Opioids Does opioid tolerance ever truly diminish entirely?

[wezface]

Thank you. I want to add that people should keep in mind the physicality of addiction. It literally changes the way your brain operates. Your brain is a learning computer and while it can completely regenerate at the cellular level, those learned patterns and feelings and expectations will stick around (such as PAWS).

 

[atreyaferret]

Thank you. I want to add that people should keep in mind the physicality of addiction. It literally changes the way your brain operates. Your brain is a learning computer and while it can completely regenerate at the cellular level, those learned patterns and feelings and expectations will stick around (such as PAWS).

I don't know why I always have a hard time explaining this to others. But, I feel like you hit the nail on the head. My body reacts physically when acquiring or when I'm about to take DOC, no matter how long it's been in between uses.

 

[wezface]

I don't know why I always have a hard time explaining this to others. But, I feel like you hit the nail on the head. My body reacts physically when acquiring or when I'm about to take DOC, no matter how long it's been in between uses.

Ohhh yeah. And the more intense the drug, the more intense the feeling. Whenever I think about slamming coke, I literally get nauseated and sometimes vomit, and I get that tingly feeling in my nether regions that I get when something is in my bloodstream.

 

[siq]

Maybe not fully, I mean nothing is ever gonna be like the first time... But, you can lower it to a point where its close. And "close" to the first time, is good enough for me.

 

[atreyaferret]

It was intentional... I was having serious breathing issues and was sick of chasing meds. Sorry your post op kind of sucked though

No worries. It was tolerable. Just not what I expected.

 

[atreyaferret]

Maybe not fully, I mean nothing is ever gonna be like the first time... But, you can lower it to a point where its close. And "close" to the first time, is good enough for me.

Cheers to that.

 

[atreyaferret]

Ohhh yeah. And the more intense the drug, the more intense the feeling.

And the rebounds are always worse too.

 

[when I dream]

Acquired drug tolerance is by definition completely reversible. The rate at which this occurs is dependent on the particular drug being used, as well as the dosage and frequency of use. If one picks up again after a period of abstinence and goes from, for example, getting high from 10mg of oxycodone to only getting high from 80+mg in two days, they simply did not give their brain enough time to heal. How can any of you claim to know this is untrue when no one participating in this discussion has ever quit for a substantial amount of time?

Also, drug tolerance (I.e. the subject of this thread) exclusively refers to the phenomena of requiring more drug to achieve equivalent effects. It has nothing to do with learned behaviors, patterns, feelings or expectations, although given enough time any of these can be changed as well. What cannot be readily reversed is memory; once you try heroin it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to completely forget how it feels.

I would certainly welcome hearing about the experience of someone who has managed to ever quit using for a truly lengthy period of time before returning to use. Until then, I will continue to believe what I was taught.

 

[ThePharmacist4925]

For me the tolerance always seems to stay. I can go back to doing stupid amounts of oxy without much worry of an overdose, obviously I wouldn't just swallow 4 OC 80's right away but it's amazing how quickly I can get to that point, only a few days at most, or to the point of sniffing 3 open 40's a day, Idk I feel like I have a general drug tolerance left over from my wild years

 

[Machine_Elf]

I would hazard a guess that it seems you have a higher tolerance for psychological reasons, you are used to the feeling of it and don't concentrate and analyse it like when you started.

I haven't heard about DXM doing this, I was fairly sure Ibogaine was the only drug known that reverses opiate addiction.
I really want to get my hands on some!

 

[atreyaferret]

Acquired drug tolerance is by definition completely reversible. The rate at which this occurs is dependent on the particular drug being used, as well as the dosage and frequency of use. If one picks up again after a period of abstinence and goes from, for example, getting high from 10mg of oxycodone to only getting high from 80+mg in two days, they simply did not give their brain enough time to heal. How can any of you claim to know this is untrue when no one participating in this discussion has ever quit for a substantial amount of time?

Also, drug tolerance (I.e. the subject of this thread) exclusively refers to the phenomena of requiring more drug to achieve equivalent effects. It has nothing to do with learned behaviors, patterns, feelings or expectations, although given enough time any of these can be changed as well. What cannot be readily reversed is memory; once you try heroin it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to completely forget how it feels.

I would certainly welcome hearing about the experience of someone who has managed to ever quit using for a truly lengthy period of time before returning to use. Until then, I will continue to believe what I was taught.

I actually quit for 8 years once. I would think that's a long enough amount of time for my brain/body to heal considering my usage back then. I feel like when I used again after that period of time I was back at square one. I ended up splitting a 30mg roxi with someone. We crushed it, put it in a small shot of warm water and threw it back. I was lit like a firecracker.

 

[wezface]

Acquired drug tolerance is by definition completely reversible. The rate at which this occurs is dependent on the particular drug being used, as well as the dosage and frequency of use. If one picks up again after a period of abstinence and goes from, for example, getting high from 10mg of oxycodone to only getting high from 80+mg in two days, they simply did not give their brain enough time to heal. How can any of you claim to know this is untrue when no one participating in this discussion has ever quit for a substantial amount of time?

Also, drug tolerance (I.e. the subject of this thread) exclusively refers to the phenomena of requiring more drug to achieve equivalent effects. It has nothing to do with learned behaviors, patterns, feelings or expectations, although given enough time any of these can be changed as well. What cannot be readily reversed is memory; once you try heroin it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to completely forget how it feels.

I would certainly welcome hearing about the experience of someone who has managed to ever quit using for a truly lengthy period of time before returning to use. Until then, I will continue to believe what I was taught.

Sorry to delve into the philosophical end of the pool just a tad, but I'm curious to know if you think psychological dependence is measurably distinguishable from physical tolerance. Basically. If tolerance is by definition purely chemical, can it truly be measured anecdotally using experiential data points? Or is it impossible because of psychological overlay?

 

[CfZrx]

With repeated use tolerance rapidly builds to where it was at its peak in about a week. This phenomenon has been well documented from doctors who treat patients for pain who've been on analgesics before.

Damn, I thought I was really sick after all those 1 week relapses last year...

 

[when I dream]

Sorry to delve into the philosophical end of the pool just a tad, but I'm curious to know if you think psychological dependence is measurably distinguishable from physical tolerance. Basically. If tolerance is by definition purely chemical, can it truly be measured anecdotally using experiential data points? Or is it impossible because of psychological overlay?

They are absolutely distinguishable. One could be hopelessly psychologically dependent on a substance without being physically dependent in the slightest. I'm not sure what kind of units you would use, but I believe physical dependence could certainly be measured if all variables were known (length of use, amount of use, body weight, gender, level of innate tolerance, etc., etc.). I doubt there actually exists such an equation (although I could be wrong) but I think it definitely is possible.

 

[wezface]

They are absolutely distinguishable. One could be hopelessly psychologically dependent on a substance without being physically dependent in the slightest. I'm not sure what kind of units you would use, but I believe physical dependence could certainly be measured if all variables were known (length of use, amount of use, body weight, gender, level of innate tolerance, etc., etc.). I doubt there actually exists such an equation (although I could be wrong) but I think it definitely is possible.

That's what I was thinking too, but it's also assumptive and naive I think to completely discount overlap even in measurable terms. Do the variables include chemical changes caused BY those behaviors and emotions and other "dependence" issues? Dependence may be a psychological phenomenon but by default psychological phenomena have a neurobiological basis. So where do you draw the line? What criteria puts a particular chemical phenomenon in one camp or the other?

 

[when I dream]

It's an interesting idea but no, I don't think so. Your level of psychological dependence may determine how to tolerant you ultimately become, simply because someone who is more mentally addicted to a substance will likely use more than someone who is less addicted. But I don't think your level of psychological dependence on a drug will directly determine how rapidly one gains or loses a physical tolerance.

 

[atreyaferret]

With repeated use tolerance rapidly builds to where it was at its peak in about a week. This phenomenon has been well documented from doctors who treat patients for pain who've been on analgesics before.

Soooo many factors are involved. There is a science to all of it, but everyone is different. May take some longer to hit their peak versus someone who hits it again in 2 to 3 days

 

[Bliss26]

I have the same experience as purple haze.
When I have no opiate in my system for awhile , the first few doses I might need less than where I left off ( but never as low as baseline) but inside of a week I'm ramped up exactly where I left off.
That first dose though, on an opiate free body, is still aaahhhhh like a breath of fresh air. Within the third or fourth dose I'm dosing just not to feel like death warmed over.

 

[Erikmen]

Soooo many factors are involved. There is a science to all of it, but everyone is different. May take some longer to hit their peak versus someone who hits it again in 2 to 3 days

The longer you stay away from opiates the stronger the next hit will be, same applies for the subsequent withdraws IMO.

 

[atreyaferret]

The longer you stay away from opiates the stronger the next hit will be, same applies for the subsequent withdraws IMO.

Agreed. After about 8 years sober I split a 30 roxi with someone and it knocked me on my ass. Gawd. I was so emotional it was ridiculous. Fun night though.