Do Not Take 25i -Cardiac Arrest

[PhilipLethman]

Hey Guys,

I just wanted to share something bad that happened to a friend of mine who was 16 when this happened to him. I will call him Paul for anon purposes. Paul was a depressed boy who
was overloaded with homework and was having huge friendship problems. Paul is feeling very sad on a Thursday and wasn't thinking properly. He decided to take 5 hits of what he thought
was acid that he had a stock of (He had taken 2 hits of it at once before.) Paul locked his door so his parents wouldn't enter. During the Peak Paul had a panic attack and Paul had
heart problems he wasn't aware of at the time. Paul started screaming as he starts feeling huge pain to his heart as he was tripping. His parents come to the door of his room but can't unlock
it. Paul falls to the ground and has a Cardiac arrest. His dad broke down the door and luckily for Paul was a professional doctor and managed to revive his dieing son. Weather or not this
was directly related to the 25i I just wanted to let you know what can potentially happen. Paul later discovered it was 25i by testing his other stock of it. Be very careful as although the
effects can come across as similar they are very different and if you feel a metallic taste before ingesting what you think is LSD, think twice before swallowing your saliva. One tab may not be
dangerous, but people have died from only 3 tabs in the past. In the UK, you are very likely to be given 25i from your dealer under the name of LSD. Be very careful with what you are taking.

Safe.

Mod edit: A big lesson from this is to make sure you are using reagent tests or another test method on anything you buy. You can get an "LSD testing multipack" for under £15 in the UK and it can immediately distinguish LSD from NBOMe (25I) compounds

 

[Solipsis]

Actually the saliva you'd swallow would become mostly inactivated while the drug that isn't swallowed is active, not the other way around.

Sorry to hear about your friend. No, NBOMe compounds are not all that forgiving, especially when certain medical conditions are involved. Even without a condition, jumping to 5 hits can be quite unsafe depending on how potent they are... but often they are not weak, probably because it's not expensive and distributors can afford to try and give their hits a lot of oomph in the hope that customers return.

Be careful, in some scenes and regions prevalence of NBOMe blotter is exceptionally high. If you don't have a network that holds high quality standards for real LSD, it's probably not safe to just assume you are getting real LSD. Scenes that have no tolerance for anything other than actual LSD usually can afford to because of good availability of LSD, they may be considered rare exceptions.

 

[pupnik]

25i is definitely active when swallowed
I experimented with this on myself - I do not recommend using 25i or any of it's family nbome, nboh etc.

it is a fallacy that it will be deactivated upon swallowing.
(from personal experience)

 

[Incunabula]

25i is definitely active when swallowed
I experimented with this on myself - I do not recommend using 25i or any of it's family nbome, nboh etc.

it is a fallacy that it will be deactivated upon swallowing.
(from personal experience)

I don't think it's that simple. There's a reason people started using it sublingual/insufflated.,

 

[pupnik]

yes, the rumor that stomach acid deactivated it.
but it worked every time I swallowed it.

the sensible tactic of swallowing blotters in case it is nbome is not sensible at all.

 

[psy997]

I thought it'd become common knowledge that the stomach thing isn't true as well. I've swallowed immediately before and had what felt to be full effects, as have others I've known.

 

[Clocktower]

Yeah, I've seen no convincing evidence that NBOMe's are less active when swallowed.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

yes, the rumor that stomach acid deactivated it.
but it worked every time I swallowed it.

the sensible tactic of swallowing blotters in case it is nbome is not sensible at all.

Me too, when I had NBOMe tabs I compared sublingual versus immediate ingestion and found the intensity and even the onset to be identical

 

[pupnik]

It really was a myth, I think Nichols had something to do with starting the myth, but it went too far.
lots of people thing immunization is bad too, you can't make them think it through. oh well.

 

[Solipsis]

If it's active for you when swallowed then it's probably from some enzyme deficiency or polymorphism, because this was studied experimentally in subjects (first animal then human), and not only was the very strong first-pass elimination observed and confirmed, they concluded that it had to do with high affinity for certain liver enzymes that 5-demethoxylate them because they are apparently so lipophilic. They could tell by tracking blood levels of the drug and certain metabolites, some radiolabeled to check which methoxy was cleaved.
Another explanation for your response is that it depends on certain absorption kinetics and that it's not impossible for some of the intact NBOMe to reach the brain. But it's not just a rumor or myth as you say. Responses have varied: some get effects from swallowing NBOMe compounds and others much less so or not at all. We have an explanation for the inactivation, just not yet a confirmed explanation for the variance.
(source = presented research findings at Stichting Open Psychedelics Conference reading)

 

[psy997]

It really was a myth, I think Nichols had something to do with starting the myth, but it went too far.
lots of people thing immunization is bad too, you can't make them think it through. oh well.

Just for reference, the anti-immunization crowd is not about immunization's themselves being bad, but the fact that thimerosal and mercury, both used as preservatives in vaccines and various other shots, are toxic to the human body and can cause strong negative reactions.

 

[pupnik]

... But it's not just a rumor or myth as you say. Responses have varied: some get effects from swallowing NBOMe compounds and others much less so or not at all. We have an explanation for the inactivation, just not yet a confirmed explanation for the variance.
(source = presented research findings at Stichting Open Psychedelics Conference reading)

I would be interested in the experimental documentation, very interested in how the tests were conducted and how the results were assayed.

 

[pupnik]

Just for reference, the anti-immunization crowd is not about immunization's themselves being bad, but the fact that thimerosal and mercury, both used as preservatives in vaccines and various other shots, are toxic to the human body and can cause strong negative reactions.

if mercury were used it would be only at extremely very low concentrations during processing.
these concentrations are way lower than what we used to get with dental amalgam - right in our mouths, at macro quantities.

also as children (more than 55 years ago) we used to play with mercury for hours, it was amazing to watch break up into tiny balls and re-congeal into a liquid mass, I remember playing with it several times until it just disappeared in some cracks around the house after bringing it home from the dentist.

So Yeah it is not a great thing, it could cause serious derangement etc. but not at any concentrations which might be in vaccines,
and the likely harm to the children if not taken is way beyond the threat the micro-dose exposures present.

It is not a realistic fear to deny your children immunization, the whole thing was exposed as a hoax.
check out wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Wakefield

Andrew Jeremy Wakefield (born c. 1957) is a British former gastroenterologist and medical researcher, known for his fraudulent 1998 research paper in support of the now-discredited claim that there was a link between the administration of the measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) vaccine, and the appearance of autism and bowel disease.

 

[psynce of sound]

I wish to second Solipsis' post on the metabolism of oral nbomes. It is very much established scientifically that they're made inactive via oral ROA. As stated those with enzyme deficiency or mutations can likely use this route and it work for them. For most though it doesn't work hence people swallowing them in case of nbomes.
I've swallowed a few tabs of 25i in ignorance of this at the time and got zero effects. Also 25c after knowing this, it was on sugar cubes so it was inadvertently swallowed due to the volume of saliva of sugar in my mouth. Again zero effects.
All in all I urge anyone to avoid nbomes entirely, they can be too unpredictable and very dangerous.
Stay safe folks.

Psynce.

 

[kidklmx]

Thirding the oral inactivity of 25i-NBOMe, didn't work for me and my friends! Maybe a different substitution works orally (maybe..), but 25i didn't

 

[Solipsis]

I would be interested in the experimental documentation, very interested in how the tests were conducted and how the results were assayed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmuuS4gxOVc

 

[Incunabula]

yes, the rumor that stomach acid deactivated it.

No, it was because people weren't getting any effects oral. Go back and have a look at the beginnings of the 25C-NBOMe thread from 2010, they are still there. Seriously, when 25C became available in 2010, almost nothing was known about them, except the theoretical very high affinity for 5HT2a that was found in vitro and described in some papers.

How should Nichols have known if they were or were not orally active? He, and Heim and others, were making them to map the serotonin receptor, not to get people high.

The research Solipsis is talking about is pretty new, so how should Nichols have known, if not because some one had had made an in vivo assay. But of cause, it does seem to be orally active with some people though, but it wouldn't be the first time drugs had different effects depending on individual body chemistry and stuff.....

 

[pupnik]

thanks for the link - I am not getting the kind of info I am looking for from it, but looks like they did some good brain scans, the part I am interested in is probably near the beginning of the video, but I didn't read the charts that well, not sure what they are doing with regard to testing the various administration routes. - was using the captions, will try headphones later.
I get the sense that they are expecting an enzymatic modification of nbome in the stomach but not sure about their assays of this happening.

 

[Limpet_Chicken]

*urinates on Wakefield*

Gods, that guy was a cunt. Last I heard he buggered off to the states to hook up with that vile autism squeaks crowd so he could continue peddling his toxic brand of misleading and vile curebie sewage.

He needs to beg for my autistic arse ring to shit on him and fucking call it chocolate ice cream.

 

[Solipsis]

thanks for the link - I am not getting the kind of info I am looking for from it, but looks like they did some good brain scans, the part I am interested in is probably near the beginning of the video, but I didn't read the charts that well, not sure what they are doing with regard to testing the various administration routes. - was using the captions, will try headphones later.
I get the sense that they are expecting an enzymatic modification of nbome in the stomach but not sure about their assays of this happening.

They tracked the methoxies by radiolabeling and the results show that it's the IIRC 5-methoxy (or 2?) and not the NBOMe group, nor part of it, that is getting cleaved off very rapidly by these enzymes for which they apparently have high affinity. I was skeptical about all this at first since it came as a surprise - it was not intuitive since normal 2C-X do not have this same affinity for the enzymes but they do have the very same 5-methoxy. I guess they just aren't lipophilic enough for all this to be an issue. The solution, sort of, is to either choose one of the least lipophilic ones like 25CN-NBOH if you want to dose orally, or perhaps make a hemiFLY derivative that protects the 5-methoxy by constraining it in a ring. However, the question is whether this solves anything, because if they still have high enzymatic affinity it's possible they will just lop off a 2-methoxy, although I have no idea what the odds are of that happening.

And yeah ^ as if parents who don't get their kids vaccinated out of religious ideas wasn't bad enough. But we're getting sidetracked.