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  • TDS Moderators: AlphaMethylPhenyl | paranoid android

Does Suboxone really help?

Mudeltakappa said:
27. So, lots of years ahead of me.

"Medicated" is not necessarily a bad thing to me. I think it can be a good thing... it HAS been a good thing in fact. I need to be medicated. I've suffered from OCD and severe anxiety problems for as long as I can remember. Its why I started using opiates in the first place... SSRIS/SNRIS/Tricyclics didn't help... MAOIs helped some, but really opiates were the only thing that I ever felt truly well on.

So yeah, I expect (probably a better word to use than "plan," as who really knows what will happen down the road) to be taking bupe for life. I can't foresee ever wanting to stop taking it, nor can I see any benefits of doing so. I could be wrong I guess, but that's my expectation.
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The reality is that you're not different from anyone else and you need to quit getting high before it kills you.
 
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Suboxone does help, but the most important factor is how long are you going to take it? Its best to take it for a few months. It helped me but I remember taking opiates after quiting suboxone, and then deciding to not go back on it and just cold turkey. It works great if you have a plan and some time. The key is to stay on it long enough but not to long. Some people take it for a fw months and get sick of it and quit. Some take it there whole life.

So yes its a good tool but its not a miracle pill, you still need to work on your issues. The good thing about it is it can make full agonist opiates like dilauladid look pointless, and it helps your receptors heal. The bad news is the withdrawal is about 2 weeks and thn paws.
 
I think suboxone, like a lot of things in life, are what you make of it. You get out what you put in. If you want to get "clean" (I say that with quotes, because some people claim you're technically not clean if you're on replacement therapy) with Suboxone you can. What it did for me is that it took away the physical, need-to-get-well feeling that you're mind is 100% preoccupied with, so you can focus on yourself. When you're not worried about being sick all day you can start to focus on yourself and your issues. Then when you're ready, you can taper on the suboxone and eventually go off. How long that takes is up to you. For me it took 2 years before I felt I was ready to start tapering and kick (which I did with very very minimal withdrawal and problems);
 
Well here is a fucked up way to get off everything, and I know I might get shit. I was about to go the suboxone way, I know the doc, he will prescribe subs with benozos and seraqual( I spelled it wrong). but than I got raided. Put in the can for 8 days. I was still not all better, but I was thruogh the worst. I hate the legal system, but they got me clean. I have been out for over a week and havent usede, and trust me when it is as easy as going south of the border (where they have needles and distilled water at every pharmacia, no script needed, dope all over the place, shit ask the taxi driver) it has taken some will power to stay off.

But I beleive if you are truly tired of the life, etc:
Robbing, stealing, beaking into cars, hustling, slanging, fucking over people. Beating the shit out of "normal people" for the money.

Than you will stay clean. I may have done some bad things to get high, but I always had enough to stay well. For 2 years I stayed well everyday, and that break from the other 2 years out of the 6 year run was my 3 days till arraignment.

Opiate addiction is the worst I believe. I get so pissed sometimes at NA meeting hearing the crackheads and tweekers saying how hjard it is. Try some fucking Heroin asshole, than you talk to me how hard it is. I know this is very offensive, but I just had to say it.

Sorry for going off there for a bit.
 
I agree with Kooterlover on many points. Jail worked for me (the 5th time!!!!!). Rehab didn't work, suboxone kept me a junkie, outpatient therapy didn't work, and HANGING OUT WITH THE SAME 'FRIEND' EVERY TIME I GOT OUT OF JAIL DIDN'T WORK EITHER!!!!!!! Don't fool yourself. You have to change to be able to kick the habit. If you have to use suboxone, use it for 6-8 days. Taper: 8,8,6,6,4,4,2,2(mg/day). Then stay off it. If you're anything like me, you'll get the shits and still have them a month later. That and the insomnia and generally feeling like a big part or me was missing were the reasons I relapsed. The real thing I was missing was clean time and confidence that I could live life opiate-free. I now have 9 months clean and I feel better than I ever have in my life. Even the reason I started doing drugs, the 'fact' that I felt different and isolated from the world, now seems like a big lie I told myself. When I got into drugs I was just a young kid who didn't know his place in the world. Of course there was something missing! I wasn't fully developed physically or mentally! I was so stupid! Ok, I got a little off track there...... All I was trying to say was that you don't need to be on anything to enjoy life. Just the opposite. Clean time is the great healer. That's the only thing that worked for me. And exercise. Working out will help your brain start releasing its neurotransmitters on its own. Give it time. Peace & love, good brother.
 
scottyboy421 said:
My personal opinion, taking an opiate to cure an opiate addiction is retarded. Opiate withdrawl wont kill you. Sure it feels like you have a really bad flu for a week or 2, but big deal really, i went thru it and it was cake compared to the mental game which you fight forever. The sad truth is, the need goes away in a couple weeks, but the WANT stays with you forever. The easiest way to stay clean is to change your lifestyle. Start working out, watch movies instead of getting high, or hell, smoke a bit of pot to relax at night ( other than illegality, everyone knows pot is harmless). Really look forward to that wedding with the open bar next month, or the football game. Taking hard drugs to cure a hard drug addiction didn't work for me.
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My personal opinion is that tapering off with any suitable opiate/opioid is much better then going cold turkey. It's not the physical WD's that are the worst it's the mental WD's and ive always found tapering to help this. The insomnia, raw anxiety, nightmares, feeling like your going insane, the weird delerium i get during severe acute WD as well as the mixed state mania and thoughts of harming myself are all helped by tapering. If using a opioid to taper means i don't end up with cuts on my arms and 15lbs lighter then when withdrawals started then how is that retarded?

Also i dunno how anyone could compare opiate WD's to the fucking flu! Ive never had stomach cramps as bad or nearly as long even during a stomach flu like i get with withdrawal. This is the main reason why i end up losing alot of weight during severe withdrawal. This is not even mentioning the hot/cold flashes, that creepy crawly feeling i get all over my skin especially on my back, the sweating and my arthritis like symptoms flaring up with a vengence during severe WD.

So yeah cold turkey is not for everyone but then again different things help different people because everyone has different symptoms. Also opiate WD's can kill people. It's very rare but it happens and is usually do to dehydration or something going wrong. Ive heard of cases where people have had heart attacks during really severe WD granted they probably already had a preexisting condition. I have to wonder though how many suicides happen as a result of opiate WD. Ive sure as fuck come close to offing myself during WD or worse when i had the PAWS.
 
averagetool said:
I agree with Kooterlover on many points. Jail worked for me (the 5th time!!!!!). Rehab didn't work, suboxone kept me a junkie, outpatient therapy didn't work, and HANGING OUT WITH THE SAME 'FRIEND' EVERY TIME I GOT OUT OF JAIL DIDN'T WORK EITHER!!!!!!! Don't fool yourself. You have to change to be able to kick the habit. If you have to use suboxone, use it for 6-8 days. Taper: 8,8,6,6,4,4,2,2(mg/day). Then stay off it. If you're anything like me, you'll get the shits and still have them a month later. That and the insomnia and generally feeling like a big part or me was missing were the reasons I relapsed. The real thing I was missing was clean time and confidence that I could live life opiate-free. I now have 9 months clean and I feel better than I ever have in my life. Even the reason I started doing drugs, the 'fact' that I felt different and isolated from the world, now seems like a big lie I told myself. When I got into drugs I was just a young kid who didn't know his place in the world. Of course there was something missing! I wasn't fully developed physically or mentally! I was so stupid! Ok, I got a little off track there...... All I was trying to say was that you don't need to be on anything to enjoy life. Just the opposite. Clean time is the great healer. That's the only thing that worked for me. And exercise. Working out will help your brain start releasing its neurotransmitters on its own. Give it time. Peace & love, good brother.
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Sorry to reply to you here on some elses thread, but I just felt like saying, I can finally relate to someone. I'm only 17 days, but everyday gets better, just wish I had energy, you know what I mean.
 
kooterlover said:
Opiate addiction is the worst I believe. I get so pissed sometimes at NA meeting hearing the crackheads and tweekers saying how hjard it is. Try some fucking Heroin asshole, than you talk to me how hard it is. I know this is very offensive, but I just had to say it.
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Honestly from what ive seen addiction to methamphetamine is much much worse then opiate addiction. Atleast with a steady supply of opiates your more or less fine but with meth your fucked either way. The WD's are supposed to be nothing short of terrible and psychosis is common during meth WD.

As for cocaine ive never become addicted to it but i could easily see myself becoming very addicted to it if i had the money to always afford it. I never thought i was the type to actually crave coke but during my brief stint of IV coke use i craved oh boy did i crave. It was worse then opiate cravings i get during WD. Sure theres no physical WD to cocaine but it's more destructive then opiates in my opinion and it can certainly be very addictive. Ive seen people completely wreck their lives way faster on coke/crack then on any opiate.

Also maybe abit of sympathy for people suffering from other addictions wouldnt hurt perhaps?
 
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kooterlover said:
Opiate addiction is the worst I believe. I get so pissed sometimes at NA meeting hearing the crackheads and tweekers saying how hjard it is. Try some fucking Heroin asshole, than you talk to me how hard it is. I know this is very offensive, but I just had to say it.

Sorry for going off there for a bit.
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that's a matter of opinion. what's easy for you may be hard for someone else.

ive been addicted to everything. my main issues are heroin and meth.

in my opinion, meth and amphetamines are the hardest to quit. ive gotten off of heroin. the aid of suboxone has helped with that. i have never struggled so much with any other drug, as much as i have with meth.
 
^Don't wanna touch this.. but I'll say that while cravings for crack and complete lethargic demeanor are intense after a multi month binge, its nothing a few benzos and days of sleep won't fix. Heroin/ methadone WD on the other hand is absolutely nothing short of a prolonged hell on earth. Just my $.02.

Ahh subs.. it pained me to cave after a full out 6 week WD from methadone to get on them, but as mentioned before, it can get you out of the lifestyle. It can be expensive without insurance, but I get it free and it saves me money. I find myself using less and less because the transition from dope to subs is an uncomfortable 2 day affair that I just don't want to deal with more than once a fortnight.

I as well am a poor candidate for raw WD due to unbearable arthritis like symptoms and severe depression/suicidal thoughts. I lost around 15 lbs kicking methadone, which is too much for a 117 lb person lol.
 
^ your one of the fortunate ones in getting off ORT. I've been on it for the better part of 35 yrs... and hate it with a passion.... especially subs. MMT wasn't so bad. The only thing I hate more then subs... is subs WD's.
 
Suboxone is a lot easier to "quit" than oxycodone even though it has a longer half life. Withdrawals from prolonged use might be more drawn out than oxycodone withdrawals, but you do not have the compulsion to use and get that dopamine release. You can taper as slow as you want...something that is nearly impossible to do on full-agonist opiates without the help of a 3rd party to watch your dope/medication.

In your case though, you are IVing oxycodone. IMO it would not hurt one bit to switch to bupe for 2 weeks (or even a month).
 
*Venus* said:
I as well am a poor candidate for raw WD due to unbearable arthritis like symptoms and severe depression/suicidal thoughts.
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I can relate... if it was just a week ot two of pure WD's with no other health issues, it would be tolerable. I also have arthritis... along with shrapnel in leg/chest, and PTSD. Going w/o sleep and RLS kicks the other health issues in for me. YUK!!
 
It depends on what you want. You can use sub as a long term maint., but it will still run your life so to speak. The other option is using it short term to get through the worst of the opiate withdrawal. If I could go back, I'd opt for the short term solution.
 
I joined jtoday because I want to share my personal expirience with subs. I have been an opiate addict for most of my adult life. I always have and always will love drugs. However, after struggling with opiate addiction for 5 years I decided that I would get on methadone. I was on it for 4 years at my highest dose being 200 mgs daily. I cdould no longer afford the gas to get their everyday and just the burden of being on it in general. I detoxted to 20 mgs a day (which was hell). Then I went on the suboxone program. In the first few months it was great I felt "normal" for the first time in a very long time. It was kind of scary because it was like I didnt even know how to act with my "new life". I realized after getting off the of the methadone how sick my actions had made me when I was on it. I didnt realize it at the time b/c I was high all the time. I realized how much I had hurt my family and boyfriend at the time. I was out of fucking control. However, I have now been on the subs for 9 months and I have to be honest-that "good"feeling that I had when I first got on the subs is completly gone. I struggle with cravings daily. I know that I would be using again if I had the resources to. But I have since moved to a small town where I know no one. I just want to say I guess that everyone has told me that going from that dose of methadone to subs was a huge accomplishment for me. Now, I am contiplating daily getting back on methadone. Honestly, the only reason that I dont is not because of the addiction part of it, but because I do not want to gain weight again. I was thin and pretty before methadone. I am not a fat ugly slob now. But., I can say that I am not the same. :(. I dont know if anyone feels the same way as I do but I would sure like to know if anyone has anything to share on what I have shared. If not I hope that someone can find some use to this post.
 
Sure suboxone helps you "stay off" opiates because it is an opiate lol. So you're actually staying on opiates while you take it. And I find it sad some sub patients don't even seem to realize this (not addressing anyone in this thread).

I would use suboxone to taper off a habit, but never to stay on the suboxone for an undetermined amount of time. And the reason is simple, opiates make me a bum absent of any ambition to be successful in life. You just reach a certain point in long term physical addiction where your content not having anything in life.
Suboxone gave me energy for 2 weeks initially, but after that I was the same opiate bum I was on any other opiates before that.

My idea of successfully getting off opiates involves a slow taper (not a fast one you don't taper off ssris fast why should opiates be any different?) and then taking something like adderal for a couple months to offset the lethargy and depression from paws. Although I can't take any sort of amphetamine so I'm fucked in that respect. If you cold turkey off opiates than taking adderal would not be that smart imo, because cold turkey spikes your adrenaline so high that amphetamines won't mix well. But a slow taper, and low dose of adderal seems like a better plan than using sub imo. You gotta break that addiction somehow not keep supplementing it.
 
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