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Effects of psychedelic drugs on psychotic patients

I've thought about trying this too, just for a couple of weeks to see what happens. I'd be worried about the 5-HT2B activation with longer term use though.

As Pimer said, 5-HT2A antagonists alone are only slightly effective as antipsychotics.
BlueZenith said:
It seems likely that any ligand would do. Psilocybin was used in the OCD trial, which I surmise involved the same mechanism.
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I thought the effects of psilocybin on OCD lasted too long to be explained just by receptor downregulation?

Edit: Or maybe not, seems nothing more has been done since a 2006 trial done primarily to assess the safety, so no controls, n=9...
 
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Wouldn't the magnitude of receptor downregulation depend on the dose of the agonist? So the sub-psychedelic doses would cause far less downregulation than a typical psychedelic dose. Or is this effect not dose dependent?
 
Functional selectivity appears to play a lare role ij psydcedela. And as stated there are a number of 5HTa agonists that do not cause it. Lisuride is one of them, 2,5-OCH-amphetamine is another. 2,5-dimethoxy-4-cyanoamphetamine acts as to either increase PLA2 or stimulate the IP3 turnover second messenger system, whilst 2,5-dimethoxyamphetamine does the opposite, selectively, forget which way around now)
 
I found treshold psychedelic doses extremely effective for my predromal negative symptions; shizo is caused by glutamate hypoactivity; the other effects are downstream; there's also excessive tonic dopamine however amphetamine is highly effective for negative symptions too.
 
Treshold psychedelics fix neurological soft signs in shizo; or clumsy motor coordination.

I came up with a intervention that pretty much fixes all shizo symptions without the use of horrid ap's.
 
5HT2A agonism induces phasic da wich is hypoactive in shizo; 5HT2C agonism reduces the excessive tonic da levels.
 
Antipsychotics while all slightly differ strongly antagonize 5HT2A wich helps shizophrenia; also agonism by high dose psychedelics causes a psychotic like state so it was hypothised 5HT2A is hyperactive in shizophrenia; however its far from as simple as that.

Its simular to the dopamine theory; while clearly lack of phasic dopamine is the cause behind negative symptions
 
Um,
I would bet if you did a double-blind study with schizophrenics and gave one group psilocybin and the other diphenhydramine, that pretty much no clinically significant reduction in psychosis would occur in short or long term.

I've seen quite a few people with psychosis due to schizophrenia or BPD use psychedelic drugs and it's never really made them any less psychotic.

The study on safety is done in persons with OCD, not full blown psychosis.
 
nuke said:
Um,
I would bet if you did a double-blind study with schizophrenics and gave one group psilocybin and the other diphenhydramine, that pretty much no clinically significant reduction in psychosis would occur in short or long term.

I've seen quite a few people with psychosis due to schizophrenia or BPD use psychedelic drugs and it's never really made them any less psychotic.

The study on safety is done in persons with OCD, not full blown psychosis.
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I've read of studies which happened back in the 60's-70's? when they first gave LSD to schizophrenic patients and people suffering from other mental disorders, from what I gathered a few of the seriously disabled schizophrenic's found some sense of self while on LSD as opposed to other forms of treatment...

Whether regular psychedelics which could be used recreationally are helpful is debatable, but if any positive signs are shown, there is a possibility that a LSD-Analogue which may not be psychoactive could actually help reduce the symptoms?

Maybe it's not the psychedelic 'effects' which could help them, but rather the balance/imbalanced activity within the 5hT receptors...


There are many LSD-Analogues and other heavy Serotonin agonists which are not psychoactive at all, some more so than LSD yet they bring about no hallucinations form of intoxication...

These may be better suited for these studies in my opinion to prove whether or not it is the 5ht receptors which are the cause for these disorders or not...
Given this nobody really has permission to study/find the reason why certain psychedelics cause the effects they do. All we know is "this and that part" of the brain become active when "X" substance is ingested. What follows is the trip... and it's always different for each person


If a drug can cause a sane person to temporarily go 'insane' there could be properties of the drug that could be used to do the opposite, but than again it's next to impossible to determine what the outcome will be...


Anti-Psychotic/Neuroleptic's are basically chemical Labotomies and its more of a all or nothing type deal with most of them, instead of helping a person psychologically, its like a physical/chemical blockade of an entire section of the brain at once... probably why they always have such severe side effects associated with them and why many people tend to stay away from them.
 
The answer is yes.
To be more precise, try 5-10 mg doses dpt..or 1-5 mg of 2 c compounds.
Dmt will work as well, but maois 'may interfere
 
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