DOC: dosage vs duration

[kyt]

Just wondering if anyone particularly experienced with DOC has a good idea of the dose in relation to how long the trip lasts. There seems to be a wide range of durations spouted around and I presume it is largely to do with dosage.

If anyone has any first hand insights into this it would be great to hear them.

 

[FlawedByDesign]

IME the main effects of a 5mg oral dose(which is way too much for one's first time) lasts about 8 hours and are followed by at least another 8 hours of residual stimulation. The actual trip may be shorter on lower doses but the lingering stimulation is reduced by little if any. Keep in mind that this is my experience and everyone is affected differently, YMMV and all that. I always do my best to set aside two days as I rarely get any sleep the night of the trip.

 

[InterestingFACT]

In my experience on 2.2mg, the main visuals effects ran about 8 hours past dosing, but after that I wasn't exactly "baseline" for a while. I would say schedule your next sleep at least 12 hours post dose, unless you've got a sedative to knock you out.

So while I'm sure that dosage plays a role in the drug's duration (ie. taking 10mg might make you trip for a very long time), you can't really get past the idea that the drug itself has a very long effect.

This is conjectural BS but.. d-amphetamine has a half-life of ~8 hours or so, if I remember correctly. I don't think DOC's pharmacokinetics have ever been studied, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that it has a similar half-life (then again, there's a good chance it doesn't). In any case, LSD by comparison is very rapidly metabolized with a half-life of 175 minutes. Yes, LSD's effects last longer than this, but this is probably because LSD is activating some signaling chain which continues even after LSD leaves the body.

When you consider that difference, it's no surprise that DOC is going to have a longer duration. I think it would be fairly unreasonable to hope that you can make it last any shorter than that 8 hour mark.

 

[Xorkoth]

IME the main effects of a 5mg oral dose(which is way too much for one's first time) lasts about 8 hours and are followed by at least another 8 hours of residual stimulation. The actual trip may be shorter on lower doses but the lingering stimulation is reduced by little if any. Keep in mind that this is my experience and everyone is affected differently, YMMV and all that. I always do my best to set aside two days as I rarely get any sleep the night of the trip.

This is a very low estimate for me, though we're all different. For me, even a 1mg dose of DOC lasts for a good 12 hours, while a 3-3.5mg dose (my favorite without tolerance) peaks for around 8 hours and then switches to the plateau stage which will last another 12-16 hours, though at the end I can sleep if I choose. When I have increased the dosage, the duration slowly creeps up. I took 4.2mg once, I think my 4th time, with no significant tolerance, and it lasted 24 hours total.

Also, for me, the lingering stimulation is one of my favorite parts of the substance, it makes me feel optimized and amazing, like psychedelic Adderall, so I count it as part of the trip. Some people dislike the residual stimulation so they don't count it.

 

[FlawedByDesign]

I was recently surprised by how unpredictable the duration can be. As stated above I usually trip for ~8 hours when taken orally yet insufflating my last dose resulted in a strongly visual experience lasting from 2pm to 10am the following morning. I was caught off guard to say the least as insufflation has become my favorite RoA due to its significantly shorter duration. The warping/melting finally stopped around 10am leaving me 4 hours to "rest" before going to work.

 

[Xorkoth]

Wow, crazy... I've actually only ever taken DOC orally. Maybe sometime I'll try insufflation when I won't have to function for a while afterwards. How much did you decrease the dosage from your typical oral dosage?

 

[Axed]

Regardless of dosage (I've taken from ~2.5 to 7mg), I usually can't sleep until 18-20 hours after oral ingestion.

 

[phuckingnutz]

I tried DOC my first time 18 hours ago and am still a little stimulated.
My dose was 2mg and ROA was oral...this is my new favorite drug.

 

[Xorkoth]

Hell yeah man. I had some yesterday and had a wonderful experience. 3mg, I worked through some anxieties at the beginning and was rewarded with a warm, loving trip where I felt so amazing the whole time. Years ago, I thought of DOC as standing for Drug Of Choice. :D

 

[MundaneDivinity]

Planning for a minimum of 18 hours before sleep is a wise choice. I find that sometime around the 8th hour I start thinking that my peak is over, but changing my environment at this time frequently leads me to the recognition that I am still considerably intoxicated (more than I thought) because the mind seems to have habituated itself to the altered consciousness and take it as closer to baseline even though you are still considerably farther out there for a couple more hours before the real decline begins.

If you're not opposed to using benzodiazepines or etizolam and/or small amount of alcohol, moderate doses will probably allow for sleep around the 12 hour mark. Otherwise, I agree: aim for 18 hours of wakefulness as a an absolute minimum unless you are a pro at going to sleep on psychedelics.

 

[Shee-un]

In any case, LSD by comparison is very rapidly metabolized with a half-life of 175 minutes. Yes, LSD's effects last longer than this, but this is probably because LSD is activating some signaling chain which continues even after LSD leaves the body.

You are wrong. You are experiencing effects because molecules of LSD are still attached to the receptors, even at 10-hour mark. In fact, the half-life of LSD in body is 5.1 hours. And LSD is difficult to metabolize, it has a very rigid structure

 

[Xorkoth]

I used about .75mg yesterday at 2pm and fell asleep by 12... I wasent tired and took a suppliment called power to sleep. I woke up kinda feeling burnt but It had valerian root and it always does that to me. I wanted to take a 3mg dose today but might save it for a day I wake up and already feel like a million bucks

I also took 1mg etizolam during the trip and MXE

I find MXE to combine so nicely with DOC. And yeah I'd save the 3mg trip for a little while, you don't want to start developing too much tolerance. Tripping multiple days in a row or multiple times a week is okay periodically, for special occasions (festival, camping, etc), but trust me, it's easy to get yourself into a pattern of frequent use and doing so will start to develop a tolerance that may never go away. I tripped multiple times a week for a couple of years, 2006-2008, and I still have a mega tolerance to all serotonergic psychedelics compared to most everyone I know.

 

[MundaneDivinity]

I used about .75mg yesterday at 2pm and fell asleep by 12... I wasent tired and took a suppliment called power to sleep. I woke up kinda feeling burnt but It had valerian root and it always does that to me. I wanted to take a 3mg dose today but might save it for a day I wake up and already feel like a million bucks

I also took 1mg etizolam during the trip and MXE

I just want to point out that in my experience, therapeutic doses of etizolam do not seem sufficient to mitigate bad trip anxiety during peak effects of moderate-to-strong doses of DOC.

During a trial with ~4.8mg of DOC I was experiencing some negative thoughts, strong anxiety, and heavy body load around the three or four hour mark and decided to try to calm myself with 2mg of etizolam (usually enough to put me to sleep in under 30 minutes). My mood did not improve; instead, negative thoughts persisted while I felt myself begin to spin wildly out of control, similar to how one would feel having combined alcohol and etizolam but while also under the effects of a "bad trip." In my opinion, one of the benefits of DOC is the clarity of its headspace and I have found it unwise to muddy that effect during the peak of the experience with diazepine drugs.

On the other hand, I have found moderate doses of kratom (as a non-dependent user) dosed concurrently with DOC to potentiate positive body load and promote a general sense of well-being and contentment without reducing psychedelia (psychedelic speedball anyone?). The underlying theme here is that DOC is a powerful psychedelic that is not easily aborted with commonly available "downers."

I find MXE to combine so nicely with DOC.

And oh yes, MXE to finish off a DOC trip is an absolutely wonderful way to visit the mind-movie multiplex! However, don't take this as an endorsement of a DOC + MXE + kratom combination. Caution is advised when mixing dissociatives (MXE) and opioids (kratom).

 

[Xorkoth]

I agree, DOC is super powerful and is not easily aborted. I've never been able to abort it actually, with benzos or any strength of opiate (never taken an antipsychotic so can't comment). I also agree that kratom (or opiates in general) mix really well with it. They do muddy it slightly (kratom barely at all though), but it remains the same more or less, with less bodyload. However, on DOC at 3/3.5mg or less, I usually get a wonderful body feeling, even nearly orgasmic at times, except sometimes on the come-up it can be a bit weird.

 

[Darkstorn]

My two cents:

10mg didn't really last longer than 1mg: The difference is more obviously in intensity. The more you take, the more fucked up things get... For a longer period of time.

I once got a panic attack under a bit too much 25i-nbome(the first time i've ever gotten a panic attack, so it was unnerving I recovered on my own. I got the exact same feeling with 10mg of DOC: With fucked up differences. At such a dose my feeling was so dissociative that i felt my own senses as impersonal: I felt i was having a panic attack and was becoming crazy, and that reality was simply a dream. At the same time: I was actually just observing this about 10 meters away from my actual position as if i was a different person altogether. This effect lasted for... 8 hours versus maybe 30 seconds in 25i-nbome. At the time it seemed more funny than anything else too.

(i can't recommend such doses. Seriously. But it was funny)

Overall however it lasted the pretty typical 8-12 hours for the main effects, then maybe 12 for the aftereffects. I was obviously way too stimulated to sleep at hour 24 though compared to lower doses.

Strangely: I more recently noticed a massive curve in dose/duration with 2C-E. To the point that 70mg of it to me felt strongly after 24 hours... It lasted much longer than that stupid dose of DOC. And with even more intensity.

(methinks, there's a point at DOC when the psychedelic effects are already like over 9000 on the shulgin scale and after that you should probably take other stuff to achieve a similar effect without feeling as physically molested for as long a time. I'd say that point is 4 milligrams.)

 

[kingme]

havent read all replies but answering the OP question.
for me, doses <2mg all last under 12 hours, and doses 2-4mg last well over 15, but under 20. When i say last i specifically mean "able to sleep without help"... some people might be more sensitive to this, while others may not feel like sleeping after the experience and continue to notice slight changes in perception.

also, i have yet to go much higher than 4mg so might not be the best yardstick...

 

[kyt]

havent read all replies but answering the OP question.
for me, doses <2mg all last under 12 hours, and doses 2-4mg last well over 15, but under 20. When i say last i specifically mean "able to sleep without help"... some people might be more sensitive to this, while others may not feel like sleeping after the experience and continue to notice slight changes in perception.

also, i have yet to go much higher than 4mg so might not be the best yardstick...

That's very informative and exactly the kind of response I was hoping for.

Thanks.

The rest of the discussion has also been most insightful.

 

[Darkstorn]

Are you sure you have real doc? I took 12mg by accident and was messed up for literally 2 days... scarey at the time but the next day was awesome... And 1mg lasted about 6-8 hours while 2.2-2.5 lasted about 10 with residual stimulation... I think starting low is very, very important here. Seriousley

Yeah, it was real. At least it read "DOC, 1,7mg" on each blotter and it tasted exactly like it. Thing is, i kind of knew it was going to be "terrible" subjectively to take 10mg but i chose not to care: Smaller doses work just fine enough so i can't really say why i was thinking like that. I ended up fine but i chose to never do DOC again. It wasn't really scary but it was the kind of experience you should only experience once... Or never.

Never is probably right. Don't do 10mg kids. Actually you guys probably shouldn't take more than 5. Or maybe 3mg. In hindsight 10mg+ is really retarded.

 

[Xorkoth]

I'm gonna take DOC tomorrow and go see Phish

 

[Darkstorn]

If you have real doc even 3mg is strong and 5 is for veteran hippies.. just my experience that blotters aren't always on point and usually buying it raw in bulk is better but we all metabolize stuff different so I don't know

I know. I've done DOC many times: Usually just two of those 1,7mg blotters. They've been around here for several years now. Actually i think it's all the same stock, from the same vendor. It's not very popular when it says "DOC" right on the blotter. No use advertising it as anything else and most people either dislike DOC or simply haven't heard of it and thus it scares them. I can tell you it's mindbogglingly cheap.

That being said: I know the difference between 1, 2, 3 and 6 blotters of those things. And yes even one is comparable to an above normal dose of acid in many ways.

So i really did take 10mg of DOC: Slightly more in fact because i took 6. I took them on purpose, knowing full well what it was. I wasn't accidentally poisoned by a substance i have no experience with. And i am certain they were accurately measured.

That being said: 10mg of DOC is not the most intensive psychedelic experience i've experienced, although it is close. I'd like to say 100mg of 2C-E is far more intensive.

I'm gonna take DOC tomorrow and go see Phish

Bastard!

Although: I noticed with DOC my sense of recording quality increases to the point that my normal musical choices(psychedelic / space / progressive rock) no longer sound as appealing. I like... Trance and crap with DOC even though i normally hate it. Damn.