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E-Cig Vapor can Contain Toxic Metals

I thought it was quite well established that nicotine isn't exactly toxic to humans in small doses but it does have an effect on the cardiovascular system (in much the same way a cup of coffee might).

Obviously a nicotine overdose is a bad thing, but the amounts absorbed through smoking or vaping, while messing about with your reward brain circuitry don't exactly harm you. I saw a study a while back saying it has some potential as a treatment for Alzheimer's actually, so just like atropine, there may yet be a medicinal use.
 
Nicotine "may have" medicinal uses, I don't refute this. New-age ADHD medications may be nACHr alpha 7 subunit partial agonists, etc.

Unfortunately, the psychological and physical dependence nicotine creates makes any serious investigation into these chemicals unlikely.
 
Nicotine "may have" medicinal uses, I don't refute this. New-age ADHD medications may be nACHr alpha 7 subunit partial agonists, etc.

Unfortunately, the psychological and physical dependence nicotine creates makes any serious investigation into these chemicals unlikely.

Translation: its bad politically to permit information that gives a positive impression, or even a not negative impression of nicotine come into existence.

Which is why I am hardly convinced by the study suggesting it's carcinogenic.
 
Something I’ve definitely noticed about vaping nicotine is that the device used makes a huge difference in terms of quality of vapor, including health side effects. Not taking proper care of the device is a big issue, and frankly I bet a lot of these issues come from old device tech and maintenance issues.

I’d be curious to learn more about the newer tech that has become more commonplace over the last two or three years. Seems like the vast majority of studies use original ecig tech from many many years ago. They have ironed out a lot of issues now, and although I have no illusion it’s entirely risk free I wouldn’t be surprised if the risks are now slightly lower (when the stuff is properly used/maintained and high quality juice is used).
 
This is kind of eerie. A friend of mine had major health problems in the past year. He got his hair and urine tested and it was revealed that he had elevated arsenic in his body. He smokes e-cigarettes. His MD is doing a chelation protocol but I don't know if anybody has suggested he stop smoking the device.
 
This is kind of eerie. A friend of mine had major health problems in the past year. He got his hair and urine tested and it was revealed that he had elevated arsenic in his body. He smokes e-cigarettes. His MD is doing a chelation protocol but I don't know if anybody has suggested he stop smoking the device.

Well I am glad I posted this.

Does your friend have $? He could get his device and liquid tested. Perhaps. Not sure who would do that.

Hopefully he stops. Tell him to stop and explain the possible connection.
 
One could, if buying some basic glassware, boiling tubes, stoppers with holes and glass tubing, plus a torch to decompose the exit gases, test for arsenic both easily and with very high sensitivity (its also able to differentiate between arsenic, antimony, and bismuth) using the Marsh test. Its quite old, from the days of wet chemistry in analytical assays, rather than ICP-MS, NMR, GC-MS etc. but its capable of detecting as little as 20 micrograms of arsenic in a sample (be sure to burn the exit gases with a flame, since they will contain nicotine vapor, and nicotine is quite toxic.)

The basic glass tubes and the like, plus a few very basic chemicals, all available on ebay for very little, and one can differentiate arsenic from (also toxic) antimony, a deposit of arsenic will dissolve from the walls of the sample tube upon the action of sodium hypochlorite (household bleach) whereas one of antimony will not. Although neither are elements one wishes to be inhaling.
 
JessFR, you don't believe that nicotine is toxic?

Well I have news for you. Pure nicotine is about as toxic as potassium cyanide, or to white phosphorus by weight, with a lethal dose for either in an adult male human being around 40-60mg. And its also absorbed very easily through intact skin in event of dermal exposure.
 
JessFR, you don't believe that nicotine is toxic?

Well I have news for you. Pure nicotine is about as toxic as potassium cyanide, or to white phosphorus by weight, with a lethal dose for either in an adult male human being around 40-60mg. And its also absorbed very easily through intact skin in event of dermal exposure.

I believe that toxic is a word misused constantly by ignorant people. Botox is an even deadlier poison than nicotine, but there are safe ways to use it. Lots of substances are deadly in high doses but have perfectly safe uses. I've already mentioned several. Scopolamine, morphine, and many many others as I mentioned in an earlier post. I believe that nicotine is a mild stimulant not unlike caffeine and that the anti smoking nuts with no understanding of chemistry demonize it among countless other substances based on nothing but their ignorance.

I believe that's what you're doing now and they you and many others don't even yourselves have a coherent meaning of the word toxic. It means "any substance that can kill you that I don't like". In other words it may be no more dangerous a substance chemically than many others used every day but the difference is one is demonized.

Because for years we have conflate nicotine and tobacco smoke. Even though chemically they are extremely different. And I've seen little compelling evidence or reason to think nicotine is carcinogenic in which case it is no more toxic than say, morphine. Hell, too much water can kill you. I'm not interested in scary buzzwords or people's irrational fears. I'm interested in the reality of the chemistry.

So to answer your question, I don't think in terms of toxic or not toxic. I think such thoughts are hideously simplified to the point of being near useless. Especially given how missed they are by the public.
 
JessFR, you don't believe that nicotine is toxic?

Well I have news for you. Pure nicotine is about as toxic as potassium cyanide, or to white phosphorus by weight, with a lethal dose for either in an adult male human being around 40-60mg. And its also absorbed very easily through intact skin in event of dermal exposure.

Indeed.

nicotine has a relatively high toxicity in comparison to many other alkaloids such as caffeine, which has an LD50 of 127 mg/kg when administered to mice

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine#Overdose

I believe that nicotine is a mild stimulant not unlike caffeine

I posted statistics to disprove this notion.

Sorry, you are incorrect.
 
By statistics do you mean the Wikipedia article? Not saying it doesn't count or anything like that I'm just honestly not sure if that's what you were referring too.

OK so, I said "not unlike" caffeine. Obviously this needs to be elaborated. Yes, pure nicotine can kill you very very easily. No sensible person would dispute that. And in that sense, yes it is more dangerous in a pure form than say, caffeine. But any drug has a therapeutic range between where it won't kill you and where if will.

For example, fentanyl and codeine are both painkillers that can be used safely, but unlike codeine fentanyl isn't something you'd wanna be playing around with in large doses in a pure form. Though really, caffeine is quite dangerous in its pure form as well. Pure caffeine can easily kill you if you're stupid about it.

But that doesn't make fentanyl toxin. Same is true of nicotine or caffeine. The question was if I consider it toxic. That a very small amount can kill you is not what I would inherently call toxic because many useful drugs exhibit that property. Botox is used medically and safely all around the world despite being one of the deadliest substances in existence. Again, dangerous but not toxic.

I avoid the use of the word toxic all together because of its significant misuse by the public, but if I were to use it, I would say that nicotine could only qualify if it's carcinogenic. Which I am far from convinced of.

I'm tempted to also say if it were inherently destructive to to life, but that's just too vague and prone to taking what I said out of context. Besides, there have been lots of drugs that have found medical use that previously were considered nothing but harmful.

I wouldn't use the word to describe alcohol either, but I'd say alcohol probably more rightfully warrants the term toxic more than nicotine does. But again, it's enormous misuse means I'd generally not use the word at all.
 
7.2 Toxicity
7.2.1 Human data
7.2.1.1 Adults
The mean lethal dose has been estimated to be 30
to 60 mg (0.5-1.0 mg/kg) (Gosselin, 1988).
7.2.1.2 Children
The lethal dose is considered to be about 10 mg
of nicotine (Arena, 1974).
7.2.2 Relevant animal data
Dog: oral LD50: 9.2 mg/kg
mouse: oral LD50: 3.3 mg/kg (RTECS, 1985-86)
rat: oral LD50: 50 mg/kg

http://www.inchem.org/documents/pims/chemical/nicotine.htm#PartTitle:7. TOXICOLOGY
 
Toxicity is the degree to which a chemical substance or a particular mixture of substances can damage an organism.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toxicity

Yes it is, but that meaning has been seriously distorted by the general public using to say things like gluten is toxic and sugar is toxic and any number of other things. Which is why I avoid the word entirely. Similar to the word organic with people talking about organic zinc and iron supplements and other retarded bs.

Toxins has become a catchall for pseudoscientific bullshit. "your body is full of toxins so buy this organic activated water to detox your system" etc etc. Used by idiots who don't even know what the periodic table is.
 
I do not vape nicotine, I vape cannabis oil but I have to admit that every time I do I feel like I am causing harm to my body from the aerosol component. I would love to have my pen/vapor tested! I have been wrestling with myself over this as I recently changed to vaping from edibles for sleep. It's so much easier and controllable when the effects are instant but I would go back to only edibles if I learned it was harming my body.
 
Just because people incorrectly use the word doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a correct use.
 
Jesse, I can ensure you that I most certainly have a perfectly good knowledge of the meaning of the word 'toxic'.

Albeit I've taken over a week off, because I recently hurt my foot, and that got infected too, resulting in a lot of swelling and awful pain. But I work with toxic (as in outright destructive to life, corrosive alkalis, strong acids, toxic gases, carcinogens and others like cyanides that are just outright poison)

I am a scientist by all inclination, I always have been. Run my own lab. And you can be totally confident also, that I was most certainly not conflating both tobacco smoke, and the output from a vape pen. Nicotine alone, is highly toxic on a weight basis. Of a similar level of toxicity for the lethal dosages for nicotine, for cyanides and for white phosphorus to be quite similar.

As for your comparison to the likes of fentanyl etc. by weight they are toxic. However their primary action is as an opioid analgesic, and its a matter of what is known as the therapeutic index of a drug-the difference between a dose sufficient to provide a level of the drug in the body that both is sufficient to remedy the medical issue, get one high etc. (if you happen to like fentanyls, I find them rather bland, cold, clinical and soulless IMO, as well as having serious issues both with tolerance development and with tachyphylaxis) and the dose that will prove fatal or otherwise seriously harmful (not counting dependence, here I speak of acute toxic response such as dangerous degrees of respiratory depression)

I do know the difference. I might be a selfemployed chemist, but that doesn't change anything. I've been studying chemistry, biology and neurophysiology, psychopharmacology almost all my life. And I do indeed work with all manner of reagents and compounds of a most unpleasant nature in the course of various organic syntheses, likewise toxic, carcinogenic etc. reagents.
 
I'm not saying you don't understand the difference. Just that most of the ordinary population doesn't. If you wanna use the word toxic and have a clear definition of the term, that's all fine. And on that basis, sure, nicotine is a toxic substance. But the general population isn't quite so scientifically minded. I'm sure you know this already. You'd have to realize how poor most people's understanding of chemistry is and that they aren't exactly using a particularly clear definition of the word toxic.

So, if you wanna use it in a specific discussion where the meaning of the word is already understood between the participants, then that's all great. I have no problem with that at all. What I'm saying is outside of such a specific audience, I avoid the word all together because of how widely misused it is. And that the way most people imagine the word gives an inaccurate perception of nicotine.

OK, so, going by the definition you've given, sure, nicotine is toxic. But so are many other substances that are used relatively safely all the time. Which is not the way most people understand and use the word. Which is why I avoid using it. So I get what you're saying. But surely you'd agree that the way you'd use the word toxic in this sort of scientific context would be misleading to most ordinary people.

I haven't actually tried fentanyl to my knowledge. Thankfully it's still uncommon in the Australian heroin market. I used to get monthly drug tests when I was getting my methadone at a clinic and I always looked at the results. Only once did anything apart from 6-MAM and morphine show up in my system which I couldn't account for. As I recall it was a benzo, Valium I think. Must have been in an adulterant in some of the h I was using at the time. It had been unusually sedating so I wasn't that surprised. Just that one month though, never happened again.

Just because people incorrectly use the word doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a correct use.

Of course not. Although I generally consider word definitions fairly abstract and relative. Dictionaries eventually conform to the public not the other way around. So a wrong meaning today can be the right meaning tomorrow.

But yes, I agree that there's generally a correct usage of the term. And if everyone understood and followed it, I would too. But they don't, they consider toxic to just mean bad and to always be avoided and use it to mean any substance they imagine to be bad based on generally no better reason than what their social circle decides.

Since most people misuse it, for clarity in communication I avoid the word all together. Sure,if it's someone with a clear understanding like in this instance that's different. But in the real world sadly that's uncommon. And so if people have no idea what they mean using it, I'd rather not confuse them more.
 
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Well its one thing with the 'new age' crowd talking about 'flushing out and purging' nebulous, undefined 'toxins', that are never even explained or even close to given a structure or chemical identities. Just 'toxins' Thats bollocks.

As for fentanyl, its probably, by weight, somewhat more toxic than entry to mid-level organophosphate nerve agents on an acute basis, on a mg for mg basis. One might well even survive a percutaneous single milligram dose of VX, one of the most potent of the V-series nerve agents (its a thick, oily, viscous liquid, not so much a volatile inhalational threat but primarily VX is a contact poison used for area denial), not to say it'd be a good thing, but one may well survive. The same dose of fentanyl (even fent itself, never mind superpotent analogs of it) administered by a similarly high bioavailability would kill a person nontolerant to opioids for sure, if given IM/SC/IV or up the asshole.

With cut dope, its often done badly, potential for deadly 'hot spots' where the mixing wasn't done thoroughly enough in a powder product, or after settling after preparation etc., and it can be SO fucking potent, when H is contaminated like that. I've had it, twice. Bought several hundred quid's worth of what I had on good authority (a hobo, but a trustworthy one) was extremely potent dope. There was H in there, could taste it when smoked. But despite a tolerance that would let me IV a gram of dipropionylmorphine, never mind morphine or pure H, equivalent to pharm grade, produced from pharm grade morphine, must have gotten near 20x20 bags with several extra freebies thrown in due to the amount bought.

And then found it was cut strongly with some sort of superpotent opioid. An amount about the size of half a grain of dry rice, vaporized from a glass pipe was enough to knock me sideways on my ass, out cold. Was damn careful about frequency of use of the stuff and dosage but it was still scary strong. Its a good thing for it to be uncommon in AUS. Took a month at most after that shit surfaced for everybody involved with it to disappear. My contacts, the hobo friend of mine, the dealers, users, everyone that had come into contact with it that I had knowledge of vanished suddenly. Never to be heard from again. I assume I'm the only one out of them with a fairly sophisticated personal laboratory which includes a sensitive, accurate digital balance, combined with both a thorough knowledge of the kind of things that COULD turn up in such cut dope, and a beastly tolerance to opioids.

To say nothing of great caution when it comes to any drug that hasn't either come from a pharmacy, or that I cannot personally verify the..origin..of. It's pedigree so to speak. And care regardless.

Weed is another matter, since its pretty easy to determine whats what, and that I'll buy off the streets, but otherwise I'm several steps over and above just fussy and using test kits etc. I want my drugs verifiable from the source, with everything bar a serial number for batches. But fuck, even looking into CBD>delta-8-THC&delta-9-THC isomeric mixture via a boron trifluoride etherate-mediated cyclization from legally available purified cannabidiol, then back-blending it, once the BF3 has been quenched and the product worked up, with varying proportions of CBD to give something similar to various strains of weed. Although partially out of necessity since I don't even maintain street contacts anymore.
 
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