EADD Theology Megathread

[pinkpapaver]

i've eaten jesus...an i'm waitin to meet him

 

[ColtDan]

neither you or crackhead are particulary bright...im superior in every aspect.your clearly intellectually challenged i dont judge you for that but i advise you to goto bed

I had to lol at this. that is some seriously arrogant shit

The life cycle of the human is so insignificant and yet so massive, our deaths will be the smallest and biggest things to ever happen to us and thats what it all boils down to, good old cheery death

yep. we'd better make the most of it cos life is fragile. the older ive gotten and from experiences im no longer scared of death, just how painful it might be. im not religious but before i rip up a dmt pipe full of decent blast off stuff i pray to nature and prepare to die. the closest thing id ever get to meeting "god" or whatever, i dunno much about the origins of religion but maybe it stems from ego death trips

 

[acieed_ed]

I had to lol at this. that is some seriously arrogant shitps

morning dan my own intelligence was insulted in the previous posting so i insulted his intelligence right back.
i wasnt really being arrogant i was giving back what i had got i dont equate religious belief or non belief with intelligence
im sure we are all smart boyos and all that.
nomore fighting

 

[parttime crackhead]

 

[Shippy420]

Could God make 1 + 1 = 6 if he wanted to? I'd like to know that shit

Also, ya know Jesus went to that wedding party thing and turned some water into wine so it was a more awesome party? If he were to come to a party I was throwing today, If I wracked up some lines of sugar onto a table would he turn them into top notch cocaine for me if I asked him nicely?

 

[Treacle]

My last post was deleted, and I suppose it was pretty harsh, but I still stand by it. What you said was out of line, acieed, and you can pretend it was meant as pure sympathy, but it clearly wasn't. As I said to you via PM, I don't think you're a good Christian. Especially since you said you now have no sympathy and I was going on ignore. How Christian of you! Most atheists are better Christians than you. You obviously can't read this, as I'm on ignore, so there shouldn't be a response. Hallelujah! Sorry for upsetting the thread with my shite. :D

 

[Shambles]

Could God make 1 + 1 = 6 if he wanted to?

I think the standard modern Christian view is that god can't do things which are not logically possible so no. Is a way of sidestepping a number of awkward questions. One awkward question it doesn't sidestep... Can god kill himself? Makes no difference if you don't think he'd ever want to it's a question about what such a being is capable of not what his psychology is. If he can kill himself then he's not immortal. If he can't then he's not omnipotent - even I would have a power that a supposedly all-powerful being doesn't. So which is it? Mortal or not all-powerful?

 

[parttime crackhead]

 

[Raasyvibe]

^ PTCH, as most of us here want to actually gain something, improve our understanding and help others, perhaps you could act a little more maturely if you want to join in? If you have an interest in theology and have something to add, great. But wouldn't it be more approriate if you actually responded to posts rather than digging out endless pictures and memes off Google?

My last post was deleted, and I suppose it was pretty harsh, but I still stand by it. What you said was out of line, acieed, and you can pretend it was meant as pure sympathy, but it clearly wasn't. As I said to you via PM, I don't think you're a good Christian. Especially since you said you now have no sympathy and I was going on ignore. How Christian of you! Most atheists are better Christians than you. You obviously can't read this, as I'm on ignore, so there shouldn't be a response. Hallelujah! Sorry for upsetting the thread with my shite. :D

There was no need for him to act like that, but in fairness he's only responding to how he was treated. We all have different opinions here, and I invite any challenges to my own understanding. It's nice to be challenged, and personally gives me a chance to reconsider theological points and expand on them.

When someone thinks they're superior because of their opinion, and tries to make an enemy of those who oppose it the thread becomes somewhat degenerative.

 

[pinkpapaver]

for me it's a toss up beteen shiva, zeus and Allan. that's what it looks like.

in other news. don't you think these orthodox jews look like the amish folk?

we're all the same our parents are our gods coz they made us.

 

[pinkpapaver]

I know this is a monumentally difficult concept to grasp* but God is above logic. God created the universe including its rules. I think there could be realms where logic is tweaked lol... Think of the light spectrum. I know its a rather base example but what can be visibly seen is completely different in multiple ways. How would you describe the spectrum to a blind man.

I don't know the answer to the second question

* let me reassure you that that was not meant to be patronising

see that can be the hard bit for a logical brain. and that explains yet doesn't explain so much.

 

[Shambles]

The problem with saying that god is "above logic" (whatever that could possibly mean - is kinda nonsensical though) is then you open yourself up for a gazillion awkward questions. All that "Can god make a rock so heavy he couldn't lift it?" and indeed "Can god make 1 + 1 = 6?" kinda stuff. If the answer is anything other than "Well obviously not" then he becomes an even more ridiculous concept than usual.

As for explaining the light spectrum to a blind man, there are many possibilities but basically by analogy, I'd imagine. Perhaps by using vibration or sound waves to suggest different frequencies. I'm not blind and have a basic understanding of the electro-magnetic spectrum but how that translates into the experience of seeing things in visible light is not something I can really grasp for myself tbh.

 

[parttime crackhead]

^ PTCH, as most of us here want to actually gain something, improve our understanding and help others, perhaps you could act a little more maturely if you want to join in? If you have an interest in theology and have something to add, great. But wouldn't it be more approriate if you actually responded to posts rather than digging out endless pictures and memes off Google?

I have responded properly to many points/posts in this thread. I'm ever so fucking sorry if I happened to see a picture posted on Twitter (I did not go Google image searching to find it) which I felt was relevant to the discussion in this thread. Would it all have been OK if I'd re-typed it instead of posting the image? Does a jpg over text offend you?

omg someone pinch me tell me he never said...
look treacle here is my 100% honest and non angry response.
i feel bad now...you provoked me in the most outrageous way possible and got a reaction after my patience and thinking he doesnt mean that ... his pov doesnt wind me up or make me angry at all but you did suceed in getting me to lower myself to ur level...purely btw to see how it grabbed you when the shoe was on other foot not my style im a nice bloke but push anyone too far and see what happens ..
the mad thing is i can tell you despise me so much..it actually upsets me a little knowing i would still help you at any level if i could .dont waste your energy hating me try to be positive.
i have walked through fire helping very vunerable and even suicidal friends at my own expense...my own life was going down the swanney cos i hated myself but still did everything to help my friends.
i am dreadful christian riiite..
i would have layed down my own life if it could have saved my best pals.
i am cunt alright...a horrible bloke .

pm me if u wish...i will add it to my 999,999,999 list of things to read..shocker u hate me and i am devil incarnate...yawn.

quick ps..i find it very amusing that you still accuse me of being drunk..
i gave up alchol in 1998 after i had my stomach pumped and had a terrible expierence..
i had a few pints as witnessed by my photo here.my then gf told me you may take e and coke like a champ but real men drink...sorry didnt realise it was 1950 not the late 2000's

You act like a drunk tbh. I know you don't drink, as you keep telling us, but you might as well be pished with the aggressive shite you hit out with. People often mistake the way I talk/type as being overly aggressive & I totally understand this, I don't blame people for that as I can see how it's quite easy to think that. I do say things in an aggressive manner at times (mainly just being a bit confrontational in my approach to things & swearing too much) but I certainly never say things the way you do. Things like "You wouldn't say that to my face" (meaning, I'd hit you if you were in front of me) or "I've met Glaswegians, they'd stab you in the neck" (I'm paraphrasing but that's basically what you said). Also, fuck knows why you had to mention that you've met both Rangers & Celtic fans, what in the name of fuck does football have to do with it? (Aye, I know that question should be asked to plenty "religious" folk from my fine city, but it's totally irrelevant to this thread or any discussion any of us have had here).

You're a cunt & you act like a drunken cunt. If you were drunk & not constantly on eckies or other similar drugs then it would make more sense & actually be more forgivable imo. You try to hit out with the "You're a keyboard gangster" style patter while doing exactly that yourself & not realising that it's not something I do at all. I just say cunt too much. I never imply or threaten violence, except in a 100% joking way.

Edit - That's in reply to several posts over the past few pages from this muppet about me or directed towards me, not really to the one I've quoted. I was going to leave it as he'd made enough of a fool of himself anyway but fuck it.

 

[Treacle]

I thought it was just me, but it's not. What a surprise. acieed: I don't hate or despise you, or think you're the devil(!?). I don't know you. I just know that *insert Crackhead's post*. Now, try and play nice, eh?

 

[pinkpapaver]

belief itself is a very personal thing. it does give people comfort, and there are many people who believe and don't go all mad about it. it can help keep families togetther.

 

[Shambles]

Certainly can keep families together - for both good and bad. Can also tear families apart. Can definitely bring comfort. And can cause terrible anguish and torment both to the individual and to others. Can be a very personal thing, and can be forced onto others and worse. Personally I think there are far better ways to get the good stuff and avoid the bad stuff.

 

[acieed_ed]

thanks for being so understanding i knew u would see sense ptch.
your the voice of reason again.
you and that other boyo insulted me every way from sunday did u think i will take it forever...incorrect. im glad to see your not an abnoxious bellend now tho...u lads made a cunt of me and got a reaction..
new rule i will ignore you...vice versa prob solved.
i havnt time for negative people.
peace

sorry if i went ott you caught me on a rough day boys. there is no violoence or hate. i am tired of disrespect...two way street i will be polite u be polite and we put this behind us.
take care

 

[Raasyvibe]

Sorry I've missed 4 pages worth here. You can't blink without a new page added. When were the days of? http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/109935-What-s-worst-about-the-USA?p=2205539&viewfull=1#post2205539

9 pages, 200+ posts . . . quite possibly a record for EUKADD

________________________________________________
Right, less arguing and stupid memes; more theology baby.

I didn't say it was set up so we'd all fail, I said it was set up heavily skewed to making failing "the test" almost inevitible for anybody who really looks into this stuff. Expecting faith in the face of all evidence to the contrary. That's perverse.

No, that's your personal interpretation of theology. Others (such as myself) read into it very differently. If the theology was flawed and problematic, I wouldn't be a Christian. If it didn't make sense, I wouldn't be a Christian. Yes, like you, there's been a lot of verses and concepts i've questioned. But I've always found answers.

Don't think I said "these ramblings are just your own intepretations" did I? If I put it like that I can only assume I was drunk and stroppy so apologise.

Right.... just how many of these posts you make are "drunk and stroppy"? lol

I presume what I meant was that I didn't see how you arrived at your interpretations - why you chose to accept some parts of scripture and not others. Having it both ways, as it were. Saying that the "bad" OT stuff must have been altered or interpolated (them bleedin' pharisees at it again ) for example. How do you know?

When I read the bible, I see that some of the verses in the OT are the absolute antithesis to what Jesus is preaching. So something fishy is going on. Bit of reading makes it clear that man has interfered with the old texts somewhat.

I'm not a scholar, and don't think it's neccessary to question the theology so much that I need to find out which rule has been added exactly by which (bleedin') pharisee. The very fact that Jesus is refuting the "law" and disobeying it is enough evidence for me that it is not always "the word of God".

Basically, what is your interpretation/answer/belief to the questions and objections raised by myself and others, how and why you chose those particular interpretations/answers/objections over others and why those alternatives are wrong.

The posts between us I have never "picked and chose" interpretations. Just delivered the only practical meaning, supported by many other verses in the bible.

Yes he does. He didn't have to create such a place (obviously I don't believe he did anything due to lack of existence but we'll take that as read, eh? ). It was a choice and he apparently decided that eternal torment was the best option and make it incredibly easy (by many interpretations anyway - I know there is a very wide range of beliefs about Hell and precious little actually said about it in the book) to be sent there too for good measure. Infinite punishment for finite crimes as it's often succinctly put. By definition this is unjust.

At the end of the day we don't know how hell works exactly, and as you said there's little said in the book. I have a few ideas. From a Christian perspective: Clearly, God has allowed evil on this world, and allowed the consequences of it in the next.

It may seem unjust in theory, but if we knew more about it (Just what is the suffering like, and who goes there and why) it would make more sense.

Not fair to form opinions on hell without this knowledge, though when I see despicable evil and suffering in this world it certainly makes it very easy for me to believe in.

When I spoke of large sections of the Bible being demonstrably untrue I was talking about the obvious stuff: Garden of Eden, The Flood, The Exodus and so on. Probably the majority of the OT can certainly be shown not to have ever happened. Or if it did all traces of evidence have been miracled out of existence so it looks that way (which would again be rather perverse to say the least). Some of this stuff is absolutely fundamental to the theology so is not just a few unimportant quibbles. Not even the standard response that such sections must be metaphorical, allegorical, poetic and so on really cuts it either. How is it determined which parts are not to be taken too literally? If there was no Adam and Eve there was no Fall, no Fall no need for the Crucifiction. That's fairly fundamental stuff. And if most of the... more "out there" OT stuff is meant as metaphorical lessons then why are they such bad lessons? Why is wickedness and immorality so frequently rewarded and held up as something to aspire to?

The truth behind the bible is found in the meanings of the stories. How true the actual stories are is very debatable.
(sorry to give the standard response here, but it cuts it for me. I'd be more worried about my Christiannity if the stories were real, but the meanings were nonsense)

Yeah it's a strange old book, and one i've neglected studying in (It's sooooo big)

Let me give you one example. David, Gods faithful servant and ruler, In the bible he makes one small sin. (He made a census of his army, counted how many men he had... which is apparantly a lack of faith in God)

Now God, being a bit of a quirky mood, rather than just tell him off - was so kind to give David a choice of three punishments - seven years of famine, three months of fleeing before his enemies, or three days of plague (apparantly there was a fourth *mystery* punishment, that never got into the bible)

Dave, rather being punished by God over man, goes for punishment number 3. A plague. Which then ends up killing 70,000 men.

Thats got to be the stupidest story i've ever read in my life. 70,000 men die because of one mans venial sin. In fact i've never read anything remotey absurd.

Yet as nonsense as it is, it's making the point that God punishes for love and to improve us (Like father to his son), rather than man who punishes out of spite. and even great servants of God can fall for pride and lack of faith.

You can draw meaning from the stupidest stories. But yes I will agree, you've got to be quite serious about your Christiannity to study these books and "gain" from them

I have to assume that's a joke? Disbelief makes people more inclined to evil acts? Really? Cos believers are so well behaved in comparison, I'm sure :D

I'll skip the blindingly obvious stuff (Crusades, Inquisitions, genocides, etc) and stick to a modern example not a million miles from your own - Andrea Yates. Difference being that she did what she did as a direct result of her religious convictions. Ian Brady was a deviant in many ways and Myra Hindley was easily led and probably somewhat sociopathic. I'm sure it might help a bit to lack belief in a vengeful god to do shit like that but I'm guessing he'd have done it anyway. The charming Ms Yates did what she did because she totally believed in a vengeful god and a Fallen world and genuinely thought she was doing the only sane thing out of love (I'm assuming some degree of mental illness must've been involved too but she wasn't just another psychopathic killer like Brady/Hindley - mental illness + strong religious beliefs = trouble). Not saying one is worse than t'other, just that to say disbelief makes one more prone to evil acts is just so far wide of the mark it's untrue. People do terrible things for any number of reasons and religious reasons are worryingly common.

Of course I'm aware of spiritual abusers, shammy.

I'm making the case that hiding God exposes more sin. The Moors murders was off the top of my head, a case where Brady's disbelief in God was a motive. Even recently, he was irrate with Hindley when he heard of her becoming Catholic in jail.

But hiding God serves other purposes in less extreme ways. Simply, for people who enjoy sinful lives, atheism becomes a great convenience for them. Think of people with much wealth, if they called themselves Christian they would have to change, else they will look like bad Christians. Saying "I don't believe in God" is a great excuse for those who want to lead sinful lives.

 

[Shambles]

Best response from you so far imo, Raas. Will disagree strongly with parts of it in a bit though, naturally

Good to be moving the debate on a bit rather than getting bogged down in namecalling and stuff too

 

[pinkpapaver]

Originally posted by Hellman

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki is the most brutal single act of crime in the history of mankind.
more people were killed by samari swords in WWII than the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki....

still VERY VERY wrong, but just something to think about

i think just about everything is wrong with this country, i should know, i live here. all i know is if i ever have kids i will NOT raise them here.

but like you've mentioned, alot of the people here a good people, just unfortunate victims.



found in the thread mehtioned by raas