Does harm reduction appeal to the masses?

[Foreigner]

But what actual harm are they causing anyone by dying in public or shooting up ona park bench? Sure, maybe you don’t want to see it, but maybe that’s your problem, maybe you should just learn to tolerate other people s lifestyles. Personally if I found someone passed out with a needle in their arm in public where I live, so long as they weren’t like oding or trying to rob me, I wouldn’t care, wouldn’t bother me one bit.

Why does it bother you?

Maybe you're that apathetic but I'm not.

I think it's immoral to decriminalize drugs and promote self harm out in the open while not funding the services that can end it.

It's a sign that our society is self destructing as a whole and there's no long term evidence that this type of HR policy makes things better. Portugal's model worked but this is not that same model.

My tax dollars are going toward giving drugs to people who are ODing in the streets. The public has been turned into a financial accessory to suicide.

 

[polarthedog]

Maybe you're that apathetic but I'm not.

I think it's immoral to decriminalize drugs and promote self harm out in the open while not funding the services that can end it.

It's a sign that our society is self destructing as a whole and there's no long term evidence that this type of HR policy makes things better. Portugal's model worked but this is not that same model.

My tax dollars are going toward giving drugs to people who are ODing in the streets. The public has been turned into a financial accessory to suicide.

I’m not being apathetic, I just accept people for who they are. Wouldn’t you rather them od in public where someone would call an ambulance rather than in a secluded trap house where they’d be left to die alone?

Also, a fair amount of those people are probably not overdosing, their just really high and having a good time. Unless they want to stop, why not let them do drugs to their hearts content? How is the rest of society any better? Almost everyone’s addicted to something, what’s wrong with choosing heroin instead of social media or cell phones or codependency or w/e else

And I don’t think any of your tax dollar should is buying them drugs like heroin, it’s like suboxone and methadone.

If it wasn’t for harm reduction resources, I probably wouldn’t Ben here writing this message

 

[polarthedog]

How is it my problem if I am not in a position to stop it?

I think everyone can help, just do the next right thing, care for your fellow man, don’t be selfish, if all of us just did that, then there probably wouldn’t be too many homeless.

 

[skipjames]

I can tell only about the two countries I know better, Italy and Brazil ( I thought I knew a bit about the UK but Brexit showed me how wrong I was so I ll pass) ) :
Italy : I was born in the 80´s , the attitude was " all junkies deserve to die " and at most the Messiah of the Drug Policy was this Vincenzo Muccioli guy and his " tough love" method (worth watching if u have Netflix) Things are slightly better know especially when it comes to weed but when it comes to hard drugs harm reduction= enabling (even if we use drugs like if there is no tomorrow)

Brazil : makes Italy look as progressive as Holland. Drug dealers are one of the few ones that work reliably around the clock 24-24 7 -7 around here ( along with prostitutes but is not my cup of tea) still even otherwise rational people think that drug= evil and addicts = scum, especially the most "visible" ones, crack users which are indeed a lot and treated like subhumans. Some attempts at harm reductions have been treated and ridiculed like 'left wings bollocks". Works perfectly, Im w-d from oxys but I ve just but 2 grams of coke because...I can

 

[Foreigner]

I think everyone can help, just do the next right thing, care for your fellow man, don’t be selfish, if all of us just did that, then there probably wouldn’t be too many homeless.

This statement is detached from reality.

 

[Foreigner]

I’m not being apathetic, I just accept people for who they are. Wouldn’t you rather them od in public where someone would call an ambulance rather than in a secluded trap house where they’d be left to die alone?

So far there isn't enough evidence to conclude that if they OD in public they are more likely to get help. If they OD near a supervised use site, sure. Otherwise, I doubt that. My friend who works in the DTES of Vancouver has had to call an ambulance for many homeless people and when he asks bystanders to help they just walk right past him.

It takes a trained eye to know what an OD looks like. Most people aren't trained and don't want to be. They don't want to get involved in case violence happens. A methed out guy stabbed a father to death at a sandwich shop a couple months ago right in front of his kids. Everyone just watched. Like I said... apathy.

Also, a fair amount of those people are probably not overdosing, their just really high and having a good time.

Uh, no... the people I saw being dealt with by EMS were definitely ODing.

Unless they want to stop, why not let them do drugs to their hearts content? How is the rest of society any better? Almost everyone’s addicted to something, what’s wrong with choosing heroin instead of social media or cell phones or codependency or w/e else

It's illegal to be out-of-control drunk in public. You'll get tossed in the drunk tank. Should be the same for being high. I have no problem with people using substances in public as long as it's in moderation. Beyond that, then they need to be taken care of and that becomes the community's problem.

These people need help -- institutional help. What they're doing isn't harmless, it's not in moderation. They're hurting themselves badly, in plain sight. And in other cases, they get violent.

And I don’t think any of your tax dollar should is buying them drugs like heroin, it’s like suboxone and methadone.

British Columbia is now manufacturing drugs in-province. There is a cocaine factory now in the Fraser Valley. Tax dollars are going toward this shit.

And homeless people are obtaining the free "safe-supply" and selling it so that they can scale up to more hardcore drugs. This has been documented.

It's a fucking disaster.

A lot of these people have severe mental health issues too, with no institutional help. They're on street drugs to medicate other problems.

If it wasn’t for harm reduction resources, I probably wouldn’t Ben here writing this message

I'm not saying HR shouldn't exist, but it has to be balanced and moderated. To me, HR does not look like people being allowed to do whatever the hell they want, wherever they want.

The province needs to clean up the streets. Vancouver is looking ghetto AF these days. I don't care what people do to their own bodies as long as it's not strewn all over the city. I should be able to go to a park or beach without smelling second-hand crack smoke or seeing a junky passed out with a needle in their arm. FYI I feel the exact same about weed, alcohol, or anything else. If you're so out of it that someone else has to take care of you, then you're out of control.

There have to be boundaries between what is public and what is private. What next, people fucking in public? Because "they're not harming anybody, are they?" Fuck off. If people (especially children) shouldn't be exposed to public sex, then they shouldn't be exposed to people self-harming.

There's no evidence that this type of HR model works. BC and most of the west coast are off the grid. Like I said, Portugal's model worked. They put billions of dollars into HR services. They didn't just legalize drugs and call it a day. They had a super comprehensive public-pay drug recovery and prevention program ready to deploy. Here in BC, they decriminalized drugs and are just letting all the old + new addicts pass out in the streets so you have to step over them while going about your life. They're making it the community's problem when really it's the government's problem.

 

[polarthedog]

So far there isn't enough evidence to conclude that if they OD in public they are more likely to get help. If they OD near a supervised use site, sure. Otherwise, I doubt that. My friend who works in the DTES of Vancouver has had to call an ambulance for many homeless people and when he asks bystanders to help they just walk right past him.

It takes a trained eye to know what an OD looks like. Most people aren't trained and don't want to be. They don't want to get involved in case violence happens. A methed out guy stabbed a father to death at a sandwich shop a couple months ago right in front of his kids. Everyone just watched. Like I said... apathy.



Uh, no... the people I saw being dealt with by EMS were definitely ODing.



It's illegal to be out-of-control drunk in public. You'll get tossed in the drunk tank. Should be the same for being high. I have no problem with people using substances in public as long as it's in moderation. Beyond that, then they need to be taken care of and that becomes the community's problem.

These people need help -- institutional help. What they're doing isn't harmless, it's not in moderation. They're hurting themselves badly, in plain sight. And in other cases, they get violent.



British Columbia is now manufacturing drugs in-province. There is a cocaine factory now in the Fraser Valley. Tax dollars are going toward this shit.

And homeless people are obtaining the free "safe-supply" and selling it so that they can scale up to more hardcore drugs. This has been documented.

It's a fucking disaster.

A lot of these people have severe mental health issues too, with no institutional help. They're on street drugs to medicate other problems.



I'm not saying HR shouldn't exist, but it has to be balanced and moderated. To me, HR does not look like people being allowed to do whatever the hell they want, wherever they want.

The province needs to clean up the streets. Vancouver is looking ghetto AF these days. I don't care what people do to their own bodies as long as it's not strewn all over the city. I should be able to go to a park or beach without smelling second-hand crack smoke or seeing a junky passed out with a needle in their arm. FYI I feel the exact same about weed, alcohol, or anything else. If you're so out of it that someone else has to take care of you, then you're out of control.

There have to be boundaries between what is public and what is private. What next, people fucking in public? Because "they're not harming anybody, are they?" Fuck off. If people (especially children) shouldn't be exposed to public sex, then they shouldn't be exposed to people self-harming.

There's no evidence that this type of HR model works. BC and most of the west coast are off the grid. Like I said, Portugal's model worked. They put billions of dollars into HR services. They didn't just legalize drugs and call it a day. They had a super comprehensive public-pay drug recovery and prevention program ready to deploy. Here in BC, they decriminalized drugs and are just letting all the old + new addicts pass out in the streets so you have to step over them while going about your life. They're making it the community's problem when really it's the government's problem.

It sounds like you just see them as a burden and since they slightly annoy you by doing drugs in public, they should... what? Be thrown in jail? Given records? How would illegalizing drugs again help anything? I have never seen drug laws help anyone, all they have ever done is make things worse. I’m all for rehabs and stuff like that, but any sort of punishment is just wrong. Maybe, if people did some research, they’d figure out how to help the homeless people if their oding, it’s not hard to use narcan. I agree with you about people being apathetic, but the solution to that would be to care more about them. If they are passed about on the sidewalk, I say good, it forces other people to look at them and consider their lives Andy their problems. Society has cared too little about mentally ill people and drug addicts for too long. I don’t personally care if a 5 year old has too see junkies. If you don’t want to see others people say lives, stay inside your house.

as for the compassion thing, usually, when I talk about my issues, or see someone else talk about their mental issues, their usually completely invalidated, and seeing as most of those people are mentally ill that are homeless, I’d say their homelessness is caused by a lack of compassion for mentally ill drugmaddicts from society as a whole. If the stigma wasn’t there, the problem wouldn’t be as bad.

Maybe if you care so much, you should go outside and help some of those people yourself. You have two arms and two legs don’t you? You seem like you know how to spot an overdose, what’s stopping you? If your not going to lift a finger to help those people yourself, why complain about it? It sounds like you want the government to step in and sweep the problem back under the rug so that you don’t not have to look at it.

Also, you’ve made Canada sound like a nice place to live, and I have added it to my list of future places to visit. is there unlimited clean heroin? I read cocaine, what other drugs are they giving away?

 

[brokedownpalace10]

How is it my problem if I am not in a position to stop it?

Society's problem.

I can see you are hating what your neighborhood has become. Similar thing happened to me during Reagan's recession in America. Local car manufacturing plant went under and it's employees lost their homes, leaving the riff raff.
I had to move.

Wondering which came first in your case, the drugs or the homelessness. Doing drugs in public is doing them at home if you are homeless. I think I'd look for a temporary way out myself if I was homeless.

 

[Landrew]

A methed out guy stabbed a father to death at a sandwich shop a couple months ago right in front of his kids. Everyone just watched. Like I said... apathy.

Vancouver BC here, first I've heard of Inderdeep Singh Gosal being on meth, so I searched Inderdeep Singh Gosal meth and got nothing.

We got a lot of outright mind control here in Vancouver on this topic, led by Aaron Gunn. He has a new 'movie out I havent seen yet.

 

[Foreigner]

Vancouver BC here, first I've heard of Inderdeep Singh Gosal being on meth, so I searched Inderdeep Singh Gosal meth and got nothing.

We got a lot of outright mind control here in Vancouver on this topic, led by Aaron Gunn. He has a new 'movie out I havent seen yet.

Haven't seen it either. I'm tired of the lopsided representation in the media that tends to cut either way. You either get the bleeding heart lefty rhetoric about how all the poor, addicted homeless people are just victims who need a helping hand. Then you get the fear-mongering right-wing rhetoric that things the world is ending with every new policy intervention.

My comments are based on what I'm seeing with my own eyes and what my community is talking about. Vancouver is becoming ghetto. I was physically assaulted twice last year by strung out street people who were high. Those same people are still walking the streets. The "soft touch" approach in this province will be its undoing.

I think we should use all the tools: rehab, mental institutions, prison, shelters and walk-in centres, day programs, etc. When they closed Riverview in the lower mainland of BC, they didn't follow through on their promises of community care. They just put all the mentally ill people on buses and shipped them into downtown Vancouver. It's a travesty. People should be able to enjoy their city without inhaling second hand crack fumes or being accosted by high people.

 

[TheFrogEffect]

Naloxone and Good Samaritan provisions seem like good ideas but then we get to distributing meth bulbs and needles and it's like hol up... so now society is actively helping people use?

Why is it that perverse incentives proliferate whenever the government gets involved in anything?

Clean needles and dope pipes prevent disease from spreading from one person to another. Also, these are handed out in an exchange, not just given to someone who says they need it. At least that's my understanding of it. If you don't have one or more dirty/broken needes or a dirty and/or broken pipe to exchange for new ones, you don't get new ones. I'm not personally familiar with any sort of programs in my state that will just hand you free shit to go use drugs with if you can't already show that you're a drug user. And it's not like they just hand out drugs.

Not everyone has a dealer. I doubt any person would go looking for one just because they learned about a paraphernalia exchange. And even if it did get someone curious to go looking, there's no chance someone who isn't already addicted is going to just ask random people on the streets and try to cold cop a bag of meth unless they either fully grasp the dangers. Either that or they live under a rock and don't know how dangerous the drug game is for their freedom/life.

All that said, these exchange programs here in Seattle are not sponsored by the government. Technically, besides weed paraphernalia, all other drug para is illegal to sell or possess here. Until they strike that law, the government isn't going to fund or sponsor any of these programs in our state. They have laxed up a lot of things to accomodate the programs, sure. Here in Washington, they're finally starting to figure out that it mostly isn't the users or even street level dealers who are the problem.

But what actual harm are they causing anyone by dying in public or shooting up ona park bench? Sure, maybe you don’t want to see it, but maybe that’s your problem, maybe you should just learn to tolerate other people s lifestyles. Personally if I found someone passed out with a needle in their arm in public where I live, so long as they weren’t like oding or trying to rob me, I wouldn’t care, wouldn’t bother me one bit.

Why does it bother you?

I mean, technically, a dead body in public is a biohazard so there's that. But that said, it's not like it's standard practice to just leave decaying corpses around in public so that's kind of a moot point. I'm honestly fully on board with you, though. If someone doesn't wanna see it, they should not look and mind their own business. (Or, better idea: whether someone wants to see this kinda shit in public or not, they're going to, so maybe instead of being a dick, maybe they should go check and make sure the random junkies they see around are okay and leave 'em be if so, help out if not... Ahh, if only it were a perfect world.) If someone doesn't want their kid(s) to be influenced negatively by seeing junkies and tweakers and crackheads, then they should do their job as parents and educate their damn kid(s) properly.

And not to mention that homelessness at least to some (I guess quite big) extent increase drug abuse and vice versa.

When I was homeless for a couple years back between 2010 and 2012, and hanging out in homeless encampments for the last 3 years in a totally different state, I feel like the majority of people I met didn't even abuse drugs or alcohol until they became homeless. For most of them, it seemed like it was a "when in Rome" thing that came as a result of finding themselves a part of the homeless community.

Let me tell you though, you get to a point where you homelessness is a result of your own choices. It happened to me. It happened to every other homeless person I met. You struggle to adjust to struggling for so long until you wake up one day and suddenly you're not struggling to adapt. You've stopped struggling at all. Now, you're comfortable being uncomfortable. It's sort of like that institutionalization shit that happens to people who go to prison and sit for years or decades and then get out. Except it's more like Stockholm syndrome.

Eventually my friends' incessant demands that I stay under a roof and have a comfortable and secure place to live beat out my desire to stay on the streets.

 

[TheFrogEffect]

Vancouver BC here, first I've heard of Inderdeep Singh Gosal being on meth, so I searched Inderdeep Singh Gosal meth and got nothing.

We got a lot of outright mind control here in Vancouver on this topic, led by Aaron Gunn. He has a new 'movie out I havent seen yet.

Is this the same dude who did Seattle Is Dying? I watched that years ago and found a few points to be pretty solid but overall, if I remember correctly, it was a bunch of bullshit fear mongering and false information.

 

[xtcgrrrl]

I think you have to remember that the problem of drug use/abuse doesn’t occur in a vacuum. There are factors that contribute to addiction such as poverty, homelessness, mental illness, etc. These things have been increasing (more people living below the poverty line, more people living on the streets, greater numbers of people being diagnosed with mental illnesses, etc) and you have to ask yourself why. Drug addiction, I think, is a symptom of a greater problem that’s occurring. If we solve some of the other things I mentioned, I bet you the numbers of addicts would go down. And (I think) probably these things are all caused by the same thing: our society is in decline, our way of life is unsustainable. Both the left AND the right agree on that, even if they don’t agree on the cause or how to fix it. That’s part of why political debates online have gotten so heated: both sides of the spectrum can see it, and are worried about it. But one side thinks it’s because of climate change and corporate greed, whereas the other side thinks it’s…trans people and drag queens? Idk. I’m just guessing based on what I see people getting angry and worried about. But I would bet money on the fact that if we solved some of society’s problems, drug usage would go down. Solutions could look like better mental health care and coverage; putting laws in place so that corporations and the very wealthy pay their fair share of taxes; inventing energy solutions that won’t hurt the environment. I mean, I think they’ve just about got that fusion thing solved, right? That’s right around the corner, hopefully, and could help with the climate issue a lot! And I believe @Foreigner said in his complaint about legalizing drugs that not enough funds were going to solutions like mental health treatment. Well, I agree; I want all drugs to be legalized across the board, but I ALSO want there to be more funding for addiction treatments and mental health services. I do think drugs should be “at your own risk,” just legalize them, slap a warning label on them (like cigarettes,) have the FDA or whatever certify that they’re pure etc, maybe only sell them in doses low enough that you don’t die if you fucking follow the directions on the box, whatever. But the way society is right now, I bet we’d have a shitload of deaths if that happened, cuz I think loads of people just lowkey don’t really care what happens to them. And this is a society-wide problem, this anxiety and depression we’re all dealing with. Even if you have neither, look around you! How many people in your life DO? So yeah, it’s a problem.

But people who aren’t drug users/abusers don’t really care about how many of us die; to them, if we die, it’s like the trash taking itself out. So the problem of addiction is left to politicians to use for virtue signaling: “my opponent supports harm reduction which means they want everyone to be on drugs!” “The guy running against me has no empathy for the poor and downtrodden, vote for me so I can help them with Harm Reduction policies!” Etc etc. I think harm reduction has become a political gimmick, and I doubt that the general public has any idea of what it really entails. And even if you could convince them that it worked, I don’t think they’d go for it, because of what I said above: drug (ab)users are the dregs of society, and if we DID all die we’d be doing them a favor by not utilizing public services and thereby wasting the tax dollars of the hardworking people, etc etc.

But yeah, I think ultimately legalizing everything is the way to go. I believe in allowing people to have the freedom to make their own choices, even if they make BAD choices. We can make laws that restrict where you can use (like we did with smoking) and we already have laws against driving under the influence, etc. And if we: 1. Fix societal problems so people don’t feel so hopeless that they turn to drugs to escape 2. Establish social programs to assist people with addiction 3. Create laws to protect non-users and establish when and where use is appropriate (like we did with alcohol) then full legalization won’t be such a big deal. I still think some people will die because of it but once again, that’s probably because of making bad choices…and if someone is dumb enough or dead set on committing suicide via substances, it might actually be better that way? @Foreigner i was going to ask, doesn’t BC now have some kind of legal suicide thing going on? Cuz I kind of have to wonder if BC deliberately didn’t establish any addiction assistance when they decriminalized….just so that they could be rid of a population of people they detest? “They” being the elected officials…idk, just a thought

 

[Foreigner]

I think you have to remember that the problem of drug use/abuse doesn’t occur in a vacuum. There are factors that contribute to addiction such as poverty, homelessness, mental illness, etc. These things have been increasing (more people living below the poverty line, more people living on the streets, greater numbers of people being diagnosed with mental illnesses, etc) and you have to ask yourself why. Drug addiction, I think, is a symptom of a greater problem that’s occurring. If we solve some of the other things I mentioned, I bet you the numbers of addicts would go down. And (I think) probably these things are all caused by the same thing: our society is in decline, our way of life is unsustainable. Both the left AND the right agree on that, even if they don’t agree on the cause or how to fix it. That’s part of why political debates online have gotten so heated: both sides of the spectrum can see it, and are worried about it. But one side thinks it’s because of climate change and corporate greed, whereas the other side thinks it’s…trans people and drag queens? Idk. I’m just guessing based on what I see people getting angry and worried about. But I would bet money on the fact that if we solved some of society’s problems, drug usage would go down. Solutions could look like better mental health care and coverage; putting laws in place so that corporations and the very wealthy pay their fair share of taxes; inventing energy solutions that won’t hurt the environment. I mean, I think they’ve just about got that fusion thing solved, right? That’s right around the corner, hopefully, and could help with the climate issue a lot! And I believe @Foreigner said in his complaint about legalizing drugs that not enough funds were going to solutions like mental health treatment. Well, I agree; I want all drugs to be legalized across the board, but I ALSO want there to be more funding for addiction treatments and mental health services. I do think drugs should be “at your own risk,” just legalize them, slap a warning label on them (like cigarettes,) have the FDA or whatever certify that they’re pure etc, maybe only sell them in doses low enough that you don’t die if you fucking follow the directions on the box, whatever. But the way society is right now, I bet we’d have a shitload of deaths if that happened, cuz I think loads of people just lowkey don’t really care what happens to them. And this is a society-wide problem, this anxiety and depression we’re all dealing with. Even if you have neither, look around you! How many people in your life DO? So yeah, it’s a problem.

But people who aren’t drug users/abusers don’t really care about how many of us die; to them, if we die, it’s like the trash taking itself out. So the problem of addiction is left to politicians to use for virtue signaling: “my opponent supports harm reduction which means they want everyone to be on drugs!” “The guy running against me has no empathy for the poor and downtrodden, vote for me so I can help them with Harm Reduction policies!” Etc etc. I think harm reduction has become a political gimmick, and I doubt that the general public has any idea of what it really entails. And even if you could convince them that it worked, I don’t think they’d go for it, because of what I said above: drug (ab)users are the dregs of society, and if we DID all die we’d be doing them a favor by not utilizing public services and thereby wasting the tax dollars of the hardworking people, etc etc.

But yeah, I think ultimately legalizing everything is the way to go. I believe in allowing people to have the freedom to make their own choices, even if they make BAD choices. We can make laws that restrict where you can use (like we did with smoking) and we already have laws against driving under the influence, etc. And if we: 1. Fix societal problems so people don’t feel so hopeless that they turn to drugs to escape 2. Establish social programs to assist people with addiction 3. Create laws to protect non-users and establish when and where use is appropriate (like we did with alcohol) then full legalization won’t be such a big deal. I still think some people will die because of it but once again, that’s probably because of making bad choices…and if someone is dumb enough or dead set on committing suicide via substances, it might actually be better that way? @Foreigner i was going to ask, doesn’t BC now have some kind of legal suicide thing going on? Cuz I kind of have to wonder if BC deliberately didn’t establish any addiction assistance when they decriminalized….just so that they could be rid of a population of people they detest? “They” being the elected officials…idk, just a thought

You are right about social determinants which lead to addiction. Canada is becoming a violently inhospitable place and the rate of things like homelessness are skyrocketing. The government is doing nothing about the housing crisis, it's like they want people to just die.

I don't think drug addicts are trash. I do think people are responsible for how they affect others, when they do drugs. Increasing exposure of every day people to more harmful drug use is wrong. I am far below "high society" that looks down on drugs, but there is an argument to be made for not having to witness people with needles hanging out of their arms or people smoking crack at bus stops, especially the second hand smoke thing. I don't go to bars because I can't stand a drunk people. I don't like being around cigarette and pot smokers which is why I appreciate that they aren't allowed at beaches and parks in Vancouver.

There have to be boundaries around substance use. BC is becoming a free-for-all.

 

[Landrew]

Is this the same dude who did Seattle Is Dying? I watched that years ago and found a few points to be pretty solid but overall, if I remember correctly, it was a bunch of bullshit fear mongering and false information

Different people, but the similarity is title is deliberate, it is a 'shout out' to Seattle is Dying. I havent seen the Seattle one, but Im guessing the Vancouver one is more blatant with the lying scaremongering bootlicking bs- Its really over the top. [and lacks a few solid points] It comes from Canadian alt right "boot licking libertarian" royalty. I speak mostly of Angelo Isodorou here, but Aaron aint no slouch himself.

 

[Landrew]

Maybe you're that apathetic but I'm not.

I think it's immoral to decriminalize drugs and promote self harm out in the open while not funding the services that can end it.

what is your source on this issue of harm reduction being favored over treatment on the topic of funding? Aaron Gunn?..

 

[Foreigner]

what is your source on this issue of harm reduction being favored over treatment on the topic of funding? Aaron Gunn?..

I've worked in health care and have many friends and colleagues who work in the DTES. I know for a fact that the rehab waiting lists are years long because the entire health care system is underfunded.

Stop throwing dipshit insults at me when you don't know wtf you're talking about.

BC doesn't care about HR. They decriminalized drugs with no comprehensive care strategy going forward.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Dunno what’s going on in Canada but here in the USA, saying that there should be adequate mental health services is a nice thought but ultimately there just isn’t the political will to fund something like that. Most “mental health services” get administered through the prison system, unfortunately.

I agree that progressive reform re: drugs needs to be incorporated into a wider package of reforms including healthcare, housing, public works/ infrastructure/energy, the environment etc. otherwise people will just self destruct because they’ll lose hope and will numb themselves into oblivion. All that takes money, though, a serious investment of money that those in power (after becoming accustomed to 40+ years of neolib “public-private partnerships”…if the public is involved at all) are very much allergic to

 

[Landrew]

we went full fucking Gipper up here on the mental health, and whats left is so barbaric its proabbly good its underfunded. Shit that makes the silliest religious treatment centers look like pure genius and a paradise to stay in. The outpatient stuff is [usually] fine but if you need more look out! esp for psychiatrists..

Stop throwing dipshit insults at me when you don't know wtf you're talking about.

I may have said that anyway tbh, but it does pale as an insult to the one you layed out earlier in the thread, that stigma was not meant to save us cuz we are hopeless, we are rather mere props in your scare tactic. It was aimed at a specific member but transcends that target.

really is disturbing thing to say imo, esp combined with your bullish insistence that your bs is factual.

I met with a counselor today who has worked in Vancouver [DCHC / STEPS ], since last September, and four years in the Fraser Valley [Burnaby to Abbotsford] 4 years before that, Wait times are Generally a month or two all around for that period from her perspective.

Seems in line with the more general view laid out in this article, its a few years old but wipes the floor with your sources.

But, we called any and every possible addiction service hoping that one will have the answer we sought: A full-time rehab facility that could take our child right away and help her beat the addiction and put it behind her.

In total, we phoned over 150. Here's what we found:

Wait times fluctuate wildly
A day. A week. Seven to eight weeks. Six months. It varies. Timing is everything. People quit, spots come up.

Wait times can be as long as six months for the places in high demand, but many rehabs won't tell you that. They just say a bed is just coming up. The addict must call in every day and try to snag it. Mothers say that can translate into weeks, even months. A call and a failure every day.

This can be devastating as the window of opportunity is crucial — one mother lost her son during the waiting period, as she was denied Suboxone and rehab for him, despite calling every day.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/what-we-learned-phoning-every-drug-rehab-facility-in-british-columbia-1.3756425

Further reading on the topic of how much funding goes where

B.C.'s $1-billion boost for mental health and addictions misses the mark, say critics

The way the money is divided between treatment and harm reduction — and few details on how it will be distributed — is raising alarms bells.

vancouversun.com

 

[Foreigner]

I may have said that anyway tbh, but it does pale as an insult to the one you layed out earlier in the thread, that stigma was not meant to save us cuz we are hopeless, we are rather mere props in your scare tactic. It was aimed at a specific member but transcends that target.

Dude shut up. I didn't personally insult you, I stated my personal general opinion on a topic. If you felt personally insulted in the process, then that's not my problem. You, however, personally insulted me by making it seem like I'm a know-nothing ("Aaaron Gunn???"), and now you're doubling down on it.

really is disturbing thing to say imo, esp combined with your bullish insistence that your bs is factual.

Please quote where I said addicts are hopeless and beyond saving?

I am actually saying the exact fucking opposite, which is why I am angry about what the Province has done.

I met with a counselor today who has worked in Vancouver [DCHC / STEPS ], since last September, and four years in the Fraser Valley [Burnaby to Abbotsford] 4 years before that, Wait times are Generally a month or two all around for that period from her perspective.

I have a hard time believing that given everything I've been told from my health care colleagues.

Seems in line with the more general view laid out in this article, its a few years old but wipes the floor with your sources.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/what-we-learned-phoning-every-drug-rehab-facility-in-british-columbia-1.3756425

Further reading on the topic of how much funding goes where

B.C.'s $1-billion boost for mental health and addictions misses the mark, say critics

The way the money is divided between treatment and harm reduction — and few details on how it will be distributed — is raising alarms bells.

vancouversun.com

LMAO... news sources, and the worst ones.

I know frontline workers who work in the DTES right now who told me this week that their clients are on a 1 year waiting list for rehab. These are opiate addicts. You can get triaged to be seen sooner if you've OD'd, attempted suicide, or your life is somehow in imminent danger. Otherwise you'll be waiting a long ass time. And that's my point... the province has made drugs more accessible than ever, creating new addicts, but has put fuck all resources into shortening wait times.

I'm not going to compete with you about sources, it's not worth my time. I worked in health care and worked in the DTES and in an HR capacity. I still have ample connections there. Believe whatever it is you want to believe. I give zero fucks.