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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

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parttime crackhead said:
He might have grew to hate us over thousands of years.

How can you say "He could just destroy us" when you totally dismiss people saying "He could just help everyone".
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You make a good point about "he could just destroy us", but I mean he could just not have created us and never given us a chance. He would afterall know that he would grow to hate us.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
I don't know where the chip on your shoulder came from? I am not a creationist btw. He knew billions would suffer if he allowed us free will, yes. But the whole point is free will. If we assume God knows everything, then God probably knows that everything will be OK in the end.
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There is no chip on my shoulder. I don't know why you've inferred that, I'm very sorry if I've come accross that way, honestly. I entered the discussion with YPDH, she has not been too coherant, and you have taken the role of christian champion, so my posts often quote you.

So you are not a creationist, you do not believe in a God that directly intervines in life, but one that has left us to it? You are very close to freeing yourself of the need to believe in a creator God at all, good man.

Also being OK in the end is a bit late for billions of poor souls
 
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shotguns badandwicked


I sleep with one eye open george.. THankyou so much though!

Just going for a cruise on lycos to see if I can find Leonardo. Man the ship crew until I get back :)
 
There are so many Troll God meme pictures out there I can't belive no one with the ability to post images has done so.
 
Furious George said:
There is no chip on my shoulder. I don't know why you've inferred that, I'm very sorry if I've come accross that way, honestly. I entered the discussion with YPDH, she has not been too coherant, and you have taken the role of christian champion, so my posts often quote you.

So you are not a creationist, you do not believe in a God that directly intervines in life, but one that has left us to it? You are very close to freeing yourself of the need to believe in a creator God at all, good man.

Also being OK in the end is a bit late for billions of poor souls
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I really didn't want to take on the role of Christian champion. It is a pointless and fruitless debate that could go round and round in circles. I accept you, and others, are atheists, so can't you just accept that I and others are Christian? Afterall I have evidenced that even if it is a bunch of balony it is getting better results for those suffering than atheism.
 
Furious George said:
There are so many Troll God meme pictures out there I can't belive no one with the ability to post images has done so.
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Haha

eSKho.jpg
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
Like I said, if it were that easy to make up facts, you are more than welcome to show me an atheist who has done this to prove your side of the argument. Gallup also confirm these findings:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/111013/Worldwide-Highly-Religious-More-Likely-Help-Others.aspx
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That's pretty misleading blunts. The questions in that Gallup poll don't really confirm anything of the sort. I think the fundamental problem with Arthurs claims (and that gallup poll) is that it's confusing "religious giving" with "charity". They are two quite distinct things coming from very different motivations.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
I really didn't want to take on the role of Christian champion. It is a pointless and fruitless debate that could go round and round in circles. I accept you, and others, are atheists, so can't you just accept that I and others are Christian? Afterall I have evidenced that even if it is a bunch of balony it is getting better results for those suffering than atheism.
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I totally accept that people are Christian, I don't want them to stop being Christian, I am just interested in how rational people (yourself) reconcile such beliefs with their day to day experience of reality.

I don't accept that giving slightly more dough to charity constitutes an overall "better result for those suffereing" when compared to secular aid. Particularly when one factors in the harm caused by religious influence on such programs with issues such as contraception. Not to mention cultural erosion with schemes that pair food aid with mandatory Bible classes.
 
Ismene said:
That's pretty misleading blunts. The questions in that Gallup poll don't really confirm anything of the sort. I think the fundamental problem with Arthurs claims (and that gallup poll) is that it's confusing "religious giving" with "charity". They are two quite distinct things coming from very different motivations.
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How is that misleading? It's a survey done on thousands upon thousands of people comparing the rate at which they give with the rate at which they believe, and it's pretty clear cut. When you look at the world, you can see that it is the religious going the extra mile. There isn't a Mother Theresa of atheism as far as I am aware.
 
Furious George said:
I totally accept that people are Christian, I don't want them to stop being Christian, I am just interested in how rational people (yourself) reconcile such beliefs with their day to day experience of reality.

I don't accept that giving slightly more dough to charity constitutes an overall "better result for those suffereing" when compared to secular aid. Particularly when one factors in the harm caused by religious influence on such programs with issues such as contraception. Not to mention cultural erosion with schemes that pair food aid with mandatory Bible classes.
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For the most part the only real influence Christians have had on issues such as contraception has been to not give it out in certain places. They have preached don't wear condoms to many people, that is correct. But this has gone hand in hand with telling those not to wear condoms to only take one partner, if they are going to sleep around (which is primarily how HIV/AIDS is spread) and disregard the one partner rule they clearly don't believe in it enough to say that is the reason these people don't wear condoms. If there is more money in the charity pot, then that constitutes more help and a better result for those suffering.
 
Ismene said:
Not for those suffering from AIDS who need to wear condoms tho.
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I have no problem with condoms, and most Christian charities give them out. It is only the Catholic church who refuses to. You might have a point if AIDS was the only issue, but the money they don't spend on condoms is hardly just burnt. It's spent on food and education. You are more than welcome to fill the condom gap in the market.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
How is that misleading?
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Because it asks the question "have you volunteered your time to an organisation" as tho that has anything to do with a charity. It could just be a faith-based organisation, which obviously people with faith will devote their time to.

There isn't a Mother Theresa of atheism as far as I am aware.

Thank god for that! Don't get me started on Mother Theresa. Read a few articles about the hellholes she ran - where disabled children were tied up and left in agony because she believed suffering brought them closer to god.
 
Ismene said:
Because it asks the question "have you volunteered your time to an organisation" as tho that has anything to do with a charity. It could just be a faith-based organisation, which obviously people with faith will devote their time to.

There isn't a Mother Theresa of atheism as far as I am aware.

Thank god for that! Don't get me started on Mother Theresa. Read a few articles about the hellholes she ran - where disabled children were tied up and left in agony because she believed suffering brought them closer to god.
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Yes, just gloss over this:
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I think you are being slightly misleading here. Please, if I am wrong, do show me the studies that contradict all of the ones I have posted. There are many more, but I don't think a mountain would convince you somehow.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
Yes, just gloss over this:
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But as I've explained - is that charity or religious giving? Obviously people will contribute money to causes they think will furthur their superstitions. That doesn't make it charity.

I think you need to find a study that understands the difference between charity and religious giving. All the ones you've mentioned so far deliberately confuse the two.

And what do you think "help a stranger" means? That could just mean you've brought someone to your church or prayed for someone, or stood out in the town center shouting about your superstition to passersby. Of course the highly religious will score more heavily.
 
Ismene said:
But as I've explained - is that charity or religious giving? Obviously people will contribute money to causes they think will furthur their superstitions. That doesn't make it charity.

I think you need to find a study that understands the difference between charity and religious giving. All the ones you've mentioned so far deliberately confuse the two.

And what do you think "help a stranger" means? That could just mean you've brought someone to your church or prayed for someone, or stood out in the town center shouting about your superstition to passersby. Of course the highly religious will score more heavily.
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Yes you can try and refute it and split hairs, saying what type of giving is it etc. But then you look at the other studies and see that they give more to all types of charities.

http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/6577
 
Those stats are based on self reporting. Don't you think those who have reported themselves as Highly Religious might overstate their charitable activities? Someone wishing to project a holy image is less likely to admit that they don't help as much as Jesus would have liked them to. They might also interpret their weekly donation at the church as an act of charity.

Those stats do not say what you think they are saying. What was the sample group?
 
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