Misc Do tricyclic antidepressants cause physical dependence and punishing withdrawal syndromes the way that SSRIs and SNRIs do?

[queenscarlet88]

Hi Bluelighters,

I've been a member of this forum for something like 15 years now. Was gone for many years, lost in a black pit of THC. They say you can't get addicted to THC, but at my levels of consumption (5,000-10,000mg per day of delta-8 THC), I put myself into a catastrophic depression, making it difficult to eat, sleep, or live. As a result of my delta-8 THC addiction I am having to declare bankruptcy. Yes, I went into crippling levels of debt to purchase synthetic marijuana gummies. So all of this combines to create a bleak state of existence.

I found myself only able to sleep about an hour and a half per night. Then a doctor prescribed 10mg of Doxepin nightly. It's an off-patent, well-established drug that no doctor had ever recommended to me before. And it actually works! I take it at night and I feel a noticeable lifting of my spirits the next day. The obsessive, self-destructive thoughts are banished and I can think clearly. A little irritable at first but I'm adjusting to the medicine and that side effect is fading. I combine the doxepin with 25mg hydroxyzine. The hydroxyzine is the knock-out pill while the doxepin has noticeably improved my ability to fall back asleep when I wake up in the night. I got ten hours of deep, restorative sleep last night. Woke up several times but luxuriated in my bed and fell effortlessly right back to sleep. It feels as though I'm sleeping like a normal person for the first time in many years!

So I guess it just feels too good to be true and I want to make sure I'm not screwing myself over in the future. Do tricyclic antidepressants such as doxepin cause physical dependence and punishing withdrawal syndromes the way that SSRIs and SNRIs do?

 

[ninjapirateroberts]

I'm surprised that you were able to use high doses of THC for that long. Personally, for me, I feel like THC makes me dumb. It significantly fucks up with my cognition and learning abilities; I literally failed courses at uni when I used to smoke THC (I got hooked for like a month). And not to mention the hangover for at least a week or longer when I use a high dose of THC (hangover got longer if used continuously). I had to man the fuck up and throw away THC vapes in the garbage and get my shit together (I felt depressed, especially because I couldn't learn jack shit; it literally made me "dumb").

 

[brokedownpalace10]

Seems like it's less of an issue but still can be a thing. Your dose seems pretty low, so that's a big plus. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

I hated Elavil when I took it and I stopped a nightly Elavil without experiencing anything but feeling better. Maybe some rebound insomnia, nothing more.


"Withdrawal symptoms generally begin within hours to days of dose reduction, depending on the characteristics of the particular drug.7 Withdrawing selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs) and serotonin noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors (SNRIs) tends to cause flu-like symptoms, nausea, lethargy, dizziness, ataxia, ‘electric shock’ sensations, anxiety, irritability, insomnia and vivid dreams. The symptoms can be extremely disabling for some patients.Venlafaxine is associated with the most severe withdrawal effects. Paroxetine is also troublesome while fluoxetine rarely causes withdrawal symptoms (especially if the dose is under 40 mg) due to the long half-life of the parent drug and its active metabolite (about 7 days). Withdrawal of tricyclic antidepressants can cause nausea, headache, abdominal pain, diarrhoea, lethargy, anxiety, insomnia and vivid dreams. It is unlikely that withdrawal symptoms will occur after cessation of low-dose tricyclics used in pain treatment. Withdrawing irreversible monoamine oxidase inhibitors such as tranylcypromine is particularly troublesome. It often causes agitation, irritability, mood disorders, dreams, cognitive impairment and occasionally psychosis and delirium."

https://www.nps.org.au/assets/0fefd33bbd1e4b37-b47b5bbf1ec4-6327a07f9228ef1e76f5e49dc4dbb31e126b24b5459b4248437fb3eb823f.pdf

 

[SpiralusSancti]

So I guess it just feels too good to be true and I want to make sure I'm not screwing myself over in the future. Do tricyclic antidepressants such as doxepin cause physical dependence and punishing withdrawal syndromes the way that SSRIs and SNRIs do?

Did you previously experienced really bad WD’s from SSRI-s and SNRI-s? If you did you might with tricyclics too. Thing is (in big part) neither SSRI-s, SNRI-s or tricyclics cause real WD’s especially if you tapper down your dose. What most people experience is actually rebound depression/anxiety along with slight WD’s and therefore it can seem like it’s all just WD but rarely is. This is a complex topic on which much can be said. If those meds had a lot less side-effects many people would be better of just staying on those, but sadly that isn’t true at all and (most) people sooner or later start getting often so strong side-effect they defeat original purpose and help they got from those meds.

THC addiction is also a complex issue and not researches nearly enough. In cases like yours, reaching such a high doses it’s generally sort of self-medication (isn’t it always?) that got out of control. I used to be a huge stoner and I feel a lot better now when I smoke like 100 times less, both in amount and frequency.

 

[plumbus-nine]

10mg of doxepin are a very tiny dosage if it's no typo (usually it's 75-150mg according to Google) and shouldn't lead to much dependency though. But tricyclic antidepressants have a serotonin reuptake compound much like SSRIs and will lead to the same problematics if dosed adequately.

 

[Dreamflyer]

Oh man, I wish I knew. Back in February 2004 I went off of my SSRI Celexa cold-turkey, and my withdrawal symptoms were still getting worse when I finally went back on in July.

Mood swings like never before, panic attacks, insomnia or nightmares/night terrors, no appetite, etc.

Of all the drugs that I've been addicted to (including things like Oxy and crack), my antidepressant scares me the most. I've heard that you can take a razorblade and literally shave a sliver off of it every day until you're down to nothing. It takes like 6 months, but it apparently works.

Peace, Love & Faith,
Dreamflyer

PS - I've never taken a tricyclic, but I take a tetracyclic called Remeron that basically saved my live. I would never take an MAOI though. I've heard of too many people having serious reactions to them.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Oh man, I wish I knew. Back in February 2004 I went off of my SSRI Celexa cold-turkey, and my withdrawal symptoms were still getting worse when I finally went back on in July.

Mood swings like never before, panic attacks, insomnia or nightmares/night terrors, no appetite, etc.

Of all the drugs that I've been addicted to (including things like Oxy and crack), my antidepressant scares me the most. I've heard that you can take a razorblade and literally shave a sliver off of it every day until you're down to nothing. It takes like 6 months, but it apparently works.

Oh yeah, the short acting (half life <1 day) have a horrible withdrawal syndrome, I was hooked on venlafaxine for many years because I just couldn't quit and bear the withdrawal. Felt like a strong opioid withdrawal, including diarrhea, cold sweats, restlessness, insomnia, no energy, etc... But there are some things which help. Last time I quit I switched to fluoxetine (half life >1 week after some time when it inhibits CYP2D6) and tapered that down. Still got some symptoms but maybe 10% of the turkey variant.

Other tool is the herb kanna, it's a SSRI itself but causes less dependence. Once I quit venlafaxine with kanna but kind of relapsed because I got depressed again. In retrospection I think it was rebound depression and I should have tapered the kanna.

I too thought of antidepressants (S/NRI at least but tricyclics will be similar because they too have a S/NRI component) as among the worst drugs to be dependent on. I quit buprenorphine and morphine easier than the venlafaxine but switching really works.

 

[Dreamflyer]

I think that the MAOI Parnate is what killed my uncle (an awesome dude). He went off of it but then drank wine about a week later, and it apparently wasn't out of of his system yet. He went into malignant hyperthermia and his brain swelled up.