Does methoxetamine (MXE) lower opiate tolerance?

[Workin2005]

I'm a little confused by methoxetamine (MXE). I've read it is an opiate and read that it isn't. Ketamine is known for, among other things, lowering tolerance to opiates. MXE being similar to ketamine, does MXE do the same or the opposite? If MXE is an opiate itself, then anyone taking it in hopes of lowering opiate tolerance would be doing the opposite...actually increasing there tolerance...right? Does anyone know or have a clear answer to this? Does MXE lower opiate tolerance like ketamine?

 

[Albion]

I don't think MXE will necessarily lower opiate tolerance.

What it does do is potentiate the effects of opiates if it's taken whilst high.

 

[ebola?]

No one yet knows whether methoxetamine has agonism at mu-opioid sites or to what degree. Ketamine, however, has confirmed minor agonism at mu. Thus, we should expect MXE to be similarly useful in combating tolerance to opioids.

ebola

 

[Workin2005]

I don't think MXE will necessarily lower opiate tolerance.

What it does do is potentiate the effects of opiates if it's taken whilst high.

JSPete...do you find a low dose of MXE (maybe 5 mgs) potentiates opiates or do you need to take a greater amount to experience the opiate potentiating benifits?

Since it is not realistic for a daily opiate user to take high doses of MXE daily. It would, however, be possible to take small doses of MXE with their regular opiate and maybe reduce their opiate dose. Obviously this is just theory but given the current availability of MXE, I think it's worth exploring.

 

[Albion]

Very low dosages of MXE I find greatly potentiate the effects of opiates

5mg ought to work well. IME you don't want to take any more than 20mg, or else you're just going to leave reality in an unprepared way, taking matters out of your hands in a way you shouldn't allow on opiates.

 

[Workin2005]

Very low dosages of MXE I find greatly potentiate the effects of opiates

5mg ought to work well. IME you don't want to take any more than 20mg, or else you're just going to leave reality in an unprepared way, taking matters out of your hands in a way you shouldn't allow on opiates.

So when you say 5 mgs of MXE to potentiate your opiate, do you mean 5 mgs injected IM or would say 5 mgs taken subligually work? I ask because if your referring to injecting, then my guess is the dose would need to be increased to potentiate the opiate of choice if done, say, orally...maybe 8-10 mgs or so oral = 5 mgs injected. Obviously without knowing the oral bioavailability of MXE, this is just speculation.

Anyone else experimented with MXE to potientiate opiates and/or lower opiate tolerance?

 

[Albion]

I was referring to insufflation really.

No need whatsoever to IV/IM your MXE if you're just using it to potentiate opiates.

 

[limonov]

I've found that plugging is the best way to take MXE (in general and as a potentiator)- all other ROA (bar IM/IV) have a very slow onset, while plugging kicks in fully in about 10-15 minutes. Often I'd be plugging the opiates at the same time, or I'd dose the opiate orally then plug some MXE about 15 minutes later so everything kicks in at about the same time.

Also, what JSpete said about about it being irresponsible to take high doses of MXE while on opiates is a reckless thing to do- if you do OD you have virtually no chance of summoning anyone to help you, even if there are people in the next room (forget about trying to call an ambulance). The only time that I genuinely thought that I was going over was after taking too much methoxetamine (which is, as I'm sure you know, very very easy to do). Fortunately all I ended up doing was passing out in a chair and waking up flat on my face- but even then I was lucky that I didn't cause any nerve damage etc etc. A guy I met had a hand amputated after he passed out on heroin with his hand wedged between his body and a bit of furniture- cut off the blood flow for 4 hours...seriously. Besides, waking up on the floor ain't that sexy.

 

[Workin2005]

Thanks for the responses. Agreed...high dose MXE with opiates is just foolish. My main interest in MXE is its potential to help reduce opiate tolerance. Mixing very low doses of MXE with opiates in order to reduce the amount of opiate needed sounds like it may have some real potential.

Has anyone else experimented with this?

 

[sekio]

As far as I know things like ketamine/DXM do not actually "lower" tolerance; they simply help prevent tolerance build-up. The only true way to lower your tolerance is cessation of use and time.

That said - high dose MXE and opiates would be rather pleasant if dosed correctly. I wouldn't be comfortable going from 100mg mxe to 100mg mxe+50mg oxycodone, but titrating upwards very slowly could be quite rewarding. IME the respiratory depression of opiates is somewhat negated by the stimulatory/DAT effects of MXE.

 

[Nagelfar]

Agreed...high dose MXE with opiates is just foolish.

I further the agreement. Both classes of drug cause a measure of respiratory depression that is incrementally additive, and through two rather different & separate means of its regulation from the central nervous system at that. Which just makes for a condition rife for strongly compounding the contra-indicated effects thereof. As it is arguably the prime autonomic side-effect of both substances, a note of caution should always be taken if one is to be co-administered while under the persuasion of another.

 

[Poodles!]

I used MXE with my pods 1-2 monrhs into using (roughly weekly/bi weekly). I found my tolerance build up slowed dramatically. this was roughly 10 mgs sublingual/buccal for 5 minutes before chugging the tea and anti-histamines, with odd dabs as top ups. I maintained a good dose of 4-6 decent sized gigantheum pods for a good couple monthsd epending on how O'ped I wanted to get.

I found that a threshold dose combined really nicely with the tea! For a while it really bought out the stimulating side of the poppy. It felt almost like a really chilled out stim. I was motivated, confident, chatty, and drank it with MXE when pulling a couple all nighters to get a literature review finished! Tolerance to MXE's stimulant effect builds up quickly though unfortunately, so this effect is no longer that pronounced unless i'm abstinent from MXE for a few weeks.

A few months starting to take MXE with my pods, I ran out of MXE and just didn't get round to ordering some more for ages. I was using up yo 8 pods at the time, but that quickly increased and I realied I couldn't drink it so often. These days I need between 10 and 15, depenging on how fucked I want to get and use it a lot less. I'm currently taking a month or two using pods at all to give my tolerance a break.

Unfortunately, the higher your opiate dose, the less effect MXE has at keeping tolerance at bay, Every time I indulge now I push my tolerance up another notch, and I can't up really up the MXE dosage as the dissociative effect can sully a pergectly good pod experience .

 

[sekio]

MXE is not a miracle drug for preventing tolerance, no drug is.

 

[Poodles!]

MXE is not a miracle drug for preventing tolerance, no drug is.

Exactly. NMDA antagonists can certainly do their bit to help, but if you're a dependant you'll do no more than delay the inevitable.

We're only really just scratching the surface of the science behind tolerance and addiction and the role of the NMDA receptor. I'm a final year physics student and I can tell you that we probably know as much about the human brain, something we have had with us since we became a distinct species, as we do about the universe. It's gonna be some time before we have complete control over tolerance!

 

[bluedolphin]

I recently got an Rx for Percocet for an injury.

Combined with MXE I found it made the Percs feel more "rushy"... it did not make me nod or get any closer to nodding... but there was a strong body euphoria feeling that neither of these drugs would produce on their own.

It didn't take much MXE to produce this effect, and not much Oxycodone either. I'm talking like anywhere between 10mg-15mg oxycodone plus 10mg-20mg of MXE here and there... the rushes seemed like they would come out of nowhere. Pretty intense, actually.

 

[Nagelfar]

I recently got an Rx for Percocet for an injury.

Combined with MXE I found it made the Percs feel more "rushy"... it did not make me nod or get any closer to nodding... but there was a strong body euphoria feeling that neither of these drugs would produce on their own.

It didn't take much MXE to produce this effect, and not much Oxycodone either. I'm talking like anywhere between 10mg-15mg oxycodone plus 10mg-20mg of MXE here and there... the rushes seemed like they would come out of nowhere. Pretty intense, actually.

I find colloquial mentions like this quite interesting and make of the idea some worthy consideration for further speculation on what exactly it is that makes NMDA antagonists and mu-opioid agonists synergize like they do.

 

[yoyoman]

a small bump (3mg or so) of MXE sometime before I took some kratom (a normal dose of good bali, 5-6g) and it had me nodding hardcore like never before. My eyes were crossing and they just wanted to close, got into bed and just nodded out to sleep. MXE lasts a long time it seems too, but yeah.. mxe+kratom = whoa.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Unfortunately for me, just in terms of their sheer fuckin expensiveness, i seem to have a high natural tolerance to opiates. I'm pretty new to them really and only tried a few different types, but the doses i need for a high off each type are on the high side of the range right from the start, and then with repeated dosing further tolerance develops very quickly. For instance I've only tied oral morphine a few times, and started safely low dose wise, but my required oral dose has quickly spiralled to 360 mg. I have no idea wtf is going on, when the lethal dose range for opiate naive is said to start at around 120 mg ?

So the possibilty that threshold doses of MXE could be useful for limiting the development of tolerance to opiates and / or possibly potentiating the opiate high is an interesting one. I have only taken MXE about 3 or 4 times and i am sensitive to it. Obviously the effects of the 2 substances are worlds apart but so far I have found the effects of opiates much more agreeable than MXE, so am currently much more interested in the opiates rather than further exploring MXE, and wouldnt want the MXE to 'interfere' with the opiate high in any way, so what sort of dose of MXE might be helpful for making this possible ?

I'd be very interested to hear if anyone had success trying this, or even if theyve tried the combo and not had the desired effects

Thanks.

 

[sekio]

oral dose has quickly spiralled to 360 mg. I have no idea wtf is going on, when the lethal dose range for opiate naive is said to start at around 120 mg

Welcome to the wonderful world of opioid tolerance. You're not drug-naive any more once you take opioids with any regularity.

MXE will potentiate opioids but not in the classic sedative sense. I think it has to do with MXE's dopamine reuptake inhibitor activity (viz. combining opioids plus methylphenidate or cocaine).

wouldnt want the MXE to 'interfere' with the opiate high in any way, so what sort of dose of MXE might be helpful for making this possible ?

You do realize you are combining two strong psychoactive drugs. You would need to take a less-than-threshold dose of MXE if you wanted to avoid feeling it, and then I doubt it would do much for potentiation.

And as I have stated before, there's no wonder drugs that will totally prevent or reverse tolerance. Perhaps you should consider leaving opioids alone.

 

[TerrapinStation]

I use prescribed hydrocodone almost daily for chronic pain management, but try to adhere to an abstinence period of 3-4 days every month in an effort to minimize tolerance issues. On these opiate-free days, MXE at 20-30mg plugged not only gives pain relief, but pretty much abolishes any cravings for the opiates.

On a side note, I've been using ultra low dose naltrexone (~1ug/10mg hydrocodone) for the same purpose, as the Oxytrex trials look promising.