• Psychedelic Drugs Welcome Guest
    View threads about
    Posting RulesBluelight Rules
    PD's Best Threads Index
    Social ThreadSupport Bluelight
    Psychedelic Beginner's FAQ

Drug 'levels'

M

morbiddoctor

Bluelighter
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
429
I was wondering if anyone knows where to find or can write up a drug levels guide. What I mean by this is how taking more of a psychedelic can lead to deeper experiences i.e. how DXM has plateaus and salvia has the S.A.L.V.I.A. thing. I'm just having a very difficult time finding them in a simple search. Any help with as many psychs as possible would be greatly appreciated.
 
A typical psychedelic revelation is that there are no levels - everything is continual, recursive, infinite, relative.

That being said, shroomery.org had some for mushrooms I think, also applicable to other serotoninergics in my opinion.
:
http://www.shroomery.org/6255/Trip-Reports
 
Mjäll said:
A typical psychedelic revelation is that there are no levels - everything is continual, recursive, infinite, relative.

That being said, shroomery.org had some for mushrooms I think, also applicable to other serotoninergics in my opinion.
:
http://www.shroomery.org/6255/Trip-Reports
Click to expand...

thanks. i actually saw this one earlier. i know its difficult to measure in all the factors (weight, potency, condition etc.) but anything else? like i said, the DXM plateaus have rules, thats not the word i was looking for but it works i think.
 
Video games have levels. Psychedelic experience is more like an endless stream of possibility.
 
I would recommend when whoever is taking a substance. Like a psychedelic, keep a journal or multiple ones for different psychs. It is what i do and am into drug research/sociology so. IDK.

Guess you will have to find whatever means to be able to make YOUR OWN drug levels guide.
 
that level thing makes sense for DXM, since it has infact different effects in different dosage levels due to different pharmacological actions. this S.A.L.V.I.A. thing already looked pretty artificial to me.
 
wel you could do all the drugs yourself and journal about them. kind of like Alexander Shulgin. lol.
 
well you could look into the shulgin scale, and I recall thegooddrugsguide.com had their own scale for some psychedlics.
 
The shulgin scale is more a way to describe individual experiences, than a scale of effects on any particular substance.
 
I tend to feel a bit dismissive of so called scales, simply because they are too simplistic and don't really allow room for the 'grey areas'....the + scale works fine in giving a general feeling of what the experience entailed.

Though heres one I just inveneted for DMT:

D- Distant Elf Invasion
M- Moderate elf invasion
T- Total elf invasion

Yeah, it sucks. :\ :D
 
Getting ready to start my journal on sparke(2E):D Never tried it before but got plenty of info about it from observations. Done started on the nexus but still have to finish it. I love drug research....as long as the person knows what they are doing.;)
 
^^ @swilow: Hehe, props for a nice try at least :D

I think the shroomery scale is pretty nice in some aspects. It is especially helpful with shrooms (naturally), but can be applied to many other substances as well I feel, such as LSD. It does prove most handy for describing lower dose experiences, however; the level 4 range is so vast that it can hardly be broken down to any number of levels really IMO.

The Shulgin scale is great for describing intensity of the experience, it is very universal substance-by-substance.

The S-A-L-V-I-A scale, and the DXM plateau system are more descriptive, but mostly apply to the substances they were designed for.

But yeah, essentially I agree with what swilow said above - most of these scales are too simplistic and tend to do injustice to any experience that is attempted to be described in terms of these scales. They can prove to be helpful in some situations, though.
 
I agree with dread :)

rant on.

this reminds me of a time that made me very angry. the first time I dropped acid (and uh, dude, I was excited as hell about it, it's ACID), a friend of mine was all like... "Well, did it feel like this? No, then you didn't reach this level of Timothy Leary's whatever the fuck scale."

And she had never tripped in her life, but was just stuck in the IDEA of the fucking sixties. I hate people like that. Live in the present, cause change in the here and now, have your own experience, don't throw it into some random dude's box. Don't tell me how hard I tripped on acid....

I don't think my tripping experience could be put into levels. That just seems silly. Why would there be levels? Why should someone else tell you what exists, what you're experiencing?

rant off. :D
 
i agree with ^^^. tripping shouldn't be put into levels. i do though, understand the levels stated by Alexander Shulgin...


Shulgin Rating Scale

PLUS / MINUS (+/-)
The level of effectiveness of a drug that indicates a threshold action. If a higher dosage produces a greater response, then the plus/minus (+/-) was valid. If a higher dosage produces nothing, then this was a false positive.

PLUS ONE (+)
The drug is quite certainly active. The chronology can be determined with some accuracy, but the nature of the drug's effects are not yet apparent.

PLUS TWO (++)
Both the chronology and the nature of the action of a drug are unmistakably apparent. But you still have some choice as to whether you will accept the adventure, or rather just continue with your ordinary day's plans (if you are an experienced researcher, that is). The effects can be allowed a predominant role, or they may be repressed and made secondary to other chosen activities.

PLUS THREE (+++)
Not only are the chronology and the nature of a drug's action quite clear, but ignoring its action is no longer an option. The subject is totally engaged in the experience, for better or worse.

PLUS FOUR (++++)
A rare and precious transcendental state, which has been called a 'peak experience', a 'religious experience,' 'divine transformation,' a 'state of Samadhi' and many other names in other cultures. It is not connected to the +1, +2, and +3 of the measuring of a drug's intensity. It is a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes, which has come about after the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, but which is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug. If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end of, the human experiment.

Erowid.com
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
swilow said:
Though heres one I just inveneted for DMT:

D- Distant Elf Invasion
M- Moderate elf invasion
T- Total elf invasion

Yeah, it sucks. :\ :D
Click to expand...

I have been thinking about delving into DMT for the 2nd time....

I think i have a very willing person to do it with, he has done a lot of it so i trust his advice fully.... he has some crazy stories from DMT....
 
swilow said:
D- Distant Elf Invasion
M- Moderate elf invasion
T- Total elf invasion
Click to expand...

Hehehehehehehehe


Flarestar89 said:
I agree with dread :)

rant on.

this reminds me of a time that made me very angry. the first time I dropped acid (and uh, dude, I was excited as hell about it, it's ACID), a friend of mine was all like... "Well, did it feel like this? No, then you didn't reach this level of Timothy Leary's whatever the fuck scale."

And she had never tripped in her life, but was just stuck in the IDEA of the fucking sixties. I hate people like that. Live in the present, cause change in the here and now, have your own experience, don't throw it into some random dude's box. Don't tell me how hard I tripped on acid....

I don't think my tripping experience could be put into levels. That just seems silly. Why would there be levels? Why should someone else tell you what exists, what you're experiencing?

rant off. :D
Click to expand...

rant extention on.

Dude, I KNOW! I know a few people who want to do drugs with people so that they can tell their friends how hard they are tripping. And if they don't trip out hard enough, they're like "nah, man, you weren't there." Or something like, "That's it? Oh man, this one time my friend got sooo high..." Some people have a strong tendency to categorize and generalize everything and everyone, and it just spreads unhealthy mentality.

An experience is an experience. Let it be and let the tripper be! Goddamn!

rant extention off.

I'm not sure if anyone actually benefits from psychedelic effects categories. Sure, they're useful in comparing experiences (if you felt so inclined), but I think the real understanding of the experience comes from your very own experience: staying with it, embracing it and staying present.
 
As far as a way to explain how intense the experience is, the shulgin scale is a great method....

That basically goes on the idea of "how easy is this to ignore, or is it a completly reality obliterating trip?"

+ being just off baseline and ++++ to be in a reality is destroyed...
 
PLUS / MINUS (+/-)
The level of effectiveness of a drug that indicates a threshold action. If a higher dosage produces a greater response, then the plus/minus (+/-) was valid. If a higher dosage produces nothing, then this was a false positive.

PLUS ONE (+)
The drug is quite certainly active. The chronology can be determined with some accuracy, but the nature of the drug's effects are not yet apparent.

PLUS TWO (++)
Both the chronology and the nature of the action of a drug are unmistakably apparent. But you still have some choice as to whether you will accept the adventure, or rather just continue with your ordinary day's plans (if you are an experienced researcher, that is). The effects can be allowed a predominant role, or they may be repressed and made secondary to other chosen activities.

PLUS THREE (+++)
Not only are the chronology and the nature of a drug's action quite clear, but ignoring its action is no longer an option. The subject is totally engaged in the experience, for better or worse.

PLUS FOUR (++++)
A rare and precious transcendental state, which has been called a 'peak experience', a 'religious experience,' 'divine transformation,' a 'state of Samadhi' and many other names in other cultures. It is not connected to the +1, +2, and +3 of the measuring of a drug's intensity. It is a state of bliss, a participation mystique, a connectedness with both the interior and exterior universes, which has come about after the ingestion of a psychedelic drug, but which is not necessarily repeatable with a subsequent ingestion of that same drug. If a drug (or technique or process) were ever to be discovered which would consistently produce a plus four experience in all human beings, it is conceivable that it would signal the ultimate evolution, and perhaps the end of, the human experiment.
Click to expand...

While I agree with Shulgin's scale to an extent, I think that it warrants at least one more place. If I were to standardize a trip, I'd use a 5-star scale bracketed on each end with something.

[?] - Is there something going on? Is this in my head? The question mark generally implies that you aren't sure if anything is really happening. Warrants a higher dose, within reason.

[*] - Obviously something is going on. It can't be denied, but can be easily ignored.

[**] - State of mind is altered to where ignoring the phenomena is possible, but not necessarily easy. An experienced psychonaut should be still happily functional, but may seem "off" a bit.

[***] - Ignoring the drug is impossible, and its effects are readily manifested. It obviously has a hold of an experienced psychonaut. Suppressing the effects is exhausting, and a battle easily lost at this point.

[****] - The phenomena has a firm grasp of the psychonaut, and discerning trip from reality is difficult. While the inexperienced may feel obliterated, the experienced know that reality is still there, somewhere.

[*****] - Loss of touch with reality for the most seasoned of trippers. All senses are fully engaged and taken over by the phenomena. Ego dissolution, but not divinity.

[!] - This is the transcendent state of psychedelia... the divine awakening. This experience is rarely achievable, and even rarer still, repeatable. Most people only see this once in their lives, if ever. Like Shulgin's scale, this has nothing to do with intensity, as it is far beyond understanding for those who have not achieved it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top