• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Election 2007.

Status
Not open for further replies.
^^ Be buggered if I know to tell you the truth... Economics mostly goes over my head, hence why I can I can barely manage to balance my meagre personal budget. But I'm sure somebody smarter than me (ie. the article author) would be able to answer that in a satisfactory way =D


Charlie Brown said:
They can say that tax cuts are offset by rising inflation and interest rates, but at the end of the day it will still be money back into my pockets...who says when labour gets into power interest rates and inflation are not going to go up ?, at least with the tax cuts i have ''some'' money back!

"Some" money that is going to buy you less... Unless, of course, you buy your goods overseas on the back of the strong AUD, in which case you contribute to the current account deficit- more dollars leaving Australia does not equal a healthy economy. As soon as the mineral boom goes to bust then we're seriously up shit creek with no industry and no infrastructure and no tax base to do anything about it :\
 
Last edited:
Then if your going to buy goods from overseas then you would be somewhat rewarded if the events noted in the first article link you provided come to fruition.

Increased interest rates that may possibly flow on from inflationary pressures caused by nominal wage effects would lead to an increase in off shore funds coming into Australia to take investment advantage of the higher comparative interest rate. This ofcourse strengthens the dollar and theoretically will increase purchasing power
 
watched the bob brown press club address. first media questioned asked was regarding their drugs policy. typical hack journos
 
...and what was the policy?

I know Rudd is zero tolerance and no HR
 
"Some" money that is going to buy you less... Unless, of course, you buy your goods overseas on the back of the strong AUD, in which case you contribute to the current account deficit- more dollars leaving Australia does not equal a healthy economy. As soon as the mineral boom goes to bust then we're seriously up shit creek with no industry and no infrastructure and no tax base to do anything about it

These tax cuts are from a surplus we currently have from a heavy tax system, we are just getting something back to offset the increasing interest rates in recent times and the inflationary increases, inflation will likely continue to increase and interest rates will proby increase also, regardless of who is in power, from past track records maybe worse if labour is in power...my point is at least with these tax cuts i get something back to pay for that extra 100$ a month in the increased morgage repayment...

tax cuts also have benefits of retaining workers from leaving australia, keeping skill and talent here...if you have a good workforce you have a better economy..better entreprenuers and future inventors, leaders.
infrastructure is all good but who says there isnt a budget allocated for this ?

labour wants to bring back the good old days off ''sleepy australia'' ''fair go for the battlers'' etc all very valid points, but maybe we should be working towards a future with less hand outs, and people actually getting off their asses...if you are a shit worker, yes you will get the sack immediately

it is 2007, times change , economies change and we have to adopt strategies for the global future. we have to align ourselves with powerful countries as it will be in the future china versus the west in economies, we have to embrace all these risks etc...and not just look at what happening in australia. my point is i dont want a sleepy australia - i want it fast with chaos, growth, leadership and ability to keep up - liberal party i see has more potential to get there
 
Anyone heard about a website quiz kinda thing that you choose from different options/policies that both parties put out and at the end it tells you who you should vote for. Mum was telling me bout it the other day but i cant find it anywhere.

Im seriously stuck, purely cause i dont know that much about it all, not saying that each party will actually ever go ahead with what they say they are going to do, i'd just be interested with the outcome.
 
some fools are auctioning their right to vote on ebay

not sure about the legalities of it all but at last look they where up to $18 and change
 
eggman88888 said:
some fools are auctioning their right to vote on ebay

not sure about the legalities of it all but at last look they where up to $18 and change


auctioning there right to vote or auctioning off who they will vote for??

If someone wants to pay me to vote for a specific party then i just might be happy to help..............hmmm, I forgot, the liberals are already doing that...........lol
 
Chronik Fatigue said:
Yes, but all those throw-away consumer goods that were spending that 'purchasing power' on aren't going to help us when the global economy stumbles and we have very little industry, run-down and inefficient and/or foreign owned infrastructure, a massive foreign debt, no services and an industrial relations system that offers zero protection to workers or their wages

Where do you get the idea that Australia has very little industry?

Obviously there are signs that the current level of foriegn debt is starting to become and economic problem. Australia has a record current account deficit, and record foreign liabilities. However, one thing to bear in mind is that how the figures are measured, the major part of Australia's net foreign debt is private debt and as such is only going to impact negatively on the private/commercial sector organisation responsible for any particular debt instrument. As such its hard to say that the level of foriegn debt in its entirety is a federal government issue, OK definately a certain element is, but not all. This is a thread about govt policy and the election after all, so we should keep discussion within the scope of what the govt is directly responsible for.

Your point about foriegn owned infrastructure is somewhat contradictory because its foreign direct investment (FDI) that allows Australia to continue and thrive. One could argue that without FDI Australia will suffer an immediate fall in living standards, forgo investment/growth and Australia would become even more heavily dependent on foreign debt.

The IR system isnt a straight forward debate, however I will say that upon hearing a statement to the effect that due to the advent of economic failure the current system offers no protection; you would have to say that such a statement is flawed. Reason largely being that upon economic failure the previous IR policies employed would not stand up either.

To that end I would have to add that a heavily unionised IR system isnt the perect answer either, especially if you want to speak economicaly. Look up the term wage-wage inflation and you will see a perfect example on how excessively powerful unions can create negative externalities and feedback into the economy.
 
Last edited:
MazDan said:
auctioning there right to vote or auctioning off who they will vote for??

If someone wants to pay me to vote for a specific party then i just might be happy to help..............hmmm, I forgot, the liberals are already doing that...........lol

haha good point :D

they are auctioning off the opportunity to present yourself at their local electorate and announce that you are ebay user 1's name and ebay user 2's name then be presented with you relevant paperwork and off you go to the booths
 
Let me just add that I wasn't implying that you actually considered/implied/endorsed heavy union interaction as a policy, I was simply looking at the most extreme alternative

In a whole I agree with what you are saying and you raise very good points and relevant ones too.

Im coming from an angle that there are two sides to every story, any one action may have several reactions etc.

Lastly I wasnt flaming you opr slandering you about saying 'look up wage-wage' and I after reading a lot of your stuff give you more than enough credit to understand how inflation works. Looking up wage-wage inflation was more of an invite to anyone reading these posts
 
I'm lucky to live in Bennelong.So,I can get the chance to,vote John Howard out of his own seat.(Hopefully this will happen)

I'll be voting Green,with prefence to Labor,and putting the Liberal Party last.

John Howard and the current Liberal Party,use FEAR of unions,minority groups like asylum seekers,bribes to buy power after screwing people for years and THEY CAN'T BE TRUSTED.Mr "NEVER EVER GST",promising before the 1996 election to bring strict "accountability
to his ministers" - Didn't happen.
From 'core' and 'non-core promises",no mention of 'Work Choices' before the last election (Mind you,I know this sort of thing has been John Howard's long term dream.... But many didn't.) to every stuff up is someone elses fault egs: No Weapons Of Mass Destruction in Iraq,children overboard,AWB,Costello saying "interest rates" went up cause of "world factors",but claiming them low because of them.Can't have it both ways Peter.
etc,etc....................

Misleading on the economy.Our economy is effected by the 'world economy',the federal government does NOT control all of the economy.The resources boom,has helped our economy alot.

Plus,it has to be looked at if the economy is really serving most/all people that great.Egs: An increase in casual jobs,while a record number of others working "unpaid overtime",and a record of "personal debt".
The economy is suppose to serve us,NOT us serve it.
We live in a society,NOT an econonmy.

Also,John Howard esepecially has been in for far too long,and the Liberal party for that matter.No leader and party should be in for too long.

The crap fight of waiting for the prime minister to call the election was a joke.

Ideally: I'd like federal elections to be 4 year fixed terms,and prime ministers to be able to serve 2 terms only - This country has a history of prime ministers who never want to go egs: Menzies,Hawke,Howard,they need to be shown and reminded they are NOT bigger than the position.

Sadly,as most times it comes down to the "lesser of two evils" regarding the two major parties.I consider it the Labor Party - It's time for a change that's been long overdue.....

Finally,"if the current federal Liberal party can't take responsibility for the bad,they can NOT take credit for the supposely good".
 
Last edited:
Chronik Fatigue said:
I just realised whi John Howard reminds me of! :D

pudding%20notes.jpg


Its 'Mr Sheen' i say! Mr Bush must have a shiny knob by now ;)

Mr-Sheen-POS_sml.gif
 
Speaking of uncanny and frightening physical resemblances, I believe these two men are one and the same:

rudpatin.jpg


Their policies and political views are also quite similar, however, Ruddock is less conservative in the area of religion and more conservative with regard to refugees. Palpatine is quite obviously strictly religious, but he is not inclined to impose his religious views on his state (i.e the Galaxy) - rather he uses them as a source of personal and private strength. I believe that trying to control the influx of refugees into the galaxy would be futile.

So Palpatine has instead tried to stir up fear of 'terrorists', by painting the Rebel Alliance as a group of fanatical anarchists, bent on the destruction of rule of law. Their destruction of the Death Star, while not something he had forewarning of, was certainly an incident used by the Emperor to stir up anti-Rebel sentiment. He also used the first attack as justification for a number of invasions, including his illegal invasion of the independent moon of Hoth. Seymour Hersh has reported that the Emperor has had troops in Tattoine before the destruction of the second Death Star, and that there were signs he was planning an invasion of that country, despite widespread opposition. However since the Emperor has obviously neutered the opposition and not allowed them any means of political representation, this means that they are voiceless - and so the average citizen considers the opposition, moderate as they may be, to simply be a political wing of the Rebel Alliance.

Also, the Emperor's defense budget is quite large, as evidenced by all the spacecraft and fighter ships that he has flying around the place. He also has invested in a large army. Unfortunately the army serves in two roles, as a military force and as a police force.

Philip Ruddock shares uncanny physical similarities with the Emperor, not to mention that he espouses a foreign and domestic policy that seems to have been taken straight from the Emperor's little black book.

I propose that Philip is turning towards the dark side of the Force, and while his physical body ages due to the anger and hatred within him, I feel that he is near the state of immortality. When he starts wearing a cloak I'll be worried, but if he offers any support for the US 'Star Wars' anti missile defence program, my suspicions will be confirmed. At least until he gathers funding for a spacecraft/battleship.

Ruddock being slowly consumed by the dark side
r135202_456105.jpg


Palpatine, long consumed - also a spitting image for Phil in 5 or 10 years
Palpatine.jpg


Oh, and one more thing: I believe that Phil's voice shares some properties with the Emperor's. That is, they both sound incredibly malevolent, only Palpatine is a little more high pitched in his vocal intonations, whereas Phil has a slower and more calculated evilness to his words

----

On another note, I will have some serious contribution to this thread, I just need to give my brain a rest before my next 10,000 word bluelight thesis
 
The older I get the more I hate politics and politicians... the worst thing is I'm studying technically to be one...

Recently I've been reading a lot of George Orwell for a university assignment. He has some very interesting things to say about politics and peoples allegience to this or that party which I think make a lot of sense:

"No one who feels deeply about literature, or even prefers good english to bad, can accept the discipline of a political party" -G.Orwell 1940

And this one sum's up my feeling's on this election:

"Every revolutionary opinion draws part of it's strength from the secret conviction that nothing can be changed" -G.Orwell 1943

Anyone who has the time, and enjoy's a good rant on the nature of partisan politics in the western world, please read, Essays by Orwell, especially the one called Notes on Nationalism. It's scary how Howard and Rudd still conform to uninspired notions of politics, pulling on the average citizen's own interpretations of nationalism (i.e. Nationalism = bad, patriotism = good) to win this election. Howard is the most morally complacent leader this nation has EVER had... gosh I hope he wins another election! ;)

Edit: After that post how could I be anything but a greens voter! COMMON BoB Brown! Bring it! ;)
 
Last edited:
ilikeacid said:
Anyone who has the time, and enjoy's a good rant on the nature of partisan politics in the western world, please read, Essays by Orwell, especially the one called Notes on Nationalism. It's scary how Howard and Rudd still conform to uninspired notions of politics, pulling on the average citizen's own interpretations of nationalism (i.e. Nationalism = bad, patriotism = good) to win this election.

Nice post, and exactly right. I commonly cite Notes on Nationalism, and paraphrase Orwell's suggestion as to the lunacy of applying personal characteristics or individual classifications, to whole groups of people.

By ‘nationalism’ I mean first of all the habit of assuming that human beings can be classified like insects and that whole blocks of millions or tens of millions of people can be confidently labelled ‘good’ or ‘bad’(1). But secondly — and this is much more important — I mean the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or other unit, placing it beyond good and evil and recognising no other duty than that of advancing its interests.

Notes on Nationalism

You can read the essay at the above link.

I got my hands on the Penguin version of the Essays at about 14 and have read them over and over since that time, referring back to them every six months when I need an injection of common sense into my thought process.

I also reccomend, if you enjoy reading Orwell's non fiction, that you try and find his collecton of columns, mostly taken from 'As I Please' but interspersed with letters and pesonal communications. Very good stuff.

There's a great deal to be said about Orwell's 'Notes on Nationalism', but I say a great deal all the time, and I honestly don't think anyone's actually read a good 50% of my posts, because alot of them turn out to be 4,000 word monsters completely inappropriate for a message board. Ah well.

What I will say, though, is that 'Nationalism', as Orwell uses it, and himself states for want of a better word, is an exceedingly powerful concept, and as far as I've been able to tell, there is no word that is accurately correlative to Orwell's definition. I used to use 'bigotry' and sometimes I use 'generalisation', but I don't think they accurately convey the second of the two-part definition, that is, the habit of identifying oneself with a cause and then attempting to secure prestige for that cause rather than the individual, by any means necessary - and not to mention, taking offense against comments made against the group to which the individual self-describes himself as being a part.

I think it's just as rampant as a concept now as it was then, only I think it has become even more prevalent, insidious a method of thinking as it is.

When I use the word 'generalisation' or add the caveat 'negative', I mean it in a similar sense as Orwell describes 'Nationalism'. However, the concept, as I see it in existence today, may or may not have a definite group association element. It certainly can, but it does not need to.

I see generalisation, as I use the word, occurring everywhere and in just about every person. It transcends political affliation, religious identification, moral code or conduct, or any other means by which you can objectively classify a person.

For example, there's a blog called littlegreenfootballs.com - and in fact Orwell's 'Nationalism' may more accurately describe these people - in which the predominant activity is to wait for Charles, the admin, to post some piece of anti-Muslim bigotry, and then slobber over that piece in the comments section, using 3/4 of the time to wish death upon all Muslims and praying, though I can't imagine praying while typing, for the destruction of Mecca and all Muslim holy cities. The other quarter of a visitor's time is spent praising Charles, as the almighty, infallible and omnipotent lord of the blog. Charles is never wrong. Even when he's wrong, everyone shifts their opinion so that his opinion has, in their microcosm of a sick society, become right.

Now they consistently deny charges of racism, but are proud to cite themselves as anti-Muslim bigots. However, they are not just anti-Muslim but virulently racist, as well.

I often thought of 'Notes on Nationalism' when going to that site. It's quite depressing seeing people act in this way.

By the same token, as I posted amidst about ten thousand other words on the 'Afterlife' thread, I have seen the same patterns of thought exhibited by people who define themselves as 'enlightened' or 'open-minded' - that is, enlightened in direct opposition to religion, which is seen as the absolute and all-encompassing evil. So a person is enlightened because he is not religious, and religious people are so supremely unenlightened that a person can be confident and derive self-esteem from the 'fact' that they do not think in the same way. But of course, by judging a faith on the exhibitions of someone belonging to that faith, they exhibit the same tendency towards this kind of thinking as religious people have done, and as scientists have done - in fact, as all humans have done.

I only see that there are less vicious or savage forms of this kind of thinking, and then more vicious and savage forms.

I have always examined myself for these tendencies, and have without much trouble, found them in my interactions with others and my considerations of others. I have tried to eliminate them and still do. It's my belief that this kind of doctrine has at least part of it's basis in lazy thinking, or ignorance. That is to say, it is easier to label group A as evil, and group B as good, because I belong to group B, and I now have justified my antagonism towards them.

It is more challenging, as Shakespeare alluded to in Romeo and Juliet, when I meet a group A person and find out that he or she is a reasonable sort of a person, and not too different from myself. Once I see commonality or similarity, any antagonism is gone, and replaced by an empathy - that most base and at the same time most important emotion - empathy. That is, attempting not just to see the world through the Group A person's eyes, but being able to feel the world as that person does. Essentially, I see it coming back to universal experience - that person has a parent, and so do I. I know how my parent feels about me, perhaps they have a parent who feels about them the same way. Or, I kicked my toe on the corner of the bookshelf, and feel pain. I know that person is human and can feel pain too. Or that person can be sad, disappointed, elated, ignorant, arrogant, just as I can - and therefore, a connection is established, no more able to be articulated than that.

And it's relation to Notes on Nationalism, the suppression of empathy among these people, and the emergence (if it indeed has ever retreated) of this kind of thought in today's society, in more subtle forms, in more violent forms, and more importantly, it's emergence and exhibition in people who deny that they feel or think in such a way. Orwell comments on this hypocrisy in his essay 'Antisemitism in Britain', when he cites a woman as saying, 'I don't hate the Jews, I'm not some anti-semite, I just don't like the way they act', and describes the strangely sickening human duality, being able to espouse a view and in the same sentence, deny to another person and to the self, that you hold such a view.

Interesting stuff, thanks for reminding me about that essay ilikeacid, I haven't read it in a long time and I guess I should pick it up again somewhere along the line.

Let me ask you something, I've been thinking about this for a while: since Orwell's real name was Eric Blair, do you think it's possible his nom de plume is derived from Orsen Welles - whose real name was 'George Orsen Welles'. Because as far as I know, Orsen Welles was very young at the time Eric Blair was writing, but he nonetheless was a prodigy and was a celebrity before he turned 20. I just don't know when Eric Blair took that name up. Anyway a bit of speculation nonetheless. And vaguely on topic. Well most of the post was.

Pete
 
pete_gasparino said:
And it's relation to Notes on Nationalism, the suppression of empathy among these people, and the emergence (if it indeed has ever retreated) of this kind of thought in today's society, in more subtle forms, in more violent forms, and more importantly, it's emergence and exhibition in people who deny that they feel or think in such a way. Orwell comments on this hypocrisy in his essay 'Antisemitism in Britain', when he cites a woman as saying, 'I don't hate the Jews, I'm not some anti-semite, I just don't like the way they act', and describes the strangely sickening human duality, being able to espouse a view and in the same sentence, deny to another person and to the self, that you hold such a view.

Interesting stuff, thanks for reminding me about that essay ilikeacid, I haven't read it in a long time and I guess I should pick it up again somewhere along the line.

Let me ask you something, I've been thinking about this for a while: since Orwell's real name was Eric Blair, do you think it's possible his nom de plume is derived from Orsen Welles - whose real name was 'George Orsen Welles'. Because as far as I know, Orsen Welles was very young at the time Eric Blair was writing, but he nonetheless was a prodigy and was a celebrity before he turned 20. I just don't know when Eric Blair took that name up. Anyway a bit of speculation nonetheless. And vaguely on topic. Well most of the post was.

Pete
:D Dude, come round to my house and write my essay for me, you practically already have hehe :D Very interesting points mate, it's always good to find someone who enjoys some classic literature :D

To answer your question gasparino about Orwell and his name: well my theory is that after returning from Burma and Paris he saw that his belonging to the British middle (bourgeoise) class was a terrible class to be apart of. He famously Hated imperialism, and as he got older he conducted more and more first hand evidence on what the reality of being a member of the 'lower orders' (see Down and out in Paris and London and Road to Wigan Pier). From this research he became allienated whcih caused him to want to remove himself from the class who's ideals he percieved to be all wrong, changing his name to George Orwell was a symptom of this. Apparently the Orwell river was a river near his home when he lived in Suffolk. In a letter to his editor in 1931 he wrote down 3 pseudonyms that he thought would sound good as a pen name, George Orwell was the winner. Hope that provides some insight :)
'I don't hate the Jews, I'm not some anti-semite, I just don't like the way they act', and describes the strangely sickening human duality, being able to espouse a view and in the same sentence, deny to another person and to the self, that you hold such a view.
Yeah that is a classic representation of what is happening all around us in Australia today. Look at the Sudanese refugee issue: "I don't hate blacks, I'm not a rascist, but I don't think they intergrate with Australian people"! As we both said, things really haven't changed all that much since the traumatic times of the 50s & 60s. Seems to me a lot of people, and far worse, our government, still hold onto outdated rascist ideas that were the basis for the white Australia policy! I thought we moved past that bullshit 45 years ago! :|
 
Last edited:
BTW, does anyone else think its fucking wrong to be constantly bombarded with Pro-Howard propaganda during the run up to the election!? A few examples: the drugs booklet I got in the mail a month ago, the internet warning booklet, the constant adds about industrial relations being happy and fair dinkum, and even a freaking letter attached to my pay slip reminding me that I can't be fired for no reason! The first two of these examples have a fucking letter from the evil midget reminding us battlers that he cares, and has taken a personal interest in producing his high grade 'information' booklets!

Funny that all these things with the little buggers face on it has come about less than 3 months before election time.. Well I guess thats the power of incumbency, you get to spend the taxpayers money right up until they decide to call an election.
 
Last edited:
ilikeacid said:
BTW, does anyone else think its fucking wrong to be constantly bombarded with Pro-Howard propaganda during the run up to the election!? A few examples: the drugs booklet I got in the mail a month ago, the internet warning booklet, the constant adds about industrial relations being happy and fair dinkum, and even a freaking letter attached to my pay slip reminding me that I can't be fired for no reason! The first two of these examples have a fucking letter from the evil midget reminding us battlers that he cares, and has taken a personal interest in producing his high grade 'information' booklets!

Funny that all these things with the little buggers face on it has come about less than 3 months before election time.. Well I guess thats the power of incumbency, you get to spend the taxpayers money right up until they decide to call an election.

nah, tis ok with me. better than sorting out the hospitals and homeless eh?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top