutes I desperately lifted the glass to my face again and managed to actually swallow a mouthful before I vomited it straight back down the sink.

 

[BlueHues]

^the tea we made was a lot more diluted and loaded with sugar, and you had to drink 48-64 fl oz of it to really get off good....Still, some stomach stuff but not that bad and went away.....

 

[dextrodoctor]

Well usually when I ingest mescaline I cut a piece of cacti usually 18inch from my San Pedro patch and use the method I stated in the second post to brew it. Every time I did this I quickly gulped it down chasing it with a orange juice screwdriver with a very small amount of vodka usually in 3 drinks. It is very disgusting harder than coughsyrup but far easier than some mixtures i have managed to scarf down. If you cant handle the cactus goop from the brew (which many of my friends cant) there are ways to extract it into pure mescaline but its difficult and only worth it if your doing a bunch of material at a time. I have failed a mescaline extraction twice ruining a lot of material only succeeding once but it was totally worth it.

 

[Ismene]

No, quite a lot of peruvian torch from that friendly geezer in the andes who claims he only uses sustainable cactus.

 

[daytryptr]

I think the only way to find potent cactus, is to just get multiple cuttings from different sources, bioassay/extract them in a identical manner, and save the top cuttings for propagation assuming its decently potent.

Trout's notes on San Pedro & related species pretty much fits in like with my findings. It doesn't really matter who/where it was purchased from, what species within the genus it is, or if its from southern america, north america, oz or whatnot. All the analysis's of tricho's in that book seem to suggest you just have to get lucky, and when you do save the top 6" for propagation. Unfortunately this means buying a bunch of different cuttings, alot of bunk tea/extractions involving lots of effort, and a considerable amount of $. Then theres the effort involved with growing out the potent ones you find.

I would avoid ordering large amounts of cactus, dried, powdered, or chipped,from one source hoping for the best or going by word of mouth its potent, and opt for cuttings that should give you a good dose and a bit left over. For me, that distinction is 1ft@3-4" diameter/250mg alkaloids. Or a medium trip if made into tea. ALWAYS save the tops, if they're good plant them. Even from the same sources, I've gotten shite cactus, and stuff thats kicked my ass hard with the same fresh weight between two cuttings.

Otherwise you'll just waste a ton of money trying to find a potent cutting, or dried plant material every time you order. Saving the tips in case they're potent leaves the option to at least know it was potent when you ingested the tea/extract.

Trout himself notes that this is a worthwhile thing to do, since once again, theres no guarantee you'll get good cactus, even from sources anecdotally reported to have potent stuff. I look at it like, you either have to spend a lot of money now and find some good cuttings to grow yourself, or waste money every time you order since its basically a crap shoot. But i could be fooling myself, and not be taking into account the different environmental conditions i grow my potent cuttings in compared to where they came from. Its better than nothing though ime.

 

[daytryptr]

^ One thing I did point out in page 1 of this thread is that injecting your cactus with dopamine or its two main precursors (whose name still escape me, one is L-Tyrosine, I believe the other to be L-Dopa...?) will increase the cactus' mescaline content because the enzymes within the cactus will naturally convert dopamine to mescaline.
Anecdotal evidence on the efficacy of this method differs but it seems largely down to technique, you have to do a large number of very small injections spread over time.
Anyway, it'd save the time and money needed to do the above ^.

Also AFAIK mescaline content is higher in cacti that have been grown in harsher environments.

Thats true as well, i was just trying to point out how it doesn't really matter who you get your cuttings from, since the genetics/enviroment will cause them to vary widely in potency. Thems the way it is with trichos and imho theres no way around it.

Doping them i've heard about as well, and i don't doubt it might work in some cases. One has to wonder though, is the genetic difference between a potent/impotent cactus due to lack of precursors, or a lack of/reduced activity of the enzymes responsible for metabolically synthesising the mescaline? IE if it isn't potent because the genetics/enviromental conditions cause it to have reduced enzymatic activity, doping won't really help much. You really have to find good cactus in that case.

Not that doping might help with some, but theres so many factors at play, it would be hard to say doping did anything unless you did controlled tests on the same cuttings from a mother plant grown in identical conditions. I've yet to come across anything that shows it works in that regard, so i'm a bit skeptical about doping. Not to dismiss it entirely though.

 

[Ismene]

Did you manage to trip off it eventually at least...?

Eventually but it was some hard work. Managed to swallow enough to trip on once but was gipping and feeling sick for about 48 hours which ruined the trip somewhat. Then managed to squirt half a pint up my bunghole which was a nice trip and no nausea at all. I did have to watch out for the dreaded "anal leakage" tho and lay on my front for 45 minutes