Do you think there was a spiritual component to Hunter S. Thompson's Suicide?

[JapaneseGardenWind]

ANON-> Second Opinion -> Psycedelic Drugs -> Philosophy and Spirituality -> MAPS harm reduction


So there if you get into watching a lot of documentaries and interviews with people who knew him and whatnot, he provided the flip-side, (some may argue the more realistic one), to the righteous, pious, we're all one facade of the counter-culture.

In other words, Hunter clearly followed the whole path, from vodka, to speed, to acid, to DMT, to mescaline, to typewriters, to AOL, but was very archaic and relatable with his content.

I think with Hunter specifically, it takes a lot to really dig deep and catch all the nuisances to his art. I think his interviews are almost more poignant art-pieces than his books at times.


But on to the meat and potatoes. Do you think that his suicide had spiritual meaning? A sort of deranged take on reincarnation and spirituality. That his mission was to kill himself. The chaos in the destruction was his purpose. Keeping control, seeking oblivion, was his designed way of fitting into the universe.


So can suicide be spiritual?

 

[PotatoMan]

Suicide can be spiritual. You don't have to be depressed to do it IMO. Sometimes the curiosity of death can grow large and existence on earth can seem pointless. That's how I feel sometimes.

Anonymous ----> P&S

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Nope. HST was depressed, and majorly burnt out from decades of drug use/addiction, just dabbled with psychedelics despite what was claimed in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" which is a work of fiction and satire of the late 60s and politics of the time it was published. He was also in a lot of physical pain.

No I do not think that suicide is a spiritual thing. It's a very selfish thing though.

 

[ForEverAfter]

^Yep. HST was an absolute wreck, throughout most of his life.
He's not a role-model for the drug world. He was a very sad, confused man.
In all the documentary footage I've seen of him, he looks like he's having a mental breakdown.
I felt really sorry for him the more I got to know him, and I wasn't surprised when he killed himself.
The worst parts of my life, I was heading in that direction: isolated; drowning in drugs; hating the world.
I think HST was a classic self-destructive junky; he chose drugs over life.
From what I can gather, his existence was pretty tragic.
I don't think he ever grew up.
He died strung out and alone.

I do not think that suicide is a spiritual thing.

I agree.

It's a very selfish thing though.

I disagree. It can be selfish.
But, why do you think HST's suicide was selfish?
He didn't have any kids, or anything.
And, he was in pain.

“Hunter kept saying, 'For God’s sake, stop your filthy scribbling.’ It was the first time I realised that a drawing could be an offensive personal comment.

“After a while this woman came over and looked at this drawing I’d just done of her. I must admit it was quite an ugly drawing, and she got very upset.

“She just kept saying, 'But I’m prettier than that.’” The woman, it transpired, was the wife of one of the club’s most distinguished members. “Hunter said, 'Look what you’ve done. We’ve got to get out of here.’” What Thompson did next astonished Steadman. “He took a can of Mace out of his doctor’s bag and started spraying it around. It’s just like tear gas, that stuff. Soon everyone was coughing and spluttering trying to find the door.” At the end of a week, Steadman flew back to England convinced they would never work together again. The assignment, it appeared, had been a disaster – so much so that Thompson didn’t even bother to write the piece, but simply sent in his notebooks instead.

...

“I did feel a bit threatened sometimes. Hunter had this myna bird called Edward which he kept in a cage. He’d often bang on the side of the cage and tell Edward he was going to kill him. After a while I rather identified with Edward.” Slowly Thompson fell apart. Drugs, booze, illness and age all took their toll. “I remember him telling me that he felt trapped in this life and that he dreaded being in an old people’s home. He said that he had this vision of this old crone crawling across the floor towards him about to fondle his balls. I did become increasingly concerned. I had this feeling something might happen, that he might take his own life.”

In February 2005, Steadman got a phone call in the middle of the night telling him that Thompson had shot himself. “I can’t say that I was surprised..."

He was funny (HST) - the myna bird and the mace made me chuckle - but he was also (by all accounts) a very unpleasant person... and, he suffered from severe depression for most of his life.

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...-thought-Hunter-S-Thompson-didnt-like-me.html)

 

[Xorkoth]

Nope. HST was depressed, and majorly burnt out from decades of drug use/addiction, just dabbled with psychedelics despite what was claimed in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" which is a work of fiction and satire of the late 60s and politics of the time it was published. He was also in a lot of physical pain.

No I do not think that suicide is a spiritual thing. It's a very selfish thing though.

I read a documentary book (called Gonzo: https://play.google.com/store/books...US&gclid=CMHJruqU98YCFUJtgQodFdwD9Q&gclsrc=ds) written after his death composed entirely of people who worked with him or were close with him... a lot from his wives too. His use of all drugs including psychedelics was described quite vividly. While Fear and Loathing was basically a work of fiction, the dude was definitely intense about his use of psychedelics as well as other drugs... unless everyone in the book was lying.

Regardless, I agree he was not a role model for drug users. He was a fascinating guy who produced a lot of great work, but his drug use patterns are something no one should aspire to, and, in my opinion, are probably largely responsible for his destruction. His friends seemed to think so.

 

[snazzy_sn]

You'll be hard pressed to find anyone here that can associate suicide with spirituality.
I don't know much about HST.
The fact that there isn't a whole thread about this though kinda just proves that everyone on this website is like a catholic or something. Regardless of his habits.

XPilyBL

All suicide is spiritual.
Maybe I should do more research on the subject though, before I start being a trollish type dick.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

I think suicide is many things. Of course motive varies--from deep depression to drug-induced psychosis to extreme curiosity to overdosing without intent.

I've never felt suicidal so it's hard for me to say exactly what it is.

However, I believe David Foster Wallace, a genius of a man whom committed suicide, gave some real insight into how it feels: he likened it, in an emotional sense, to hanging from a burning building; on the one hand there is extremely painful fire and burning things if one climbs into the building; on the other, there is falling to one's death. He also painted a very vivid picture of someone spending all of their time in their basement strenuously building model trains, every second being excruciating, for decades. Also, in Infinite Jest, perhaps as an incarnation of what the modern world figuratively does to the advanced mind, Hal's father killed himself by cutting a hole in a microwave, putting his head in, and turning it on. There is no doubt that I can't describe it nearly so well as DFW did, but I believe I was given at least some insight into how caustic and unbearable suicidality feels. And of course DFW would go on to commit suicide in 2007 I believe.

Suicidal thinking is a very basic emotion, from what I understand. There's very rarely something so sophisticated as a dogma attached to it--I guess you could argue that Jim Jones and his followers may have done it spiritually. But the idea you're describing is something reminiscent as just another fun-filled trip. That's not something I would ascribe to blowing one's head off. I get the impression too, as someone above seemed to say, that he was just burnt out. It almost sounds like, from what he left reminiscent of a suicide note, that his wild way of life caught up with him, and that he was so attached to living free and wild that he couldn't not live that way, but at the same time he was forced to because of his age.

He was in physical pain, coupled with what may have been seasonal affective disorder or blatant depression.

From what I read, I concur, as to my point of view, that he let his problems fester without meaningfully trying to fix them.

He was just stuck in living in a past way in a past age, but at the same time he was forced not to because of his age and because the world had matured.

I would think that very few people view suicide as spiritual. It's not my go-to for thinking of how people rationalize it. And from reading a little about HST, it doesn't sound like that was the case at all. Suicide is a nihilist thing--something which people do because they won't grow to find their own idea of what makes them happy/what they believe in is best.

Someone above said that he chose drugs over life. That's a really powerful insight. A surprising amount of smart people with real potential fall into that trap. Drugs trick our imperfect brains into thinking that they are "the answer". This can definitely lead to nihilism.

 

[noone1]

Absolutely not Thompson was an entrenched hardcore atheist by the time he died. Didn't you read "fear and loathing" He absolutely hated those like Tim Leary selling "consciousness expansion"

Thompson was a libertarian who wanted to be left alone to do drugs, drink copious amounts of alcohol, write his books, shoot off his guns and raise peacocks out in the wilderness.

Word has it that he was always suicidal and was always talking about it from the earliest days. You can read his letters from his late 20's/early 30's he wanted to write a magnum opus and go out in a glory of hedonism. He was horrified constantly that he just kept living.

 

[RichardMooner]

^Yep. HST was an absolute wreck, throughout most of his life.
He's not a role-model for the drug world. He was a very sad, confused man.
In all the documentary footage I've seen of him, he looks like he's having a mental breakdown.
I felt really sorry for him the more I got to know him, and I wasn't surprised when he killed himself.
The worst parts of my life, I was heading in that direction: isolated; drowning in drugs; hating the world.
I think HST was a classic self-destructive junky; he chose drugs over life.
From what I can gather, his existence was pretty tragic.
I don't think he ever grew up.
He died strung out and alone.



I agree.



I disagree. It can be selfish.
But, why do you think HST's suicide was selfish?
He didn't have any kids, or anything.
And, he was in pain.



He was funny (HST) - the myna bird and the mace made me chuckle - but he was also (by all accounts) a very unpleasant person... and, he suffered from severe depression for most of his life.

(http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...-thought-Hunter-S-Thompson-didnt-like-me.html)

His son and grandchild were in the other room when he blew his head off. He did have kids.

 

[RichardMooner]

Thompson offed himself because he was depressed, couldn't write much, and lost hope in the world after W. was elected for the second time.

 

[ForEverAfter]

His son and grandchild were in the other room when he blew his head off. He did have kids.

Wow, that's fucked up.
Okay, then... Maybe his suicide was selfish.
(He could have done it in a less traumatic way.)
But, like you said, he was depressed.
Is depression selfish?

 

[RichardMooner]

Wow, that's fucked up.
Okay, then... Maybe his suicide was selfish.
(He could have done it in a less traumatic way.)
But, like you said, he was depressed.
Is depression selfish?

Certainly not, I don't believe so anyway.

I think it can cause one to do selfish things, but I don't believe it's inherently selfish.

 

[ForEverAfter]

I think it can cause one to do selfish things, but I don't believe it's inherently selfish.

What I meant, was: if depression is the motivation for a seemingly selfish act, is it - actually - selfish?
I struggle to wrap my head around the idea of suicide being selfish, since it is the destruction of the self.

Thompson offed himself because he was depressed, couldn't write much, and lost hope in the world after W. was elected for the second time.

Agreed. (He took U.S. politics WAY too seriously.)

 

[SKL]

ITT: Glamorizing suicide and a few good posts.

Glamorizing suicide as some sort of spiritual or intellectual pursuit, q.v. HST or DFW, is a dead end, just like the act itself -- the ultimate embrace of nihilism. That is a recurrent trope in art, but in life? I'd hope not. It is, as they say, "a permanent solution to a temporary problem," a definitive act, but one which originates in a state more pitied to be envied. Teleologically speaking it is from an incredibly shallow perspective empowering in a certain sense but ultimately it is a solipsistic act -- the world is all suffering, so I had ought to end my perception of it. What could be more selfish, more limited, more short sighted, less "enlightened?"

HST was a sufferer of mental illness, in clinical terms, like many of us, and did a shitton of drugs, he was just more articulate, that doesn't make him more justified in his actions anymore than Lou Reed ought to be glorified for shooting dope, basically this:

Nope. HST was depressed, and majorly burnt out from decades of drug use/addiction, just dabbled with psychedelics despite what was claimed in "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas" which is a work of fiction and satire of the late 60s and politics of the time it was published. He was also in a lot of physical pain.

No I do not think that suicide is a spiritual thing. It's a very selfish thing though.

 

[RichardMooner]

What I meant, was: if depression is the motivation for a seemingly selfish act, is it - actually - selfish?
I struggle to wrap my head around the idea of suicide being selfish, since it is the destruction of the self.



Agreed. (He took U.S. politics WAY too seriously.)

I don't think it is selfish. I think it's selfish to blame those who commit suicide, actually.

I think it's pretty fucked up to blow your head off in front of your kid and grandchild, though.

And don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Hunter S. Thompson's work, but he was a complete asshole.

 

[ForEverAfter]

don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of Hunter S. Thompson's work, but he was a complete asshole.

Yep.

he was also (by all accounts) a very unpleasant person

...

I don't think it is selfish. I think it's selfish to blame those who commit suicide, actually.

Indeed. They must be in enough pain - whether it be spiritual, physical or psychological - in the first place, to be even considering suicide. People pile guilt on top of that, forcing them to remain in pain... Most people shouldn't kill themselves, I think, even if they want to, unless they have incurable conditions that render their lives hellish. Otherwise (for the spiritually and psychologically pained), there is help available. But, unfortunately, they aren't always able to reach out. Thinking about Hunter makes me sad. But, he is a good example of how not to live your life.

 

[Barrenian]

No, I think he was just insane and had probably gone beyond the pale years before having commited suicide. Of course it is selfish, but I don't think that makes it a bad thing. If you are so disillusioned with life, and have some chronic health problem that makes life hell, I won't judge you. What is more selfish, people who want to keep you around even though you are miserable and have exhausted all treatment options, or wanting to end it because there isn't any hope left? Of course I don't condone suicide for trivial bullshit like breaking up with your girlfriend or things like that, but only in extreme cases. As for it being spiritual, maybe. If you believe in an afterlife you may be feeling very spiritual right before you commit the act

 

[snazzy_sn]

Sorry their solution is probably better than yours I'm always just like....

Wow, really? SUICIDE is SELFISH??
Like holy shit are fucking serious?
Don't talk to me, go talk to some other fucktard that can't think of/doesn't want to consider any other possible reasons someone would kill themselves like super duper intelligence or super fucking depression.

I'm sorry you're stupid, but godamn...
Just... Just die.



fucking loser would be prima donnas.;]

-Please avoid this sort of post snazzy_sn. Check the guidelines next time- willow11

 

[swilow]

None of that here please snazzy.

 

[snazzy_sn]

My mistake.

I really get frustrated when people say things like that. I've heard so many people say that suicide is selfish.

Someone was going through something so intense that they took that route.
Saying that suicide is selfish totally undermines and takes away not only from the act but the reason someone felt that was the way to go.

I apologize for being disrespectful though. Thx.