Heroin Does heroin addiction last a lifetime no matter what??

[cogito ergo sum]

The sad thing is, nothing in life will ever make you feel as amazing as heroin. End of story pretty much. Just always remind yourself of the negative effects, and how it rules and ruins your life in the long run. Maybe watch Requiem for a Dream, haha, that movie always scares me away from heroin a little. Good luck though man, I wish you the best in keeping away from that shit. It's ruined some of my really close friends, nothing good comes out of super addictive drugs.

 

[bben]

i think its there at least a little bit for life. Heroin is probably the most rewarding feeling a human can feel, so of course you want to do it again.

 

[axe battler]

Just a shout out for opiates! They are the most fucking wonderful thing in the world!!!

Just a shame it doesn't last; suppose it's the same with everything though: everything gets boring eventually, even blissful, fuzzy, fluffy, cosy perfection.

I hardly ever stop thinking about them and I consider myself quite in control.

 

[Uber_Penguin]

My opinion is that those people who are forced to quit for some reason, from some outside pressure other than their own desire and recognition of how shitty being addicted can be, tend to be those people who are most likely to have an issue. I don't have a lot of experience, certainly nowhere even close to some of the veterans on here, but I feel like addiction is just one of those things that an individual has to figure out for themselves, even if that means they have to sink to the lowest of the lows before they decide that they don't want that shit anymore, but I base this just on the short period of being around other addicted individuals that I've had. It seems like those people who always had warmth, food, and a family that loved them and never had to make the decision whether or not to give that up for opiates tend to not have had enough experience with just how badly opiates can destroy everything you have to understand it as deeply as someone who has.

Of course that in no way means only people who were privileged all through addiction are the only ones who will have an issue...some people's mental makeup I suppose just "clicks" absolutely perfectly with whatever drug it may be, and the kind of relief they gain from it just eclipses the memories of all those times they withdrew or had to go through all the painful/shameful shit that they did just for a fix.

 

[laCster]

"You can turn your back on a person, but never turn your back on a drug, especially when its waving a razor sharp hunting knife in your eye."
-Hunter S. Thompson

 

[ollieideal]

yes spesh when u overdose

 

[Pralus]

I was reading the wikipedia article on morphine out of boredom, and it definitely states that once addicted, one will be addicted psychologically for a lifetime, even after getting past the physical effects.

Can someone please tell me this isn't true???

what a load of complete bollocks. No is the simle answer. I used to wake up every God damn day thinking the only choice I have before breakfast, spoon no conflakes required, was to score. Period. You'll find the people who experience the above are either in early recovery, which is tough like that or have yet to resolve the issues that gave them the insatiable desire to keep on getting high/numb in the first place, besides the usual need created by the drug in the first place, of course. As people have said it does pop up once in a while but how you gonna think about it?.... Ooooh lifes so much better creating a constant need for that thing that fucked my self esteem, relationships and peace of mind that, oh, I never needed before you started taking it.


After a good while clean and sober I ve done drugs since sure, crossed the line? Sure but dreaming about taking Heroin? I quite like none of the above, doesn't everyone?

Bottom line?... I can tell somethings up when I feel like getting really fucked. Chances are I don't feel good about myself, or have decided not to stand tall in life about who I am. Goes up an down but valuing youself, having interests, good friends and more purpose in anyway led me to a place of not even considering heroin or having to use will power to not use. It's just too black and White "addicted psychologically for lifelitme" what utter poppycock, that's the kind of nonsense that scares good honest junkies from even trying. An honest quote would be " once addicted, one will be addicted psychologically for a lifetime, even after getting past the physical effects if he/she continues to believe that the one thing that fucked them up is the one thing that might just be a solution to the pain in their life."

 

[Cane2theLeft]

what a load of complete bollocks. No is the simle answer. I used to wake up every God damn day thinking the only choice I have before breakfast, spoon no conflakes required, was to score. Period. You'll find the people who experience the above are either in early recovery, which is tough like that or have yet to resolve the issues that gave them the insatiable desire to keep on getting high/numb in the first place, besides the usual need created by the drug in the first place, of course. As people have said it does pop up once in a while but how you gonna think about it?....

I'd be hesitant to say that statement is wholly true or false... the reality is that addiction is far too complex for such simple maxims.

Ooooh lifes so much better creating a constant need for that thing that fucked my self esteem, relationships and peace of mind that, oh, I never needed before you started taking it.

Addicts may not have needed that specific substance before trying it, but I find it hard to believe anyone would fall into the perils of outright addiction if they didn't lack something prior to trying it (whether that lack is purely perception or not is regardless).

When you take the long-view of humanity, you find that regardless of which substances are in or out of fashion, which are more or less available, regardless of the consequences, a certain portion of people are going to use and become addicted. The rates have not changed drastically whether you could order morphine and syringe from Sears Roebuck, whether the only available intoxicant was mead or when you could order virtually anything via the internet and have it sent to your doorstep.

The fact is about 80-85% of people can use substances, whether that be experimental or casual and 15-20% of people are essentially bound for addiction. Whether you want to chalk this up to genetic predisposition, psychological problems or whatever factors you desire, addiction rates remain relatively constant.

Another statistic that remains relatively constant is the numbers of people who've been addicted, gotten clean and could ever use casually and sustainably again... this is next to zero.

Lots of people get over their addiction and no longer meet the criteria for active substance dependence according to the DSM-IV-TR criteria but they still consider the diagnosis to be chronic (lifelong).

After a good while clean and sober I ve done drugs since sure, crossed the line? Sure but dreaming about taking Heroin? I quite like none of the above, doesn't everyone?

Bottom line?... I can tell somethings up when I feel like getting really fucked. Chances are I don't feel good about myself, or have decided not to stand tall in life about who I am. Goes up an down but valuing youself, having interests, good friends and more purpose in anyway led me to a place of not even considering heroin or having to use will power to not use. It's just too black and White "addicted psychologically for lifelitme" what utter poppycock, that's the kind of nonsense that scares good honest junkies from even trying. An honest quote would be " once addicted, one will be addicted psychologically for a lifetime, even after getting past the physical effects if he/she continues to believe that the one thing that fucked them up is the one thing that might just be a solution to the pain in their life."

If people hold the perception of psychological addiction that you do, then I agree. I don't think that persists forever in people who've gotten clean. Most people who genuinely get clean struggle with the craving and PAWS for a matter of months and (rarely) years at worst but NOT the rest of their lives.

I would say, to drastically oversimplify, that the extent to which the psychological "addiction" persists directly correlates to the reasons why it developed in the first place and how much the individual did to address this and move past this when they got clean. If people do nothing to address why they used and the destruction their used caused, of course these issues will persist. Something powerful enough to lead you to fuck up nearly every aspect of your life doesn't just go away without any effort... likewise, with any effort it likely won't last anywhere near as long as someone is alive.

 

[2manyopiates]

I sure hope not. i'm on day 2 atm... self suboxone treating myself.

 

[DavisK4high247]

A lot of the soldiers who got hooked on heroin in Vietnam quit using when they got back to the States. The heroin which was available at the time in America was utter crap next to the H they were getting in the Nam: there was also a change of place and situation which made it easier for them to leave their habit behind once they got stateside.

My father became physically addicted to morphine after getting wounded in Korea. Once he kicked it, he felt no further desire to use again. I also know a friend who became physically addicted to oxycodone after an operation. She was dopesick for a few days (and mightily pissed off at her doctors), but never went back to using. I've gathered this is also the case for many people who become addicted to prescribed drugs. Once their condition is cured and they get through withdrawal, they have no desire to continue taking the drug.

The whole myth of the inherently seductive and addictive properties of opiates comes from the 19th and early 20th century, when there was a huge push to regulate their distribution and prescription. About that time the myth of "soldiers' disease" (widespread addiction to morphine and opium among Civil War soldiers) begins. The idea was to make opiates look like a deadly poison which could ensnare even the most dewy-eyed innocent if they were used regularly. This meant they could regulate doctors because, after all, they were just Protecting the Children from the evils of abused prescription drugs. (Sound familiar?)

There's some truth to "once a junkie, always a junkie." If you were once psychologically addicted to a substance, chances are good that your addiction will return if you start using again. But there's a huge difference between physical and psychological addiction. You can have one without the other -- and for the purposes of long-term sobriety, it is the psychological addiction which matters.

(I'm currently writing a book on P. somniferum and its various derivatives, so I've been studying the subject at some length. And let me just say that I have truly enjoyed the hell out of my research ).

One of the main reasons for the "soldiers diseas' of morphine addiction post-civil war was most likely that until the 1914 law was passed ,anyone could obtain without prescription drugs like morphine,cocaine,heroin,opium,etc. just by walking into a drug store and asking for the drug and paying for it.Mail order catalogues of the era also sold heroin,morphine,etc, with a syringe included..A lot of middle american farm or"house wives" of the era were using morphine,heroin,and opium,in some form or another for sooting aches and pains and simply to help with the boredom,as women going into a bar to buy alcohol was not alowed many places or was greatly looked down upon for a women to go and drink booze ,many used opaites instead and they were cheap,easy to obtain and of the highest pharmacuetical quality. Bayer heroin and cough syrups of the day containing morphine and heroin were sold in large amounts.Cocaine was availbale as well and racism towards black people using cocaine was one of the arguments for it's being made illegal,like opium was illegal for chinese only in san Francisco ,one of the first drug laws ever,whites could buy and use opium,but chinese were forbidden to do so as "they might corrupt white females,etc" in the racist terms of the era...

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^see what I posted above about taking the long-view of history.

At the time that opiates were widely available, easily accessible and wholly legal, use rates for those specific drugs were larger than they are today yet addiction rates really did not vary that substantially. Throughout history the availability, legality, cultural views regarding morality, etc. have shifted greatly and so certain drugs have boomed and busted in their use rates, but the percentage of addicts and the effects addiction have had on society have not varied wildly.

Kenaz, you're far more well-versed in the subject and since I'm sure you've learned more about this topic researching your book since your last comments, what say you?

On a quasi-related note, have you read much/any Bruce K. Alexander or Stanton Peele? From what I've read by them, they use many of the same arguments and examples.

I think the most important point to take away from what you posted above (and what Peele and Alexander thoroughly demonstrate) is that opioids don't cause addiction. Perhaps the best illustration of this is Alexander's rat park studies.

 

[IVXLCDM]

wtf!? A lifetime? Maybe for some people with no self control whatsoever. To me, that's horse-fed-grade A-shit. Saying I'm one step away from addiction because I think "that was a great feeling" is like saying I'm one step away from being a rapist cause I think "I'd like to fuck the shit outta that chick on the sidewalk." When you know the ends are wrong, you will not give the means the time of day.

I've come clean off tenured and heavy abuse of benzos, barbs, and dope for more than a year. Now: None, nothing, nada. I don't think about them, I think more about getting shit done so I'm not out of a house, vehicle, job, etc. I'm not even far removed from my "ol' circle", seeing as my roommate has it delivered to our apartment every other day. I don't care. My thoughts regarding it "that was a great feeling, but it was totally overshadowed by the negative aspects of use, which turned it into a great headache. Socially, financially, medically." Fuck that NA mumbo jumbo, they just want to convince people with no self control of their own helplessness. Granted there may be a little truth behind whatever they spew out, but if you are truly committed --that statement is nothing but asinine.


...and I probably need to change my avatar as well. Now I don't let a needle touch me, even at a hematologists' prodding. I've fished around in there, and my veins have taken all the abuse I will allow!

...and this is probably OT, but I think med school enlightens you to all the trauma you might ignore as a junkie. Though this is my no means a rule, many senior classmate's addictions have gotten worse with supposedly more knowledge and insight. Perhaps it's overestimating one's own self-control?...anyway I ramble. I just had to respond to this thread because this "lifetime an addict" thing reeks of self-defeatist propaganda that has been shoved down our throats (at least mine, thank you DARE, thank you Reagan. /end early morning rant)

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^right, not-for-profit support groups have a sinister agenda of teaching people they are helpless in order to help them. Brilliant logic.

Either you are in the majority than can abuse drugs and not be thrown into addiction or you're rationalizing, either way you've not refuted the evidence of the existence of the condition of substance dependence nor added anything of substance to the discussion except your chest-thumping about how much you've consumed and how you aren't an addict.... congrats!

As you said, you don't think about them. For many, this isn't the case. They crave, they rationalize, their entire cognitive functioning is rewired and no one with any credibility would claim this can be willed away with self-control.

EDIT:

I apologize if this has an adversarial or patronizing tone at all but I took your post as rather demeaning to both the people who suffer from addiction and those who selflessly try to help them.

 

[IVXLCDM]

I understand what their saying (by they I mean NPOs). I'm not denouncing them. I'm saying they use hyperbole far too liberally. "always" is what get's to me. And if it sounds like chest thumping, it's just my frustration, because I've gone through all of this. The worst of the addiction, and by no means am I detracting from them or those who help them. I'd just like transparency in that situation, and everyone I've known hasn't been afforded that. Sorry if MY post sounded like horn blowing, maybe it's the morning and I'm grumpy or something.

EDIT: and maybe this has something to do with my conditioning as an addict. When I was in the throes of addiction, I received no sympathy. So maybe pathologically, I give none (I know, I know, get off this HR site then). I understand fully the harrowing aspects of addiction. But these aren't babies on dope. They are (for the most part) developed individuals, who make choices, see the consequences, repeat said choice, then cry because it bit them in the ass.

...and for the record I am only replying to Ct2L, and my first post was just a general reaction after reading the first few posts. So maybe there is misunderstanding there, and I should have read through the whole thread more thoroughly.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^Yeah, I'm in the same boat as far as it being early + grumpiness!

Regarding the gratuitous use of generalizations (always/never), I'm with you. Any time people try to pretend something that's undeniably gray is really black or white it drives me crazy. A lot of people who are strong advocates of 12-step programs bother me because they act like everyone who has ever touched a drink or drug is a junkie and HAS to go down the path they took or they're in denial.

 

[IVXLCDM]

Yes. YES! exactly ^. Someone has deciphered my through my bitterness, and seen the actual message I intended to deliver.

*Bows*

 

[Kenaz]

One of the main reasons for the "soldiers diseas' of morphine addiction post-civil war was most likely that until the 1914 law was passed ,anyone could obtain without prescription drugs like morphine,cocaine,heroin,opium,etc. just by walking into a drug store and asking for the drug and paying for it.Mail order catalogues of the era also sold heroin,morphine,etc, with a syringe included..A lot of middle american farm or"house wives" of the era were using morphine,heroin,and opium,in some form or another for sooting aches and pains and simply to help with the boredom,as women going into a bar to buy alcohol was not alowed many places or was greatly looked down upon for a women to go and drink booze ,many used opaites instead and they were cheap,easy to obtain and of the highest pharmacuetical quality. Bayer heroin and cough syrups of the day containing morphine and heroin were sold in large amounts.Cocaine was availbale as well and racism towards black people using cocaine was one of the arguments for it's being made illegal,like opium was illegal for chinese only in san Francisco ,one of the first drug laws ever,whites could buy and use opium,but chinese were forbidden to do so as "they might corrupt white females,etc" in the racist terms of the era...

The myth of the "Soldier's Disease" claimed that many Civil War soldiers were given morphine for wounds, and were then then sent home with a syringe and some medicine to dose themselves. This, of course, led to a whole generation of wastrels and drug addicts.

One problem with this myth is that syringe use was not widespread in America until the late 1870s/early 1880s at the very earliest. Another is that the physicians of the era were well aware that morphine and opium were addictive, but did not report extensive addiction among soldiers: neither do any contemporary accounts of "Soldier's Disease" exist, nor was there an enormous spike in the demand for opiates after the Civil War. The first mention of "Soldier's Disease," in fact, comes in a 1914 article which was intended to promote the new regulations on Opiates. (Jerry Mandel has done a great article on this).

You are of course correct in stating that ethnicity and race play a large role in drug laws. Chinese opium smokers and African-American crack users are dangerous thugs, while white users of laudanum and later cocaine were treated far more leniently.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^I like having you around ...and no, I'm not just doped up right now. Of course I AM doped up, but these sentiments are genuine.

 

[Kenaz]

^I like having you around ...and no, I'm not just doped up right now. Of course I AM doped up, but these sentiments are genuine.

Thanks for the kind words: they're always appreciated.

Since you are currently studying addictions counseling, I'm wondering how you feel about "Moderation Management" programs?

I think that for any substance there will be a certain number of people who are incapable of using it responsibly and who need to avoid it. But I also think that many others will be capable of learning how to use said substance responsibly and safely. And unfortunately 12-Step/Abstinence has become the One Size Fits All approach to substance abuse issues.

 

[IVXLCDM]

Unfortunately, those who can use in moderation are undermined by the hysteria caused by those who cannot. Basically, the unseen responsible user will never leave a lasting impression like the sidewalk junkie. That being said, there has been progression recently with replacement therapy, and many obscure treatments. I can't link to the abstracts, but I know a moderation management approach will be heavily stigmatized until there is irrefutable positive gain for the patient. I just see the risk and pitfall being high, as far as falling off an relapsing. That therapy woulda been a god-send for me. But I agree, only certain kinds of users would be capable of benefiting.