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Harm Reduction Drugs to counteract stimulant induced vasoconstriction

I'll tell you what, I was once in this search too, and clonidine has been my realistic answer. It cancels out alot of the undesirable amounts of NE released by dextroamphetamine. Another answer for occasional use to re-leave vasocoonstriction and uncomfortable and cold extremities is pregabalin, but it also potentiates the euphoria of dexamp and very addictive. Oh and in the sake of HR, make sure to keep your clonidine use down to about every other day. That is if you wanna avoid physical rebound and withdrawal from clonidine, it does exist. Same with pregabalin, don't get me started the w/d very much do exist and suck. These drugs esp. clonidine are pretty easily rx'd from doctor get the .1's first. It should really help!
 
Diacetylmorphan said:
In relation to dilation and constriction of blood vessels, is there a way I can prevent my eyes from getting bloodshot after geeking up and not sleeping?
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Not really. Seeing as how you're from Chicago are you talking of crystal? If so I hate to be the one to say it but I have had my fun with Tina and I have that Exact same problem if I'm up after 48hours. The answer is time and Tea is your best bet. If you have any anxiety relief medications those will help act normal and Maybe make your pupils a Little regular but count on your eyes being like that until the comedown/crash. This is from my personal experience.
 
IIRC amphetamine has a metabolite with direct alpha1 agonist effects. Might be interesting to look if blocking the enzyme that results in it's formation is feasible.
 
som3dankbudz said:
I'll tell you what, I was once in this search too, and clonidine has been my realistic answer. It cancels out alot of the undesirable amounts of NE released by dextroamphetamine. Another answer for occasional use to re-leave vasocoonstriction and uncomfortable and cold extremities is pregabalin, but it also potentiates the euphoria of dexamp and very addictive. Oh and in the sake of HR, make sure to keep your clonidine use down to about every other day. That is if you wanna avoid physical rebound and withdrawal from clonidine, it does exist. Same with pregabalin, don't get me started the w/d very much do exist and suck. These drugs esp. clonidine are pretty easily rx'd from doctor get the .1's first. It should really help!
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Pregabalin is similar to Phenabit correct? I use this, may be worth testing this combo.
 
blight12 said:
Pregabalin is similar to Phenabit correct? I use this, may be worth testing this combo.
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One is an alpha2delta (IIRC) calcium channel blocker and the other is a GABAB agonist if memory serves. Man, if you guys are interested in the gabapentinoids you really need to check out Dr. Peter Smith's work. As an added benefit he's one of the most personable people I've ever met at a industry conference.
 
CFC said:
I tend to agree with you blight12, I'm pretty sure it's a synergy of all the affected neurotransmitters and blocking this or that one probably screws the pleasant effect to a lesser or greater degree. At least, that would seem to be the case from my own experiences.

I notice that when using meth, part of what appears to give me the euphoric feeling seems strongly related to the adrenaline rush and hyperactivity; the complete absence of that rush using Clonidine is very noticeable, and I was never able to induce it while taking even a low dose of the med and a large mg of meth.

Regarding the bit about the danger of confused signals with alpha/beta blockers, I think what you're referring to is the fact that many assume a beta-blocker is a safe treatment to lower blood pressure/heart rate while using stims.

But in fact, it's quite dangerous as the alpha and beta systems feedback into each other. In the absense of beta stimulation, alpha adrenergic stimulation goes AWOL and can lead to both severe hypertension and yet reduced coronary blood flow and cardiac output - a recipe for trouble, especially in those with heart conditions.

Having said that, both taken together (a near-total adrenergic blockade) are safe at the right dosage, and will rather quickly lift you out of your stim induced state without the need for benzos etc should you require it. They also make it much easier to sleep, although personally I find I still need some kind of GABA stimulation.
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CFC said:
Even though this is an old thread, there aren't many asking this question and I'd like to offer my experience for any who might be tempted to try using an alpha-blocker.

I had a similar desire as OP when using stimulants, and tried combining Clonidine (an alpha-blocker) principally to counteract the strong adrenergic effect (which my heart does not enjoy) of Meth and also to lessen vasoconstriction.

On paper, Clonidine (or any alpha-blocker) looks like it should be a good, discriminating candidate (leaving dopamine and seratonin untouched). However, repeated use has demonstrated something that I since discovered reading studies using Meth and Clonidine on mice, which is that when norepinephrine is suppressed by Clonidine, it has a toxic effect on dopamine pathways, and significantly reduces dopamine to *below* even natural levels.

In use, I find that while it does successfully reduce vasoconstriction, lower heart rate, blood pressure, and overall stimulant anxiety, it almost completely suppresses any positive dopamine/seratonin sides. It feels as if you've taken nothing, or even worse, leaves you feeling a bit negative and sluggish, and I've found even pretty large doses cannot overcome the effect of just a single 0.1mg tablet of Clonidine.
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Thank you TONS for your contribution to this thread! :)
 
I remember reading somewhere that simply taking a vasodilator to counteract vasoconstriction from stimulants is ineffective and potentially dangerous. Not sure how true it is, but I would be cautious.

Personally, I like to chew on some ginger root while taking a hot shower. Always makes me feel warm and relaxed after too many stims. Not all that scientific though :)
 
I can only reccomend opioids, benzos, marijuana, or something like a herbal vasodialitor(gotta be some, google it)
 
Well not really it's a gaba- analogue like phenibut, but works in the as a calcium channel blocker, and modulates the glutamate/nmda system via either speeding up the enzyme thats turning glutamate carboxlyase(Sp?) into gaba. It's not a direct gaba b antagonists llike phenibut or ghb, or gaba a antagonists. I Believe it has such a wide range of effects b/c besides the glutamate system modulation, it also makes more gaba available for binding. It's suprisingly awesome for stimulant side effects, even small doses intranasally seem to really help you feel "normal" after a stim. comedown, not drugged like xanax(or other benzos). It has great recreational effects that aren't very explainable by Pfizer's documented mechanisms of action for the drug. Thats why I'm convinced there's something more going on for me it covers mostly all of benzo/opiate w/d. Lyrica(Pregabalin), itself gives me a w/d predominantly similar to benzo's, but with the yawns, pins and needle circulation, runny nose and coldness, of opiate w/d just becareful. I've unfortunatly introduced this drug to myself, and me and many of my friends find them very addicting for a variety of reasons, JUST BEWARE W/D BLOWS FROM THIS SHIT!
 
Ok, sorry I know this is an old thread. Although, I feel its necessary to say that it is most likely purely subjective as to whether clonidine will dampen your stimulant high. Due to the factor of using different stimulants that produce varying ratio's of DA to NE. For example, this is stating what you prolly know, but dexmethamphetamine(which is what a majority of street ice is with a minority ratio of levomethamphetamine which has purely peripheral effects similiar to levoamphetamine.) releases DA to NE 1:3 respectively, i believe more centered in the VTA, but as well there is certainly activity in the Nucleus accumbens. However Dexamphetamine(dexedrine, what 3/4 of adderall is) releases DA to NE at a 1:5 ratio. That being said some speed users enjoy higher amounts of NE than others, and others have different thresholds and what not of what they like, and whats to much. For me, I find I like the norepinephrine body buzz up until a threshold where too much equals the tweak outs we all know, and that adderall because of the levo amp is really notorious for. Getting to the point, I find when using methamp cloinidine fucks up the initial rush bc the physical stimulation is nice for a few hours and not overwhelming like adderall. However, with adderall sense my amphetamine tolerance takes about 35 - 40 mg dexamp to get me speeding, i have to take 45-50 mg of adderall, and that much levo amp will make me so tweaker acting and irritated extremely anxious eetc.. So clonidine really helps in that aspect to give me some relief from the craziness so i can enjoy the dose. Dexedrine and meth, however, it takes away from the necessary amount of NE, due to alpha- 1 agonist effects , so that threshold amount of stimulation for me to feel "Up" isn't reached although I often still feel the euphoria. But the overall effects are still there. So you just have to try, and see. I couldn't get through when I have to use addie when my malicron. dex 15mg er, and street speed is gone without those once thought useless clonidines. Some like some don't, but I highly suggest this to anyone that has a high tolerance to amp. euphoria, and doesn't have access to meth or straight dex, because at first when it only took 20-30mg of addie too speed there wasn't an issue, but due to desensitization(downregulation) of D2 receptors, and modulation of the DAT NT in general, paired with the weird phenomenon of sensitization to the psychomotor peripheral effects of amps, it can be a savior at canceling down the peripheral effects of the amp that grow worse over time accompanied wit the addiction... Sry for rant hope this helps
 
dexmethamphetamine(which is what a majority of street ice is with a minority ratio of levomethamphetamine which has purely peripheral effects similiar to levoamphetamine.) releases DA to NE 1:3 respectively, i believe more centered in the VTA, but as well there is certainly activity in the Nucleus accumbens. However Dexamphetamine(dexedrine, what 3/4 of adderall is) releases DA to NE at a 1:5 ratio.
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Which study was this from? See for instance this post, suggesting rather it's -
DA:NE:5-HT
d-amphetamine 1:1:225 (equally effective a NE releaser)
d-methamphetamine 1:2:60 (1/2 as effective at releasing NE)

or this one-
DA:NE:HT
d-amphetamine 1:0.3:225 (3.5x more potent a NE releaser)
d-methamphetamine 1:0.5:60 (2x more potent a NE releaser)

Also, the long-held myth that "dopamine = feel good" and "norepinephrine = body load" is total bullshit, as evidenced by e.g. MDMA totally losing its stimulatory potential if NET is blocked, and the abuse of selective norepinephrine releasers like ethcathinone....
 
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freehugs said:
OP, have you tried taking nitric oxide supplements? They vasodilate so they could be of help to you.

I don't have any knowledge of those others but the NO thought popped into my mind. Good luck :)
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When I was using mephedrone I would take nitric oxide during the come down and it did seem to help a bit. Also, I know you said kratom isnt what you're looking for but it seems to cause moderate vasodialation(for me anyways) to the point where I would get alot of random erections when coming up on kratom. It also has the benefit of counter acting some of the other negative side effects such as rapid heart beat and nervousness when using a sedating strain such as bali or synergizing with your stimulant while still helping with the vasoconstriction when using an energizing strain such as maeng da.

EDIT: lol I didnt realize the OPs question is almost a year old
 
som3dankbudz said:
Ok, sorry I know this is an old thread. Although, I feel its necessary to say that it is most likely purely subjective as to whether clonidine will dampen your stimulant high. Due to the factor of using different stimulants that produce varying ratio's of DA to NE. For example, this is stating what you prolly know, but dexmethamphetamine(which is what a majority of street ice is with a minority ratio of levomethamphetamine which has purely peripheral effects similiar to levoamphetamine.) releases DA to NE 1:3 respectively, i believe more centered in the VTA, but as well there is certainly activity in the Nucleus accumbens. However Dexamphetamine(dexedrine, what 3/4 of adderall is) releases DA to NE at a 1:5 ratio. That being said some speed users enjoy higher amounts of NE than others, and others have different thresholds and what not of what they like, and whats to much. For me, I find I like the norepinephrine body buzz up until a threshold where too much equals the tweak outs we all know, and that adderall because of the levo amp is really notorious for. Getting to the point, I find when using methamp cloinidine fucks up the initial rush bc the physical stimulation is nice for a few hours and not overwhelming like adderall. However, with adderall sense my amphetamine tolerance takes about 35 - 40 mg dexamp to get me speeding, i have to take 45-50 mg of adderall, and that much levo amp will make me so tweaker acting and irritated extremely anxious eetc.. So clonidine really helps in that aspect to give me some relief from the craziness so i can enjoy the dose. Dexedrine and meth, however, it takes away from the necessary amount of NE, due to alpha- 1 agonist effects , so that threshold amount of stimulation for me to feel "Up" isn't reached although I often still feel the euphoria. But the overall effects are still there. So you just have to try, and see. I couldn't get through when I have to use addie when my malicron. dex 15mg er, and street speed is gone without those once thought useless clonidines. Some like some don't, but I highly suggest this to anyone that has a high tolerance to amp. euphoria, and doesn't have access to meth or straight dex, because at first when it only took 20-30mg of addie too speed there wasn't an issue, but due to desensitization(downregulation) of D2 receptors, and modulation of the DAT NT in general, paired with the weird phenomenon of sensitization to the psychomotor peripheral effects of amps, it can be a savior at canceling down the peripheral effects of the amp that grow worse over time accompanied wit the addiction... Sry for rant hope this helps
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I can't say whether you are right or wrong regarding stimulants other than Meth. For me Clonidine was a horrible choice, leaving me dull/flat/negative during use of Meth, and then giving me the worst depression for 3-5 days after, which I can only imagine was the result of severe neurotoxicity brought on by using the Clonidine.

This study has some interesting results and graphs for anyone interested to see how DA toxicity increases with use of Clonidine:


Ann N Y Acad Sci. 1998 May 30;844:166-77.
Noradrenergic modulation of methamphetamine-induced striatal dopamine depletion.
Fornai F, Alessandrì MG, Torracca MT, Bassi L, Scalori V, Corsini GU.
Source

Institute of Pharmacology, School of Medicine, University of Pisa, Italy. [email protected]
Abstract

Noradrenergic (NE) neurons belonging to the locus coeruleus (LC), much more than the A1 and A2 areas, are lost in Parkinson's disease (PD). In this study, we reproduced the selective pattern of NE loss involving axons arising from the LC using the selective neurotoxin N-(-2-chloroethyl)-N-ethyl-2-bromobenzylamine (DSP-4) (50 mg/kg). In these experimental conditions, we investigated whether NE loss potentiates methamphetamine-induced striatal dopamine (DA) depletion in mice and rats. Administration of a moderate dose of methamphetamine to C57B1/6N mice or Sprague-Dawley rats produced only a partial striatal DA depletion 7 days after drug administration. Pre-treatment with DSP-4, in both animal species, significantly enhanced methamphetamine-induced striatal DA depletion. Administration of a lower dose of methamphetamine did not decrease striatal DA levels when injected alone, but produced a significant decrease in striatal DA when given to DSP-4-pretreated rodents. Moreover, we found that agents reducing the noradrenergic activity (i.e., the alpha-2 agonist clonidine) enhanced, whereas alpha-2 antagonists decreased, methamphetamine toxicity. Enhancement of methamphetamine toxicity did not occur if the noradrenergic lesion was produced 12 hr after methamphetamine administration. By contrast, exacerbation of methamphetamine toxicity in NE-depleted animals was accompanied by increased extracellular DA levels measured with brain dialysis and by a more severe acute DA depletion measured in striatal homogenates.
 
j1m1th1ng said:
Cayanne pepper hot tea works wonders for me. Daily MDPV and apvp user
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Use hot tea or hot water and dance when the vasoconstriction is through the roof. Stretching a lot daily help too. That central back shoulder area can get TIGHT!

I shall try the cayanne pepper hot tea , as I know you definately know whats up.

Gotta recipe? 170/95 aint good (my personal BP record, big hits)
 
Stretching does go a long way. My blood pressure has been do to like 97-99/67-69 for some time now.. When using cayanee pepper I found it best to just toss and wash a few big spoon fulls.
 
Don't stress, move around, stretch often, drink lots of water.


If you really want to go fucking nuts vape etizolam and a-PVP at the same time. Like mix the powders in the bulb and hit that shit. Vape 20mg of etizolam and 40mg of a-PVP. For that even truer nuts add 20mg of MDPV.
How we roll.

Repeat, that is for only for the stupid, brave, suicidal folk. Love life and be positive

Don't Litter
Pick Up Your Trash

Peace♡♥♡
 
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