• 💊 OTHER DRUGS 💊 Welcome Guest
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Notable Threads 1 Notable Threads 2
    Dangerous Combos Addiction Support
    Emergency Services Benzo Guide v.1
    Addiction Stories Scary Case Studies
    Biology, Pharmacology & Drugs 101
  • Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Opioids dont know what to do subutex wont work anymore!! please help

30roxi30

30roxi30

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
282
so idk what to do here .. yesterday i tried switching back to subutex ..i have not used it for a couple months but each time i would switch i would slowly feel that is was not working anymore....prier to just starting the sub yesterday i was sniffing 200 mg of opana for 4 days ... i really do want of opiates badly seeing how i no longer even get high even when sniffing 100mgs of opana when i would wake up... oxycodone is usally my DOC but once a month i have easy access to the oxymorphon and just do as much as i can afford ...

well yesterday i tried switching back to subutex and didnt work at all.. i ended up dosing up to 16 mg of subutex yesterday and i still feel awful today... i had to wake up and take multiple showers from being drenched in sweat... i had to sleep from my bed to the couch to the floor because i drench them in sweat..this really does suck ...at first i thought i mite of dosed to early at first but since i still feel like shit i know that isnt the case i wouldnt think

would i not realy feel anything if i did go get a full opiate?... im not even looking to get high i just want to feel well

is it possible my tolarce to opiates is so large subs will no longer help me ??

im about to go buy somthing to try to feel better even tho i know 16mg will block it all im just desperate right now
 
the highest dose you can go with still some effect is 32mg of bupe.. that's the ceiling dose. You may need more than 16mg

When I was IVing close to 60mg of Opana a day I needed around 24mg to get my straight
 
dude that sucks, I have read that sometimes during induction they will give people up to 32 mg to make them feel better, you might need even more, also have you tried taking any now that it's been a couple of days since your Opana use?
 
opana is fucking strong shit, twice as strong as oxy. but you really should not need more than 16mg. you will probably benefit from methadone instead.
 
Even after a high dose of bupe it may still take a day or 2 for you to start feeling better. IME when I had been doing a shitload of oxy and had to stop/ran out I would still feel like shit ( sweating/yawning/hot flashes) for a day or 2.
hope this helps
It'll get better my man, just stick it out
 
well out of desperation i called someone to get something and could only get 40mgs of opana... i am no longer drenched in sweat and changing my clothes every 30 min ... i just couldnt belive how sick i was after 16mgs of subutex ... i know it wasnt really precipitated w/d cause i have got that many times before and would only last 1 -2 hours at the most... i know im not going to get high but i do plan one getting 90 to 120 of oxy to IV in a couple hours to try to break threw a little .. this just sucks when 4 mg of sub would hold me 24 hours i now know methadone is my only choice ...60 mg of methadone does not even get me well about 120 does and its going to be hell going a clinic for a couple weeks seeing how they will only start you at 30 mgs and up 5mgs a day then have to talk with to them to even see if they will allow you to go past 70 mgs

i know its going to be a huge wast to IV 120mg of oxy seeing how i took 16mgs of the subutex 24 hours ago but if it will make me just feel alittle better thats all that matters ...if you really still really sick after taking subs does it really still bloke all the way ?... i really dont understand that
 
Hi... I found this thread trying to search the same topic. I have had an EXTREMELY discouraging couple of days. I recently got back into heroin (only 2 months, maybe 2.5 so far) and I am just so over this drug. I was so happy being clean prior to this last run, and things got BAD in just a couple weeks of using. I went from smoking to shooting, and I think there is a very strong possibiity I could have contracted hep c. All over a stupid, worthless relapse, in which I probably got "high" about 5 times. My tolerance is and always has been extremely high. (I do have to mention I was on 16 mg of subutex a day right before this run, and honestly I justified switching to heroin for a bit so that I could work toward getting off subs.)

I am completely sincere when I say that I do not enjoy opiates any longer. Nothing about it makes me happy, and I have such a hard time even getting high- the negatives just way surpass the positives for me, and it has been the case the more and more I use. I am only trying to point out that I truly am not trying to make excuses for why I cannot seem to make the switch and stop using. It is a simple problem of discomfort for me, and I am a WUSS when it comes to withdrawl. 2 days ago I decided to detox (or at least taper with subs). I did my last hit early enough so that the timing would be as ideal as possible in terms of avoiding discomfort. I tried to detox about 1 month ago and ran into the same problems that I am about to describe- however, I told myself that it was a fluke- maybe I went into precipitated WD, yadda yadda- and that I would do it right this time.

First let me give you a general history of my sub and opiate use- I used either heroin or subs for about 4-5 years straight, constantly switching between the 2. I was never able to simply use subs as a taper- I continued to stay on subs every day that I did not use heroin. However, I never took more than 4 mg of subutex a day, and often needed much less- even when kicking large heroin habits. I NEVER followed the rules of using subs. I would take subs 7 hours after my last heroin dose and feel 100% relief of withdrawls. I would smoke a couple hours after taking subs and get very very high. Subs were easy to use and I used the hell out of them.

Then, I went into rehab for 3 months and got clean. That is when things started to change a bit. I relapsed shortly after getting out and noticed I had to take much larger doses of subs to receive the same effect. Also, I believe I experienced precipiated withdrawl about 2 times from taking subs too early. I was able to get clean within 2 weeks of relapsing however, but remained on about 2mg of subs a day....until I went through a horrific, abusive relationship and break-up and I started upping my dose of subutex to cope. Eventually I was up to taking 24 mg of subutex a day (for about 2 weeks) until I tapered down to 16 a day. I'd say I was taking 16 mg subutex a day for about 4 or 5 months. And maybe I'm thinking that being on that high a dose every day for half a year utterly screwed me???

My experience the past couple days was as follows: I decided I was going to wait 24 hours to sub to be safe since Ive been having trouble with subs. I was in nasty WD's I couldnt make it to 24 hours, but rather something like 18 or 19... I took 4mg first to see my reaction, waited an hour and then took another 4mg. I couldnt really tell if I felt better or not. My withdrawls SLOWLY got worse over the next 8 hours. I did not sleep AT ALL and was tossing and turning so badly that i woke up with bruises all over my body. All throughout the night I was taking 4mg halves at a time-every 2 hours or so. Never did I feel like my WD's instantly got worse right after taking a piece of sub, which is why I dont think it was precipitated. But I think by the morning (which would have been a little over the 24 hour mark) I had taken about 24 mg of subutex. And I was in BAD shape- worse than I have ever been. My habit was nothing crazy either. I had actually tapered down significantly for the detox. I was probably doing on average 1.5g a day. But because I started slamming toward the end, I was only doing 1g some days. And years ago when I used to smoke it only, 3g a day was always the norm- and I would get by on 4 mg of subutex to feel well!!! I also said screw it and picked up about 8 hours after my last sub dose. I did a HUGE shot that was def in the realm of OD, (however I took a very long time to inject, pausing 4 different times). The shot did not even help me feel better! I remained in withdrawls for the next 12 hours, not once being able to get well with more heroin.

This is beyond me!! Can anybody explain the difference now? Is my body just so tolerant of subs that they no longer are working for me?? Do I really need to wait more than 24 hours to sub?? I dont get it, and I am scared to death because I really want and need to quit!
 
I don't think you do understand how buprenorphine works and you've been just making it worse and worse for yourself because of this. Buprenorphine is only a partial agonist at mu opioid receptors, so it can't be any more effective over the ceiling dose. It could be around 24mg s.l. if the ceiling dose with 100% BA is ~8mg, but nonetheless the additional effect is weaker and weaker as you increase your dose which is apparent starting from ~8mg s.l., i.e. the perceivable change in effects when you increase from 8mg to 16mg is less than when you increase from 2mg to 4mg. The highest dose I took on a daily basis was 10-12mg a day and it felt like being on 8mg with extra anxiety and other side effects more pronounced. Less and less effect doesn't mean, however, that all this extra buprenorphine evaporates, it does get bound but at some point the extra effect is so weak that you won't feel it but your tolerance is increasing anyway...

Buprenorphine binds more strongly to opioid receptors but activates them much less than morphine/heroin. On top of that it dissociates from the receptors very slowly. This means that yes, you should have waited at least 24 hours and you should have taken a lower dose too (like 2mg at most). This also means you shouldn't have taken a large dose of heroin on top of 24mg of buprenorphine which is like a few times more than you need to block response from full agonists like morphine/heroin. Unfortunately, no matter what you do now, it won't make the pain go away just like that. It may be that your tolerance to opioids got so high that the maximal effect of buprenorphine is not enough at this point to provide full relief from withdrawal, I don't know, 1.5g or 3g of heroin tells me nothing, in reality it could be any amount of heroin. But it's much more probable from what you described that you're now experiencing precipitated withdrawal and 24mg of buprenorphine is to be blamed (you suddenly flooded your body with a less efficacious opioid that forced the remaining heroin metabolites out of receptors). All you can do now is wait it out and then resume taking your buprenorphine at a dose as low as possible. It will pass and you will start feeling buprenorphine effects, I have never gone through precipitated withdrawal so I can't speak from experience but I'm sure someone can shed some light how long it could take, in my opinion it's going to be a couple of days before you get better.

The only way to quit is tapering, as slow as you need, there is no rush now, trust me. I've been dependent on opioids for 11 years now, codeine, morphine, heroin, various synthetics, then 2.5 years on methadone, hellish withdrawal for over 2 months, and here I am at 4mg of Suboxone slowly tapering down. You won't escape the pain totally, and when you think back in the future, you will have known pain is a good thing, without pain you wouldn't know what is joy or peace, without pain you wouldn't know something bad is happening to you and you wouldn't realise you want to change that.

Hang in there, it won't last forever. Don't brood over your future now, you will plan when you get better.
 
It can take a day to get the dosage right with bupe. You just have to keep adding until you feel not sick. what kind of subutex? If it is the tiny little hi-tech brand ones try snorting them. it will hit you a lot faster and you can figure out how much you need to take quicker also the BA is 2x as much as sublingual.
 
I don't think this is about getting the dosage right. Surely as you increase your dose at the very beginning, stacking is beneficial because you want to create a steady level of the drug in your system. But if she's taken 24mg, I doubt adding more can change much now. If I were her, I certainly wouldn't dose another 24mg on the following day, perhaps 8mg at most for a few days to see how it works out and if it's not enough, then I'd start taking more. Perhaps she can take advantage of this break from Suboxone to decrease her dose, I'm sure she can maintain on a much lower dose than 24mg and it will make a huge difference when she decides to start tapering down.

As for intranasal BA, do you have a source for BA? From what I remember, bioavailability for intranasal and sublingual administration is comparable, I doubt it could be twice as that of sublingual ROA, and from my experience snorting Suboxone is not reliable because absorption can vary on different days depending on different factors. The same is also true for s.l. buprenorphine but it's easier to control when you have some experience with it. I tried taking my Suboxone sublingually many different ways, now I'm just dissolving 2mg in 0.5ml of water and place the solution under my tongue with a syringe after brushing my teeth.
 
Not suboxone, subutex. But it will take me some digging. I have been on both for a long time, and there is one pill of all pills the hi-tech pharm 8mg bupe pill. the size of a 30 mg roxicodone. Maybe it is because of the small amount of powder so everything gets absorbed. And absorbed so well that there is literally no drip. The forumulation the also makes it so effective sublingually makes it just as successful in your nose. But yes, there was an article somewhere about the nasal availability being something like 75% whereas sublingual was 50%. But that it only worked so efficeiently with subutex. I know people say there is no difference. And for some people that is true. But some people, myself included are extremely sensitive to naloxone. So it was a disaster for me. When my doc switched me to subutex, I was getting euphoric from it, which was a huge surprise. During the weekday when I need to be ontop of my game I take sublingually. But on the weekend I snort it. And the article I read is right, I am not one to fall subject to placebo, because I didn't think it would work in the first place and I have been around for a while now, but it hits much harder than sublingual and faster as well, but obviously it would.
 
OK, I found one article where they found some difference between BA for s.l. and intranasal buprenorphine, the onset of effects was faster and Tmax was shorter after intranasal administration, Cmax was also found to be higher. So it's consistent with subjective reports, I don't think it's placebo. I've never taken Subutex myself, it's not available here at all, and I took buprenorphine-only pills and vials only a couple of times, other than that I also used transdermal patches sublingually years ago, so I wouldn't really know if I could feel the difference between buprenorphine alone and buprenorphine-naloxone formulations. Luckily I don't experience any side effects from Suboxone that might be attributed to naloxone (just a slightly uncomfortable anxious feeling for a couple of minutes after placing Suboxone under my tongue), so I don't think I'm particularly sensitive to it. I guess for naloxone intranasal BA may be substantially higher compared to sublingual BA, so there may be a greater difference between intranasal Subutex and Suboxone and both taken sublingually if one is sensitive to naloxone.

link
 
Thank you very much adder. I appreciate your time and help! Sooo I have been slowly wasting heroin, trying to feel well again. I finally have some relief this morning. My plan is to do heroin today and attempt to get back on subs this weekend. I feel like I should have a plan of attack and stick to it. I will wait 24 hours to sub- no if ands or buts- do you think this is long enough to wait?

Next question- how much to take. I have always heard take as little as possible and then wait it out and just take more until you feel better. However, my past 4 or 5 times inducting, I end up taking tiny pieces like 10 times- losing count of my dose, and never feeling better. My friend told me my problem is that I am not taking a high enough dose to begin with, and that your first dose should always be your highest. He told me to take 16 mg at 24 hours and there is not reason that should not significantly help. Otherwise, he said it sounds like I just might need methadone...which I personally want no part of. What do you think?
 
I cant find the source again at the moment but if i remember correctly bupe's bioavailability was about 30% sublingual and 50% intranasal, I have been snorting subz for quite a long time and I can tell its a little(quite a bit actually) damaging to the nose membranes while sublingual, even if weaker, I feel it as more benign.

Bupe is a strange beast, sometimes, especially with high tolerance, you feel better with a slightly lower dose than with a higher one, I think it is because of bupe behaving a lot more like an antagonist as you increase the dose thereby blocking any endorphins released by pleasurable activities.

By the way, try chewing some fresh Ginger, man it rushes your endorphins like no other and also helps with stomach discomfort! ;)

I mean, seriously, GINGER WAS THE ONLY thing that made me able to touch the water and have a shower(or even to eat) during withdrawal!!!!

Hope it helps,

stay strong you're warrior!
 
30roxi30 said:
so idk what to do here .. yesterday i tried switching back to subutex ..i have not used it for a couple months but each time i would switch i would slowly feel that is was not working anymore....prier to just starting the sub yesterday i was sniffing 200 mg of opana for 4 days ... i really do want of opiates badly seeing how i no longer even get high even when sniffing 100mgs of opana when i would wake up... oxycodone is usally my DOC but once a month i have easy access to the oxymorphon and just do as much as i can afford ...

well yesterday i tried switching back to subutex and didnt work at all.. i ended up dosing up to 16 mg of subutex yesterday and i still feel awful today... i had to wake up and take multiple showers from being drenched in sweat... i had to sleep from my bed to the couch to the floor because i drench them in sweat..this really does suck ...at first i thought i mite of dosed to early at first but since i still feel like shit i know that isnt the case i wouldnt think

would i not realy feel anything if i did go get a full opiate?... im not even looking to get high i just want to feel well

is it possible my tolarce to opiates is so large subs will no longer help me ??

im about to go buy somthing to try to feel better even tho i know 16mg will block it all im just desperate right now
Click to expand...

You know that if you take bupe before in full blown withdrawals then it kicks off any other opioid off the receptions and sends you in to agaony of full herion high to 0 heroin/opiate and make you feel terrible because you are in full withdrawls
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top