Mental Health doctor recommending opiates for anxiety/depression?

[teological]

Haha, Crook, I think you massively misunderstood where I was coming from. I did not mean to attack you or demean anything anyone else is taking...I apologize if I came across that way. Like I said before, I was just advocating for opiates to be used basically among first-line treatment, then if the persons life/symptoms don't get better or are still unmanageable, perhaps move on to the other psychotropics. Why do I say first-line? Because imagine someone like me, who responded extremely well to opiates, and found out through time that my drug psychosis was temporary, was put on benzos, SSRI and anti-psychotics straight away (like they were about to), I would be a different person and I never would have known if my illness was permanent or not...you get me?

Opiates DO NOT fix the symptoms like benzos do for anxiety, like anti-psychotics for psychosis/schizophrenia for your friend. You friend will still hear the voices, but feel great at the same time. This may not be bearable if the voices are crazy, loud and frequent...so if Respirodone gets rid of them, that is obviously the right medication. You, with bi-polar, will still have your symptoms, but feel great. So if you are having mania that still ruins your life and you drugs actually stop it, that is the right medication. But for some people, whose symptoms are bearable from day to day, but slowly wears them down, opiates can bring that needed mood lift. That is what it did for me, whilst still hearing voices and having anxiety. It made life peaceful and now my symptoms are way better through time and some life changes.

I think they would be excellent for depression and anxiety. Schizophrenia that is intense and permanently haunting the person with paranoia and delusions, no.

I do not have control as much as it may seem lol. It is out of necessity really. If my tolerance gets too large, I don't feel that good, need more, if I can't find any, I suffer the consequences, so I found that keeping a lower tolerance really lets you have your cake and eat it too. If I had an unlimited mountain made of opiates.....lol

Yeah, with cannabis, I did not mean like a bloody suicide cult, who also worship one person and believe that .000mg of water can also cure a broken hip...it just makes people under chemo eat more food, and the authorities still refuse it to be used under these circumstances, so how can we trust such people to really treat us with really what is best? Not just the best business model?

Fuck I have been typing too much, sorry dude. Sorry OP also, haha.

GL all.

 

[crOOk]

By the way, my friend is actually an avid user of tramadol, :D but his use throughout the past few years hasn't become an actual problem, which it doesn't for most tramadol users or at least not for as many as for actual opiate users.

 

[stoner13]

the only opioid that would make a good long term anti depressant is buprenorphine

 

[crOOk]

the only opioid that would make a good long term anti depressant is buprenorphine

Ya that's what I said initially, buprenorphin is a kappa antagonist and is researched for it's antidepressant effects for that very reason.

 

[queenbmichelle]

your intellect comes frm yr OWN experiences... our conversations would be quite r'eal feeling'
and
Let's put it this way - I never abused tetracycline. Anyone here know how to say Demerol is ten different languages? My knowledge of pharmaceuticals is vast. When everyone at university was reading James Joyce and Hemingway - I was curled up with the PDR. Back in those days they manufactured fun drugs: Methaquualune - Placidyl - Demerol Uni-dose and Multi vials (Green and Red label) from Winthrop Pharmaceuticals. And of course the Lilly gang: Tuinal (3 gr were best), Seconal, Darvon, and Nembutal (Marilyn Monroe's killer drug) and Amobarbital. The last two not made by Lilly. And to ameliorate the "sedating" effects of a few of the aforementioned, one could leaven things with Dexedrine and Biphethamine - kind of the Judy Garland/Montgomery Clift cocktail. And of course Eskatrol (also Lilly) Desoxsyn, Dexamyl -(I'm getting a buzz just writing this). It sounds so chic and exotic - and much of it was. But then of course, one crashes and burns. And or dies. You'll read my book shortly.

But on a serious note - if there is anyone out there suffering from this hideously insidious disease and needs advice or help to get clean or titrate some insane dose they are taking I will respond.

The user who talks about Tramadol 400 mg habit - quite honestly that is child's play for me. Try 4000 mg q.d. And this drug is still not a C2 in the U.S. There are political reasons for this. But that is a tangential subject.

I was reticent to post on this site but I now have read such a plethora of here say and misinformation that I felt it incumbent upon myself to post because my knowledge and experience may be of service to someone reading this. If I can help one person - just one - from going through the hell and agony of addiction- then I have helped my fellows. And this is why we are all here.

If I were to go into specificity about the substances I've taken it would blow anyone's mind. The fact that I can walk upright and conjugate full sentences in multiple languages is second to the building of the Great Pyramids in miracle order. So feel free to post and ask and if time and life permits I promise to respond.[/QUOTE]

 

[Acanthus]

Is this bipolar depression/anxiety we're talking of here? Then yes I have heard of some doctors using opiates.

Of course bipolar is unique in that it will not respond, and will actually be made worse (ie: mania) with many conventional anti-depressant therapies.

'Opioids may have an antidepressant effect in patients with affective disorders.1—3 Opioids have been used successfully to treat refractory depression in monotherapy and as an augmenting agent when added to antidepressant medication. Specific opioids suggested to have this property include the mu-opioid agonists oxycodone, oxymorphone, tramadol, codeine, and the partial agonist buprenorphine.4—7'

http://neuro.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=103202

Letter to the Editor, American Journal of Psychiatry on this topic:

http://www.opioids.com/antidepressant/opiate.html

This book is also informative:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Opiate-Cure-Bipolar-Spectrum/dp/1465391487

 

[Cliffy78]

Great post acanthus, thx for the links

 

[Acanthus]

^^ NP I was actually just randomly reading through the suboxforum.com on an unrelated issue and was surprised to find stories of people with unipolar depression indeed being subscribed buprenorphine in the US. So yeah it's 100% definitely being done. Pretty incredible. From personal experience I can attest to the fact that it *will* largely eliminate melancholy to the point of virtual apathy. The real question is whether the anti-depressant effect is worth the inevitable physiological dependence? It seems some more free-thinking doctors are saying 'yes' to that.

 

[crOOk]

^^ NP I was actually just randomly reading through the suboxforum.com on an unrelated issue and was surprised to find stories of people with unipolar depression indeed being subscribed buprenorphine in the US. So yeah it's 100% definitely being done. Pretty incredible. From personal experience I can attest to the fact that it *will* largely eliminate melancholy to the point of virtual apathy. The real question is whether the anti-depressant effect is worth the inevitable physiological dependence? It seems some more free-thinking doctors are saying 'yes' to that.

Like I said before, buprenorphine is a different story because it's a kappa antagonist which none of the other marketed opiates are afaik, at least not to a clinically significant degree.

Another problem is that they should really not be prescribed to people with a prior SUD, if there are any other options. I personally would not trust myself with a script.

 

[Rybee]

Really good thread OP, some interesting discussion.

Mycophyle, I apologize for any heavy-handedness of my anti-drug therapy bias. I admit that I have one, but that does not mean that I can not recognize that they are necessary at times and that for certain people they actually make life livable. I just think they are over-prescribed, prescribed (in America anyway) in a very cavalier manner, prescribed as a first attempt at treatment rather than after all non-drug therapies have been proven inadequate.

My bias has its roots in my own experience. I am horrified to see the wanton drugging of children and young people in my country under the name of psychiatric treatment. I do try to keep my own life as substance-free as possible in the same way that I try to eat the healthiest diet I can; but when a medication is needed I take it. I apologize again if I was sounding like no one should ever take a medication for anything--that is not what I believe.

Great post. I really do agree with all that you've said. The difference in attitudes towards 'Big Pharma' and scoring prescription drugs in the US is quite shocking, compared to that in England and the rest of the UK - I'm from London. I actually find it quite sad/upsetting really. It seems that if you have even a minor medical problem, whether that be a physical or mental impairment, you're sold a variety of magic pills as a solution instead of tackling the underlying problems - if that's possible, as it not always is. I'm not saying you shouldn't try medications from mental health problems, they can be absolutely fantastic tools in managing your symptoms for a whole variety of disorders. But sometimes, alternative therapies are more appropriate - focusing on improving your diet, exercising more, and working on relationships should always be the starting point.

Aged 10, little Bobby can't concentrate at school so instead of addressing the fact that he stays up late all night watching cartoons and playing on his Xbox, does no exercise, and eats processed junk food all week washed down with large amounts of Redbull, we overlook this and label him with ADHD and sell him Methylphenidate/Ritalin, Dextroamphetamine, Lisdexamfetamine and Atomoxetine/Stratter as a 'cure'. It's disgusting.

It seems that there's a drug for everything in the USA these days, when there are much better alternatives. We're very conservative on the prescribing of drugs in the UK, and rightly so in my opinion. Some of the things I read on BL from American posters is shocking frankly. Especially when it comes to kids being drugged to death, it's so upsetting to see.

In England, doctors prescribe you medications.
In America, doctors sell you drugs.

I probably have more knowledge and experience with opiates, amphetamines, barbiturates, soporifics, hallucinogens, benzos and the like than anyone I know. And I know a lot of medical and pharmaceutical people.

Let's put it this way - I never abused tetracycline. Anyone here know how to say Demerol is ten different languages? My knowledge of pharmaceuticals is vast. When everyone at university was reading James Joyce and Hemingway - I was curled up with the PDR. Back in those days they manufactured fun drugs: Methaquualune - Placidyl - Demerol Uni-dose and Multi vials (Green and Red label) from Winthrop Pharmaceuticals. And of course the Lilly gang: Tuinal (3 gr were best), Seconal, Darvon, and Nembutal (Marilyn Monroe's killer drug) and Amobarbital. The last two not made by Lilly. And to ameliorate the "sedating" effects of a few of the aforementioned, one could leaven things with Dexedrine and Biphethamine - kind of the Judy Garland/Montgomery Clift cocktail. And of course Eskatrol (also Lilly) Desoxsyn, Dexamyl -(I'm getting a buzz just writing this). It sounds so chic and exotic - and much of it was. But then of course, one crashes and burns. And or dies. You'll read my book shortly.

But on a serious note - if there is anyone out there suffering from this hideously insidious disease and needs advice or help to get clean or titrate some insane dose they are taking I will respond.

The user who talks about Tramadol 400 mg habit - quite honestly that is child's play for me. Try 4000 mg q.d. And this drug is still not a C2 in the U.S. There are political reasons for this. But that is a tangential subject.

I was reticent to post on this site but I now have read such a plethora of here say and misinformation that I felt it incumbent upon myself to post because my knowledge and experience may be of service to someone reading this. If I can help one person - just one - from going through the hell and agony of addiction- then I have helped my fellows. And this is why we are all here.

If I were to go into specificity about the substances I've taken it would blow anyone's mind. The fact that I can walk upright and conjugate full sentences in multiple languages is second to the building of the Great Pyramids in miracle order. So feel free to post and ask and if time and life permits I promise to respond.

I'm sorry but this is the most cringe-worthy post on BL I've ever read. Do yourself a favour and delete the post. Nobody on here is impressed by your response.

It's sad and pathetic and I'm sure I'm not the only one who thinks that. If you put as much effort into genuinely helping the OP than you did blowing your own dick, you'd be much more respected.

edit: Actually, I'm not sorry in the slightest.

 

[Rybee]

To OP, I suffer from (pretty bad) GAD and (now minor) MDD and take Tapentadol for my back pain (it's like a more potent version of Tramadol) and it really does help for my depression - I don't take any 'anti-depressants' any more. Though I don't take Tapentadol for my anxiety, as I find it can be a little too-stimulating and actually make me more anxious. I usually rotate on a weekly basis from Diazepam to Morphine/Oxycodone for my anxiety as both really do help to take the edge off. That said, I think I'm going to give CBT another try as I don't particularly like taking medication, hence why I dropped the SSRI's/Pregabalin/Gabapentin etc... quite some time a go.

Prescribing opiates is for anxiety/depression is a little... 'out there' and may raise some eyebrows, but I'd personally recommend at least trying it.