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Eating Post/During a roll and the day after

If you are the highly organised type, the day you plan to go out, go buy a smoothie from one of the snesational smoothie bars around town (like Boost, Viva etc). Stick that baby in the fridge and when you get home - voila - 1 fruity, healthy, meal you don't have to chew. Alternatively, make your own. Preferable to Up and Go's (imho) are the B'fast's made by Yoplait. They actually taste nice.
Having homemade soup in the fridge for that day after is something I recommend. Scrambled eggs on toast is a godsend, if you can be fucked making them...
 
After years of experimenting with food at raves I take a plastic container (like an empty 500g peanut butter jar) about 1/3 full of milo and half way through the night when i start feeling tired (from low blood suger) I do not take another pill because this is stupid and just masks the symptoms of low blood suger. I fill the milo up with (cold) water and shake well. This taste great and is easy to get down and within half an hour i feel great again and can go the rest of the night with NO MORE DRUGS.
Milo is about 50% malt which (i have read) increases seratonin and 30% milk powder (very high in tyrosine and phenylalanine which are converted to dopamine and noradrenaline) and fat (good for lining the stomach so NO ulcers) and vitamins and chocolate and suger. The only catch is I have to sit down for 1/2 an hour after drinking it to let the stomache digest it. But i think dancing 8 hours non stop is unhealthy for my body and breaks from the dancefloor are good. At this point i chat to my friends, and when my stomache is happy i then go back to the dancefloor. I have tried Powerbars but they are tough to chew with no saliva, and are usually low in fat, and i like the fat because all stimulants (speed, mdma, coke) strip the stomache lining of the mucus that normally protects your stomach from acid, especially while chewing gum!
I also once went to a green ant party and got a 2 litre tub of chocolate icecream with my friend and while we were rushing we demolished it and it was fantastic as it was half melted and I got chocolate icecream all over my face but it was worth it as it was like eating heaven!
 
I got chocolate icecream all over my face but it was worth it as it was like eating heaven!
Ahaha i know exactly what you mean - picture four heinously stoned guys sitting around a gigantic plate of nachos, the entire room decended into silence besides the crunching of corn chips and smacking lips ... culinary ecstacy!
BT :D
Click to expand...
 
Ursus Brutalis - don't think I'm having a go at you by singling your post out here :-) But due to the area I work in I have some input on your method...just some safety concerns more than anything :-)
You are taking a big risk by restricting your carb intake so severley and then loading up your carbs.
Firstly , you say towards the end of your post, zero carbs , and lots of protein - only problem with this is the protien is a waste unless you are eating enough carbs, as protein cannot be absorbed into the muscles/blood stream without eating carbs simultaneously - carbs "open the gate" for the protein to be absorbed.
Other main thing I thought I'd mention was, if you carbo load when going out - do you understand that every gram of carbs in your body, holds 3 grams of water with it? If you are denying your body carbs before hand, you are dehydrating yourself, then when you are preparing to go out you load up carbs, your body then all of a sudden can hold a heap more water than normal, (remembering that your body only stores 600ml( grams) of carbs, then the rest is converted to FAT STORES..you basically have a 600ml tank - 500ml in muscles, and 100ml in your liver, when you overflow the tank..you just create fat) which has the potential to be quite dangerous especially when combined with the effects of a ecstasy pill - and even more so when you drink a fair amount of water while still under the effects. By having excessive carbs just before you are taking ecstasy you are making yourself more open to having problems with too much water in your body - and not being able to expell it... 600ml/grams of carbs = 1.8L of water - and thats just what is stored with the carbs, it just puts you in a position to easily overdo the water and potentially kill yourself. Basically a whole heap of fluid retention...
Also - there is absolutely no benefit to vitamin loading - ie taking more than your body's daily requirement - it will just be flushed out as excess toxins.. not absorbed at all. An expensive habit that isnt going to make a difference, you are better off just taking the daily required amount..
Once again, when i read your post, I just thought that I would add in my 2 cents worth as a safety aspect for you, anyone please feel free to add any comments!
Roquen
 
^^^^^^ That's my girl!!
I have to agree, and I was going to mention it, but thought I would leave it to the professional.
On the vitamins note, I guess if you already take vitamins daily, and you are hovering around your daily necessary intake.. then there is no real need to take heaps more before rolling. if you DONT take vits regularly, then taking then before rolling to preload is a good idea. Also, some people must remember that they could alreday be deficient in certain vitamins, so it is hard to know how much of each you should take.
Oh, allow me to introduce my wonderful other half: Roquen!!! :) :) (pronounced - Ro - kwen - elvish word for horseman or horserider) Some of you may have met her.
Cheers!
Pendulum
 
Thanks for the good feedback and safety concerns Roquen.
The approach I use is generally consistent with my general dietary habits and my own unique metabolic needs.
This is not to say I do not heed your warnings and concerns (which should be welcomed by any poster on BL) but rather my approach is tailored for my own particular physique type, weight, activity levels, profession, age etc, etc. More importantly, it is an endeavour to reduce the anti-catbolic effects of "running on the spot for too many hours". Because I have been involved competitively in various strength sports for some years I have used carb depletion/loading programs (devised for me by a sports/clinical dietician)with good success in terms of minimising loss of lean muscle tissue for several different types of events.
On the day of the rave I carb load in minimal - moderate amounts (not excessive) at regular time intervals and drink appropriate amounts of fluids so as to avoid any gastro-intestinal discomfort or bloat (and also any "X Sydndrome" type response, ie, conversion of excess carbohydrate into adipose tissue).
Also, I have created a significant insulin spike in order to optimise protein uptake and glycogen synthesis. By the end of the day I am chock full of glycogen goodness. During the rave itself I am very cautious about water intake and monitor bio-feedback carefully. Regular rest breaks are the rule and include minimal (maybe 50gms) intake of simple carbs (malto-dextrin ect).
Because I weigh 130kgs I sweat significantly and can drop a lot of fluid at an event. This makes me take a somewhat cautious and conservative approach to self-care and harm minimisation.
I respect your comments and your views however this is just my own approach tailored for my particular physiological needs and is a routine I have been using for several years. It's definitley not a dietetic template for your average punter - just me.
Cheers,
Panda
 
Hey Pendulum,
Got into weightlifting and powerlifting routines..that sort of stuff.... bodybuilding did not work for me as it's more a religion than a sport as sometimes people can become a bit obsessed and their life can et a bit out of balance - cool for them but didnt work for me!
Good luck with the sprinting - can recommned an excellent book on sports specifi strenth straining and developing annual/conjugated training cylces and programs - Check Out Supertaining (Vol 6) by Dr Mel Siff. Also check out Versoshansky from Russia.
Cheers
Panda
 
Hi again,
I guess my concern was more that your system is really not suitable nor safe for the average person (only for you, as you mentioned) - in that carb loading and similar is something you need to build up to and "train" your body for - as you would know. I can see how it would work for you in your situation and body type, it seems that you are clear on the whole water intake issue, so as long as you moniter that, it would be safe for yourself, but not so, for others who do not share the understanding of what they are doing , and/ or have not sufficiently prepared their body for such a task.
I am a personal trainer and have been involved in bodybuilding and sport (i help coach/train Pendulum) so also have heard and tried many of the theories out there, I know there are some interesting new ideas coming out of some recent studies, that tend to shy away from your technique but rather focus on utilising fat stores during endurance events.. so it will be interesting to see what they come up with on that front, and whether it was successful or not! :)
 
Thanks Roquen,
Part of the group I used to rave with were qualified practioners in the health care and fitness industries. So, harm minimisation was always a key issue for us.
Are these studies based on creating ketosis to fuel oxidization of adipose tissue? Seems very interesting as this Panda wears a 'perpetual winter coat"
Good luck with the coaching!
Cheers
Panda
 
Hi again!
One thing my boss has found (he is a triathlete) that if he maintains a low - moderate carb, moderate to high protein and low fat (about 60g a day for him) he has the ability to go the distance in his endurance triathlons without resorting to carb gels and drinks and bars throughout the race like many of his counterparts do every 30 to 40 minutes to maintain energy.
He never loads or restricts, just sticks to a certain amount of grams per day as above, and on race day, the most carbs he has ever needed over a 6 or 8 hour race was one gel in 3 hours which is great considering the level he competes at and how long for..
so he is now setting about getting some serious studies done on what amount of carbs per day (in relation to body type and amount of training) would be necessary to allow athletes to do this also - as he said he felt 10 times better after the recent races where he hasnt taken carbs throughout, and relied on the base that he had stored, and then his body using fat stores ie producing ketones.
His body through the training and nutritional balance is good at secreting Glucagon which elevates blood sugar level - ie the fatty acids are released from the fat stores, some get converted back to glucose, and the rest get converted into ketones and then into energy, which is quite efficient if one can get themselves to a point where there body functions well enough for it to occur. Many of the other endurance athletes rely on this to a certain point, then they just start popping carb gels in the races and reverse the effect, relasing insulin (which is obviously the reverse of glucagon) and confusing the crap out of their body! They then of course get a rush when their blood sugar level goes thru the roof, then a trough, where their energy goes way back down, so they take another gel to have an energy peak again.. which isnt really that efficient!
He does replenish carbs after races, as obviously his stores get depleted anyway, however he doesnt need to replenish them much at all during a race which is a handy tool, and lets face it, saves you money since you arent forking out for supplies for each race!
gosh - i hope that makes sense.. !!!
 
Excellent comments!! On this subject, also check out "Body Opus" by Dan Duchaine for more interesting goodies on low carb/insulin management methodologies - this was written a long time ago and its interesting how the low carb-hi protein/ketogeneics movement is now gaining momentum.
If I weighed as much as the average triathlete (and actually had a waist line also!!) I would not be following my current pre/post roll practices.
Anyhow, nuff said!! Cheers!
<Panda Out>
 
Wonderful discussion guys! It's great to see people confidently discussing their knowledge politely and constructively :D
I might ask that we slowly ease back to the original topic, if possible? By all means, please continue discussion along this line of thought, though. I'm interested, hope others are. A couple of things I thought of along the original topic:
How much energy replacement is REALLY necessary after a night out? You guys sound like you should be able to tell us what the average person needs in the way of food and drink to get them through a night and recover well. What kinds of foods can people use that are chocked with 'goodness' but still easy to eat when feeling a bit fragile after pounding their body with drugs?
Also, is drinking (say) a bottle of water an hour the most efficient way to stay hydrated, if for example, dancing hard in 10-15min bursts over about 5-6 hours? People often comment to me that they get a bloated feeling after drinking a lot of water with pills, but their mouth still dries out. How much exercise would a person have to do before gatorade or powerade etc. becomes really necessary?
Between the do-nothing approach, and Ursus Brutalis' personally programmed and customised approach, is there a 'middle ground' that most people could aim for to help themselves reduce harm while not going totally overboard? Is there a 'better way' to prepare your body for a minor fasting period, such as the 24-72 hour window after drugs in which many people experience some drug-induced anorexia and choose not to eat? Assuming someone didn't prepare at all, what does fasting for that length of time do to your body, particularly with an artificially cranked up metabolism?
Thanks, BigTrancer :)
 
How much energy replacement is REALLY necessary after a night out? You guys sound like you should be able to tell us what the average person needs in the way of food and drink to get them through a night and recover well. What kinds of foods can people use that are chocked with 'goodness' but still easy to eat when feeling a bit fragile after pounding their body with drugs?
**** My thoughts (could be wrong..!) on this one are that fruit would be one of the easiest things to eat, one large banana has about 60g of carbs in it plus lots of other goodies, also apples have about 20 - 25g, I guess it all depends on body size, level of fitness and normal diet habits as to what each person needs - in that you cannot replace the energy (carbohydrate store) in one go, it has to be built back up gradually but I would say at a guess go for some carbs and protein (which may not taste as good - as it is in meat/chicken/tuna/salmon etc! or a protein shake) every 2 -3 hours, as in 60g carbs and roughly 60-70g protein.****
Also, is drinking (say) a bottle of water an hour the most efficient way to stay hydrated, if for example, dancing hard in 10-15min bursts over about 5-6 hours? People often comment to me that they get a bloated feeling after drinking a lot of water with pills, but their mouth still dries out. How much exercise would a person have to do before gatorade or powerade etc. becomes really necessary?
**** If you are only dancing say 30 minutes out of every hour total - look at about 250-300ml water, 500ml water if it was a solid hour then 20 min breaks and so on..this is also related to how much carbohydrate is in the system and the overall size of the person. With regards to energy drinks - the best way to go about that would be to sip them during breaks that way you are hydrating and replenishing at the same time, wouldnt have the drink more than every hour to one and a half hours****
Between the do-nothing approach, and Ursus Brutalis' personally programmed and customised approach, is there a 'middle ground' that most people could aim for to help themselves reduce harm while not going totally overboard? Is there a 'better way' to prepare your body for a minor fasting period, such as the 24-72 hour window after drugs in which many people experience some drug-induced anorexia and choose not to eat? Assuming someone didn't prepare at all, what does fasting for that length of time do to your body, particularly with an artificially cranked up metabolism?
*** The main effect of the long hours of dancing and metabolism being faster, increased pulse/blood pressure etc are going to be mainly the release of cortisol which is a catabolic hormone that eats away at muscle tissue after 60 minutes of high intensity exercise
which is the most damaging thing. The damage mostly occurs after exercise, say 1 hour to 2 hours after however this is a bit different when dancing as you may have a good 20-30 mins of going hard, then rest for a while, so it gets released, then blocked when you dance again, then released when you have a break, so I guess the best way to combat that, is to get some protein and carbs into your body if you are having more than (to be on the safe side) 40 minutes rest while out, to get some protein and carbs into you, and when the night is over, same as above. There is little you can do preparation-wise because to train your body to use fat stores for energy rather than deplete carbs etc is something that takes a while, and hard training, the average punter should really just try to periodically eat some carbs and protein throughout the night if possible and to do the same afterwards if at all possible. For those of us who just cannot stomach food, if you can get a big glass of milk and milo down or a protein shake..that will still make a big difference!*****
 
Good advice Roquen!
I guess there is also a practical dimension to self care at a rave:
1) Pass out mights not always be viable/permitted at certain times. This is where pre-packaged goodies such as power bar gel (incl 40mhg caffeine), gu carb gel (both used by endurance type atheltes) can be invaluable. Theyre small and can fit into most pockets and bum bags. (Can be expensive for some punters though @ $2-50 each) Alternatively, goodies like milo bars, snakes, jelly babies etc can provide some much needed carbs (but result in a much sharper insulin spike). Dried banana chippies are good too.
Be careful with the gu/powerbar gel and carb/protein bars like Mushashi, Aussie Bodies, PowerBar as they can suck a lot of water into your gut to digest. More so with the bars than the gel.
2) If able to go out side and you have come in a car, you can be more prepared. I usually have soft canned fruit like mangoes, fresh bananas, rice pudding, pre-made protein shakes (try Aussie Bodies - milk/whey based about 30gms carbs and 40gms protein, about $3-00 a pop and can get at most Coles and Woolies and health food stores). I also enjoy a coffee... no real performance enhancement - just like sitting down outside with a good coffee chillin talking absolute whatever!!
3)If no car and there is a convenience store somewhere, try scoring a sustagen, maybe some chippies (good for replacing lost sodium through sweating), flavoured milk, fresh fruit iv available. If your'e near the Golden Arches try some fries, muffin, maybe a sundae (beware insulin spike).
4) As for me personally I have never really had dry mouth but used to get bird cage mouth from too many chuppies!! Have been munching on Vicks lollies for years now and think theyre great (good at clearing out sinus too!).
5) The day after I pretty much eat instinctively, usually soft foods (scrambled eggs are gr 8) . Carb/protein intake pretty much 50/50. I graze rather than gorge and get lots of rest.
6) To really listen to what your body is saying to you is key - it is THAT important- especially in a hot room or during summer (especially doofs and outdoor events). If you are one of those people who can be self-aware and a bit disciplined to take care of your self (even when rolling - yes, it can be done!) then share the love and keep an eye on your friends and the other punters around you!!! (Its a good way to make new friends too!)
<Panda Out>
 
Hi guys.
Last night was *, and I thought it would be cool to experiment eating while rolling.
I only ate a banana, but damn, it made HEAPS of difference. As soon as I ate it, my tum tum was ever so soothed. I had another banana on the way home in the train, and when I cam home I had some yoghurt and heaps of water. Then the amazing thing was that I slept... perfectly. Normally after I roll, I half sleep, half dream.. but this time I just slept like a baby - and I was still rolling on the train home, so I am pretty amazed. Did eating somehow reset my body clock? perhaps it got my metabolism back into normal working order!?
Anyways... just thought I would let you know how eating while rolling affected me... and I fully recommend having a banana after half way though the night. I thought it might make me spew, but it totally eased my tummy!
Cheers
Pendulum
[Edit: Venue details removed. Please read the Guidelines. BigTrancer]
[ 02 March 2003: Message edited by: BigTrancer ]
 
we used to always take a 10-pack of wizz-fizz (sherbet!) to parties, and hand them out after a few hard hours. i always found it boosted my energy levels for a while, and it's damn tasty, too!
as for post night-out, i'm going to have to get into the protein shakes i think. i'm very lean and don't have much fat stored for energy, and being a middle-distance runner i don't like the feeling of my training slipping away as i burn muscle off my skinny legs.
bananas are great, yes. so is drinking yoghurt, up'n'go, gatorade powder and scrambled eggs (not all at once though).
 
i cant eat either bananas or up n go's, which makes my life more tricky. but, if i dont eat by about midday on the day after, i will get violently ill for hours.
one of my happiest mdma moments was eating a nectarine, so i try to get those if they're in season, or peaches.
mostly, i eat a lot of soup. mainly spring vegetable, no creamy no tomato-y. soup is the best of all possible worlds - it's food. it's fluid. it has vegetables. you can eat it with no saliva. it doesnt taste like up n go!
i also like the raisin toast with lots of butter (no crusts). you'd be amazed how good it is. i find vegemite on (crustless) toast oddly alluring.
for some reason i also lean toward mint aero bars if nothing else is available. dont ask me how i get it in, i DONT know. :)
 
Someone mentioned Peanut butter on toast as a good food source for after a hardcore night. One day after coming home from some serious dancing I was realllllly craving peanut butter on toast. So i made myself one piece and added some honey on the top. I never eat this but it was really what my body wanted. I washed it down with a couple of glasses of juice and about an hr later I hurled everything back up. I don't know whether it was cause the juice was too acidic on my stomach and it just couldn't handle it or what the go was but I didn't feel at all like eating for the rest of the day. After that anything that I ate I could only eat a couple of mouth fulls of it and that was the story for a couple of days. It was horrible. I was smoking sooo much weed and I still couldn't eat anything.
So just be aware people, peanut butter can be evil :)
 
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