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ecstacy manufacturing variations

fastandbulbous said:
Can't remember the name, but there's a way of reducing ketones to alkanes using hydrazine (the word 'wolf' appears somewhere I think). Beyond that, I'll shut up as it's on the verge of synth discussion
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wolff-kishner.
 
also Clemmensen reduction just uses zinc amalgam in acid reflux. whereas W-K is done under basic conditions.
 
Limpet Chicken said:
One thing I thought of lately, what about reducing methylone, to 3,4-methylenedioxyephedrine?

Wouldn't that, on RP/HI reduction, reduce to the two D-chiral isomers of MDMA? I might be way off though, stereochemistry isn't something I am uber-competent on.
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I think the isomer would remain the same at each step, so if methylone is racemic, and I would guess it is, then so would be the final product.
 
Winding Vines said:
I enjoyed the S-MDMA as well. I wouldn't call it "smacky" but it was definitely a "smoother' experience, and much shorter-acting. Few after effects. Also noted less sensory enhancement, but not to the degree of loss I experience with methylone and even MDE.
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i read on PubMed that that S-MDMA has about 4 to 5 hour half life, and the R-MDMA has around a 16 hour half life. I guess the R-MDMA gives you the 'after glow' the day after a MDMA experience.
 
mister said:
could a by-product of manufacture say 75mg mixed with 75mg MDMA still test 150mg MDMA
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Wouldn't they be very hard to distinglish in a lab test?
 
Splatt said:
Wouldn't they be very hard to distinglish in a lab test?
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that is what im getting at.
Could you create an inferior MDMA through bad chemistry which would still test as MDMA but with less potency??
 
it might be possible that if there was trapped solvent in the sample it could test for a higher weight of mdma than is actually the case. But an error like that would be made on behalf of the person weighing the tablets. You would expect that type of thing to get flagged up in an analytical testing
 
could any of these byproducts test positive to MDMA, could a drug manufacturer use these byproducts to maximize profits?
 
Sprinklervibes,

Yes, you're right, amphetamine is not a by-product of an MDMA synthesis.

* * *

Originally posted by TheDEA.org: "(he particularly liked a 70:30 S:R mix) [of MDMA]"

That's interesting to hear because Adderall XR is also a 70:30 S:R mix but of various amphetamine salts, not MDMA. The pharmaceutical company must have done some drug desirability experiments they haven't told us about.

* * *

methylone + sodium borohydride in MeOH --> 50:50 mixture of
3,4-MD-pseudoephedrine and 3,4-MD-ephedrine

Wolff-Kishner (hydrazine, KOH) or Clemmenson (Zn, Hg, H+) of racemic methylone --> racemic MDMA

Neither 3,4-MD-pseudoephedrine nor 3,4-MD-ephedrine would be expected to exhibit much activity. Also, I have heard that the Clemmenson is a no-go for aminoketones.

* * *

As for pills feeling different than they used to, a recent check of www.ecstasydata.org indicates some pills contain MDMA, some MDA, some MDMA and meth, some MDA and fentanyl, some MDMA and DXM and some with caffeine too. It's an ingredient free for all.
 
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could any of these byproducts from MDMA manufacture test positive to MDMA, could a drug manufacturer use these byproducts to maximize profits in pills?
 
As a rule of thumb, any compound with a 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl ring will make the Marquis turn purple/black, but not just any compound with a 3,4-MD-phenyl ring will fool more sophisticated lab tests such as a GC/MS or NMR, for example.

And yes, manufacturers could trick a Marquis reagent test into testing positive for MDMA in any number of ways (namely, adding a compound that has a 3,4-MD-phenyl ring), but then they probably wouldn't get a lot of return customers.
 
joystick said:
As a rule of thumb, any compound with a 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl ring will make the Marquis turn purple/black, but not just any compound with a 3,4-MD-phenyl ring will fool more sophisticated lab tests such as a GC/MS or NMR, for example.

And yes, manufacturers could trick a Marquis reagent test into testing positive for MDMA in any number of ways (namely, adding a compound that has a 3,4-MD-phenyl ring), but then they probably wouldn't get a lot of return customers.
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in theory could they could mix 50mg's MDMA with 50mg's of byproduct which would test up to be 100mg's MDMA.

Could a low quality MDMA be made?
 
so theres more than one type of MDMA?. is MDEA and MDA easier to manufacture than MDMA?
 
Not really. All xtc manufacturing variants are going to rely on a background in chemistry to at least some degree. However since heliotropin and sodium cyanoborohydride are on the extreme end of the suspicion scale, manufacturing MDMA from sassafras oil is probably easier in that sense. You'll have to research it yourself though. This is not something I have looked into that closely and ordering items such as sassafras oil is quite supicious also. But at least then you will avoid ordering precursors directly through a chemical supplier. However the chances of an idiot being able to pull of a synthesis and not get busted are next to zero. That is part of the reason why discussion of synthesis is banned on this website. If it was as easy as baking a cake then that would be another matter entirely.
 
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mister said:
in theory could they could mix 50mg's MDMA with 50mg's of byproduct which would test up to be 100mg's MDMA.

Could a low quality MDMA be made?
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As has already been said, a home-test for ecstasy could be fooled but not sites like ecstasydata.org where a GC/MS probably is used.

mister said:
so theres more than one type of MDMA?. is MDEA and MDA easier to manufacture than MDMA?
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There's only one type of MDMA (if you don't count its isomers which IIRC have a synergetic effect on each other so one isn't better than the other).

MDA (Methylene Dioxy Amphetamine), MDMA (Methylene Dioxy MethAmphetamine) and MDEA (Methylene Dioxy EthylAmphetamine) are all made with the same synthesis. The only difference in procedure is that one reactant is replaced by another.
 
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