Do some people not feel "loved up"?

[Amygdala]

I heard oxytocin, not vasopressin -- although I've heard the two are interrelated. What's the final word on that? >_O

It's oxytocin, but it's only a hypothesis which is that MDMA's unique (compared to amphetamines) empathogenic effects are caused by oxytocin. This is because MDMA has been shown to cause increased plasma oxytocin in humans and it correlated with pro-social effects (note: what happens in the blood may be different from the brain!), and in the brains of rats. This is put together with recent (in the last 10 years) research showing that oxytocin is involved in such pro-social behaviors like pair bonding, social recognition, empathy and trust. There is still nothing to say that MDMA's pro-social effects are defiantly caused by oxytocin in humans, but this is pretty good evidence so far.

There isn't much scientific interest (to my knowledge) on whether or not something might be happening to vasopressin to get the pro-social effects. But we do know that it's elevated peripherally after MDMA use It probably causes the nasty hyponatremia (too much water, not enough salt) side effect of too much MDMA. Most are interested in oxytocin rather than vasopressin.

Vasopressin is indeed related to oxytocin. They have similar structures, and at higher concentrations, can affect each other's receptors. They are both released from the same location (posterior pituitary) and made in the same place. They are both involved in social cognition, exactly what role depends on the animal. Vasopressin is probably more commonly known as anti diuretic hormone.

 

[llyando]

Sounds like this guy has the same mindset I have. When last I rolled I was just chill walking around town, and the hanging out with my friend. With her I wasn't all huggy and all that stuff, but I still had a great time.

Instead of talking about the possible things that may or may not have been in the drug, why not ask your friend why he was like that and if that is how he has rolled before. His experience is exactly how mine are when ever i've rolled. He might not have seemed outwardly "loved up" but I would posit that he was still rolling balls and having a great time.

 

[AylaV]

It's oxytocin, but it's only a hypothesis which is that MDMA's unique (compared to amphetamines) empathogenic effects are caused by oxytocin. This is because MDMA has been shown to cause increased plasma oxytocin in humans and it correlated with pro-social effects (note: what happens in the blood may be different from the brain!), and in the brains of rats. This is put together with recent (in the last 10 years) research showing that oxytocin is involved in such pro-social behaviors like pair bonding, social recognition, empathy and trust. There is still nothing to say that MDMA's pro-social effects are defiantly caused by oxytocin in humans, but this is pretty good evidence so far.

There isn't much scientific interest (to my knowledge) on whether or not something might be happening to vasopressin to get the pro-social effects. But we do know that it's elevated peripherally after MDMA use It probably causes the nasty hyponatremia (too much water, not enough salt) side effect of too much MDMA. Most are interested in oxytocin rather than vasopressin.

Vasopressin is indeed related to oxytocin. They have similar structures, and at higher concentrations, can affect each other's receptors. They are both released from the same location (posterior pituitary) and made in the same place. They are both involved in social cognition, exactly what role depends on the animal. Vasopressin is probably more commonly known as anti diuretic hormone.

This was the exact concise, informed answer I was looking for =) Thankyou!! I didn't know that oxytocin in the brain hadn't been proven yet, however it should be noted that oxytocin is noted for relieving symptoms of autism (high AND low functioning) and MDMA has been effective for helping me with that as well. I even mentioned the correlation in my college thesis on medical uses of MDMA and argument for dropping it to Schedule III in the USA.

 

[CaliFortunate]

i don't really got lovey at all. i just feel amazing.

 

[dayman]

It's oxytocin, but it's only a hypothesis which is that MDMA's unique (compared to amphetamines) empathogenic effects are caused by oxytocin. This is because MDMA has been shown to cause increased plasma oxytocin in humans and it correlated with pro-social effects (note: what happens in the blood may be different from the brain!), and in the brains of rats. This is put together with recent (in the last 10 years) research showing that oxytocin is involved in such pro-social behaviors like pair bonding, social recognition, empathy and trust. There is still nothing to say that MDMA's pro-social effects are defiantly caused by oxytocin in humans, but this is pretty good evidence so far.

Vasopressin, is, in fact, also implicated in several studies to be associated with many pro-social behaviors as well. For example, a study with voles recently showed that an increase in vasopressin receptors is correlated with the formation of stronger pair-bonds in male voles; the ones with few receptors would have multiple mates throughout their lifespan, where the ones with many receptors would have only one. And, as you said, and increase in plasma levels of both vasopressin and oxytocin have been found to be potentially correlated with recent MDMA ingestion.

 

[its.euphoric]

just look up oxytocin and vasopressin on wikipedia. From what I've read it seems that it's mainly oxytocin. Oxytocin is extremely powerful in social bonding. They did a study in animals and blocked the release of the hormone of parents, and they actually abandoned their own offspring.
Vasopressin might have something to do with the loving effects, but I think it's mainly oxytocin. Oxytocin gives you the desire to socialize.. and dopamine gives you the motivation and pleasure from socializing.

 

[its.euphoric]

Maybe he is one of those people who try to act like they aren't affected by the drug because there "too cool" or whatever. But then again maybe he was just enjoying the euphoria and didn't feel the need to talk to people.

I think you're right actually... because later that night we were talking about different drugs and he said how he didn't like alcohol because he got "too happy" (wtf how can you be too happy??) on it, and that he'd only got drunk once.
My conclusion was that he really does like the effects of alcohol, but he is always afraid of not being his cool self, and doesn't want anyone to think of his as immature or silly...

So the same thing applied to the mdma because he just wanted to seem like he was cool. Since when you're drunk you lose your inhibitions without even thinking about it, but mdma, you still have control and can maintain looking "cool".

sad now that I think about it... I've known him for so long, but he def has changed. Tries to act cool all the time. I remember we were both so goofy and silly when we were younger. I feel like I don't even know the real him anymore... =(

 

[xocatastrophe]

sometimes I can't get all "loved up" but its because I'm focusing too much on how I should be feeling "loved up" haha. it's a vicious cycle.

 

[exarkann]

perhaps when he is "too happy" he feels out of control of himself. i know that i generally have a cap on how much i "loosen up" when i get intoxicated on anything (i really don't like embarrassing myself), and sometimes that means i appear to be aloof or not having a good time, even if i am.

 

[purplefirefly]

sometimes I can't get all "loved up" but its because I'm focusing too much on how I should be feeling "loved up" haha. it's a vicious cycle.

I think this is a very true statement. People are a lot more in control of their experiences than they think they are sometimes.

If you are constantly thinking "I should be higher, this sucks, I'm not at high as I want to be" then you are going to bring yourself down.

The best case scenario is not to worry about what don't have and actually enjoy what you do have.

 

[Aphex747]

i know what you mean.. but I don't think that was him. He was still talking, but he just acted normal.
Because I saw many people like that at the rave. That sit there motionless with their eyes wide open, not saying a word just sucking on their pacifiers. it's kinda creepy, but it's kinda cool knowing you're with someone who's feeling amazing.

Kids sucking on pacifiers is one of the worst parts of the rave scene. Seriosuly, why not bring your security blanket and all your teddy bears, i mean wtf.. Dance, hangout, but please don't make me feel like im partying with a bunch of sad kids who ran away from hom and still want there mommy and daddy to tuck them in at night. I'll be glad when Kandykids grow out of it, and feel very sorry for them if they dont, or can't.

 

[purplefirefly]

I never understood people who are overly judgemental of others while on mdma.

People talk to much, people look weird, they suck on binkies, they cuddle in puddles, they wear weird clothes....etc

I think that's sad, what's wrong with people doing what feels right? If sucking on a binky makes you feel good then do it, if cuddling in a blanket feels good then do it, if you want to run around your house naked as a newborn then go right ahead.

If your biggest issue in life is someone else is sucking on a binky then consider yourself lucky, there are far worse problems to have.

Just my $.02

 

[its.euphoric]

I never understood people who are overly judgemental of others while on mdma.

People talk to much, people look weird, they suck on binkies, they cuddle in puddles, they wear weird clothes....etc

I think that's sad, what's wrong with people doing what feels right? If sucking on a binky makes you feel good then do it, if cuddling in a blanket feels good then do it, if you want to run around your house naked as a newborn then go right ahead.

If your biggest issue in life is someone else is sucking on a binky then consider yourself lucky, there are far worse problems to have.

Just my $.02

omg I was totally just thinking that... yeah I mean, what's the big deal what they do? I think it's cool someone being different or not something you see everyday. To me it's interesting and I enjoy it when people do weird things, it's all part of the free feeling that drugs can give. And I think it makes those that may not be on drugs to not feel so awkward about looking stupid.

Live and let live.. besides aren't raves suppose to be about accepting others no matter what. You should accept and love them.

And.. isn't kandi kids part of the whole thing like ecstasy makes you feel like a kid again so you wear all your fun colorful kid stuff?

 

[Aphex747]

Theres nothing wrong with being different, until it is disturbing to other people. Then theres something called commom courtesy, and repsect. I would love to be nude at Raves, I feel free that way. But I do not, because of laws, and because also, Id feel bad if I offended someone or took away from their experience, because i want to be so "Different and accepted no matter what". And besides, theres nothing different at all about sucking on a beanky. Its an old fad that alot of in the rave scene wish would just go away, trust me. Your being laughed at from those of us in the crowd, even tho were not going to be rude about it. Maybe ill bring a blow up doll top the next rave. Oh wait a minute, no I wouldn't because I have common sense and respect for people around me. Which is something those selfish "kandi kids" could learn a thing or two about.

 

[AylaV]

Theres nothing wrong with being different, until it is disturbing to other people. Then theres something called commom courtesy, and repsect. I would love to be nude at Raves, I feel free that way. But I do not, because of laws, and because also, Id feel bad if I offended someone or took away from their experience, because i want to be so "Different and accepted no matter what". And besides, theres nothing different at all about sucking on a beanky. Its an old fad that alot of in the rave scene wish would just go away, trust me. Your being laughed at from those of us in the crowd, even tho were not going to be rude about it. Maybe ill bring a blow up doll top the next rave. Oh wait a minute, no I wouldn't because I have common sense and respect for people around me. Which is something those selfish "kandi kids" could learn a thing or two about.

I completely respect your opinion, but raves are about freedom of expression. It's not your job to decide what they will or won't do. If you're disturbed, that's your own deal. No need to be upset with what others do. I'd be completely okay with you being nude at a rave. Back in the day, that was even acceptable. I understand that you're laughing at all the kids who use binkies. I never really found them terribly useful, personally. You're welcome to laugh and many people do. The nice part about a rave, though, is you can do that and the people that are sucking on their binkies can go right on sucking =) The kandi kids respect your opinion and don't agree with it and you can respect ours and not agree with it. We're all in the same culture in the end for better or worse, so why not try and have fun with it?

I'd love the blow-up doll, btw. That sounds hardcore awesome You should bring a blow up sheep. That would be badass as fuck

 

[its.euphoric]

ok.. going nude you took it too far. When I said accepted no matter what I mean, like how you express yourself... be it what you do or wear.

Going nude, that would just be disturbing. I just don't like seeing naked people, it's just gross to me unless you're attractive or something. But even then, just no. But how you dress or if you do or don't suck on a binky shouldn't bother anyone. I mean it's not like seeing someone with a binky or a crazy outfit makes you flinch or look away in disgust...

Let people be who they are wear what they want, dance how they want, that's what's so great about a rave, it's loving and accepting. And as long as your blow up doll didn't get in the way of anything I don't see what's wrong with it.

 

[AylaV]

and a binky is disturbing to Aphex, its.euphoric. It makes him / her look away in disgust. It's all perception and interpretation. =) I personally have nothing against naked people -- attractive, ugly, etc. I have pics of me at Defcon XIII running around topless. It was badass.

 

[lujoyalin]

No love for me, but really want to play with people, and on a dance floor you just cannot because you get stepped on.

 

[its.euphoric]

I know, but still, I mean if every little thing bothered someone then everyone would be wearing the same thing... There is always gonna be something that will get someone mad but you can't adjust yourself just because of one person. And I know people can become okay with nudity, and I'm sure if everyone didn't wear clothes everyday I would be fine with it.

But as a society, it's just no. People will do crazy thing and express themselves in weird ways, and that's totally fine, but really, nudity is too far to me.

 

[naughtie]

I never understood people who are overly judgemental of others while on mdma.

People talk to much, people look weird, they suck on binkies, they cuddle in puddles, they wear weird clothes....etc

I think that's sad, what's wrong with people doing what feels right? If sucking on a binky makes you feel good then do it, if cuddling in a blanket feels good then do it, if you want to run around your house naked as a newborn then go right ahead.

If your biggest issue in life is someone else is sucking on a binky then consider yourself lucky, there are far worse problems to have.

Just my $.02

Agreed. MDMA is a drug which allows people to be themselves without all the inhibitions and labels that life puts upon them and it allows others who are rolling with them to be accepting of this. As long as no one is hurting others or themselves then live and let live. These are 2 things I love about rolling the most. Non-judgement and acceptance. Ok this 38 year old's rant is over now LOL