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EADD Heroin discussion v.20 -- You've come a long way baby

blondin said:
nah ...to do with bacteria. Having receptors doesn't mean that that part of the body produces the chemicals that bind to it.
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Damn, wish I could read the article. So is it saying that bacteria produce opiate like chemicals? Help me out here fellers..

Edit: from your hints, I'm guessing that it's been discovered that certain gut bacteria produce opiate like metabolites which bind to the receptors in the human gut which have evolved due to the symbiotic relationship between us and these bacteria - otherwise we would be in a state of constant diarrhoea without them... Yes, no?
 
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I don't really know mate without reading the article.
You kind of said that the efficacy of lope while in WDs was due to its affinity's for the receptors in the gut but this only really makes it beneficial for stopping the runs. Lope helps the main physiological and psychological symptoms by its binding to CNS receptors (which it does very poorly hence its not a wonder cure). If you had an opiate that ONLY bonded to the gut receptors its would be very little help during WDs (except to relieve diahorria) as its the CNS effects of opiates that releave withdrawl.

I cant see bow bacteria could release opiates under any circumstances though. I guess its possible for chemicals produced by the bacteria to react in the gut with exogenous orally consumed opiates and convert them do a different opiate.....like if the gut produced acetic anhydride and you consumed oral morphine the heroin could be produced in the gut..... But I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen.

I wish I could read the article as well now!!!
 
The article



Semisynthetic derivatives of morphine and related alkaloids are in widespread clinical use. Due to the complexity of these molecules, however, chemical transformations are difficult to achieve in high yields. We recently identified the powerful analgesic hydromorphone as an intermediate in the metabolism of morphine by Pseudomonas putida M10. Here we describe the construction of recombinant strains of Escherichia coli that express morphine dehydrogenase and morphinone reductase. These strains are capable of efficiently transforming the naturally occurring alkaloids morphine and codeine to hydromorphone and the antitussive hydrocodone, respectively. Our results demonstrate the potential for recombinant DNA technology to provide biological routes for the synthesis of known and novel semi-synthetic opiate drugs.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1. 1Institute of Biotechnology, University of Cambridge, Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1QT, U.K.
2. 2Present address: Department of Biochemistry, University of Wales, PO Box 903, Cardiff, CF1 1ST, U.K.
3. *Corresponding author.




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blondin said:
Knock yerself out mate : )

This is interesting (I do read alot of obscure suff) but our tummies can make heroin....sort of
http://www.nature.com/nbt/journal/v13/n7/abs/nbt0795-674.html
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For those that can't read the linky...

Nature said:
Research abstract

Nature Biotechnology 13, 674 - 676 (1995)
doi:10.1038/nbt0795-674

Biological Production of Semisynthetic Opiates Using Genetically Engineered Bacteria

Christopher E. French1, Anne M. Hailes1, Deborah A. Rathbone1, Marianne T. Long1, David L. Willey2 & Neil C. Bruce1, ,*
Abstract

Semisynthetic derivatives of morphine and related alkaloids are in widespread clinical use. Due to the complexity of these molecules, however, chemical transformations are difficult to achieve in high yields. We recently identified the powerful analgesic hydromorphone as an intermediate in the metabolism of morphine by Pseudomonas putida M10. Here we describe the construction of recombinant strains of Escherichia coli that express morphine dehydrogenase and morphinone reductase. These strains are capable of efficiently transforming the naturally occurring alkaloids morphine and codeine to hydromorphone and the antitussive hydrocodone, respectively. Our results demonstrate the potential for recombinant DNA technology to provide biological routes for the synthesis of known and novel semi-synthetic opiate drugs.

1Institute of Biotechnology, University of Cambridge, Tennis Court Road, Cambridge CB2 1QT, U.K.
2Present address: Department of Biochemistry, University of Wales, PO Box 903, Cardiff, CF1 1ST, U.K.
*Corresponding author.
Click to expand...
 
Aah, so my guess was pretty spot on :-)

Just to clarify, when I said loperamide was effective in withdrawals, I only meant its efficacy in easing the shits and stomach cramps - I didnt feel it necessary to elaborate as this remedy is well known and surprisingly effective, and every little bit of relief helps when yer rattling yer tits off.. :-)

It all makes sense really, I always wondered 'why have opiate receptors in your gut when there are no opiates to bind with them?' But in recent years, the importance of gut fauna has become apparent. As we've all evolved into a huge symbiotic colony, it makes sense that these bacteria are producing the drugs we need to keep our guts in regular motion. Guess this explains why the shits are a common side effect of antibiotic use.

Edit: I realise this is probably an oversimplified view of the situation, but it serves to illustrate just how important bacteria are in keeping us healthy...
 
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I have to admit my words 'tummies make heroin' was a bit of a Sun headline however it's a facinating discovery.

Without bacteria there would be no other life on the planet.
 
^QFT. The eukaryotic cells (containing a nucleus and organelles such as mitochondria) which make up our (and all other complex life forms on our planet) were formed from a symbiotic relationship between prokaryotic cells which had become specialised to perform the many functions necessary to evolve into the multicellular colonies we call our bodies.
 
Jve read this a couple of times and I think its just saying that the gut contains enzymes which can transform opiates into different opiate not that the gut 'makes opiates" itaelf.

Plus the receptors in the gut are sensitive to endorphins which are endogenous opiates but they are made in the CNS and pituitary gland.

I may be wrong but like i say I don't think the study is implying that but bacteria manufacture opiates as much as the make enzymes that convert opiates.

Other opinions welcome :)
 
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Yes, it seems that these bacteria are producing enzymes which convert the 'naturally occurring alkaloids morphine and codeine to hydromorphone and the antitussive hydrocodone respectively'. However, it doesn't state the source of morphine and codeine. Still, fascinating stuff...

Edit: by 'naturally occurring' it seems to imply 'endogenous', though this is by no means clear from what I can see.
 
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Yeah that's what I thought FUBAR.....

Unless by naturally occurring they are meaning naturally occurring alkaloids of the opium poppy (which morphine and codeine are)...as oppose to synthetic opiods like methadone or fentanyl
 
englandgz74 said:
Yeah that's what I thought FUBAR.....

Unless by naturally occurring they are meaning naturally occurring alkaloids of the opium poppy (which morphine and codeine are)...as oppose to synthetic opiods like methadone or fentanyl
Click to expand...

Interesting. Why is opium different in methadone as opposed to morphine?
 
Erikmen said:
Interesting. Why is opium different in methadone as opposed to morphine?
Click to expand...

Basically morphine is derived from opium which is a natural product of Papaver somniferum - the opium poppy, whereas methadone is totally synthetic.

Furthermore, the term 'opiates' refers to derivatives of opium, whereas 'opioids' refers to synthetic compounds.
 
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^^^ that

The opium poppy contains morphine codeine and thebane (and other non opiate alkaloids)...these are technically "opiates"....all synthetic compound (methadone etc.) are"opiods".... Although the terminology is often misused
 
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^ Arf! :-)

Englandgz, for someone who doesn't take drugs recreationally you're extremely clued up. I can understand your knowledge as a health care professional and user of various drugs for pain relief, but it seems to go beyond that. Are you sure you don't have a little dabble now and again? :-)
 
I'm POSITIVE mate.... My new gp is a cunt and tests me everytime I see him to get my painkillers
.
Never failed a test once....

I'm very interested in drugs from a healthcare and human. behaviour standpoint.

I'm very interested in guns as well but I don't go out and shoot people hshaha!! :)
 
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