Do Most Long-Term Psychedelic/ Empathogen Users End Up On Meds Or Anti-Psychotics?

[Doldrugs]

psychedelics can trigger schizophrenia and similar disorders in predisposed individuals.

This is a common belief, but I'm wondering if you have actual sources. The science seems to back this up for cannabis, but I don't think I've ever seen credible proof of what you're saying. There's logic to it, and I think it's wise to be cautious and proceed as though it's true for the time being. I'm guilty of furthering the meme myself. But it's already been pointed out that the current science coming out now seems to indicate that psychedelic use is actually much better for mental health than previously believed.

 

[Trying2Iso]

This is a common belief, but I'm wondering if you have actual sources. The science seems to back this up for cannabis, but I don't think I've ever seen credible proof of what you're saying. There's logic to it, and I think it's wise to be cautious and proceed as though it's true for the time being. I'm guilty of furthering the meme myself. But it's already been pointed out that the current science coming out now seems to indicate that psychedelic use is actually much better for mental health than previously believed.

Well psychedelics can cause HPPD so there's that. That's definitely a mental disorder.
HPPD is in the DSM 292.89 code

 

[Doldrugs]

It's not very well understood, not associated with every psychedelic, rare, and frequently harmless.

It seems like you're nitpicking instead of actually addressing my points. HPPD is a long, long way from schizophrenia.

 

[Trying2Iso]

It's not very well understood, not associated with every psychedelic, rare, and frequently harmless.

It seems like you're nitpicking instead of actually addressing my points. HPPD is a long, long way from schizophrenia.

And HPPD isn't bad enough? It's great to solve one problem, not so great when doing that creates another.

 

[Doldrugs]

My point was that "psychedelics trigger mental illness" is without a good source. Instead of agreeing or disagreeing you seem to be changing the subject (also called the red herring).

HPPD is rare. All drugs have side effects. Most commonly used drugs that are considered safe have worse side effects than HPPD that are less rare. Are you honestly saying severe depression, anxiety, or body dysmorphia are better than HPPD? I guarantee LSD would be one if the safest drugs in the world if it were clinically used (along with preexisting tools) to treat disorders like that.

 

[Kl519]

It's one of those things where there is some evidence for and against psychedelics triggering mental disorders. Some studies say it's inconclusive, others say that it does and also others say it merely increases the onset of a latent mental illness.

If anything, caution should be taken, including those with a family history of mental illness.

The classic psychedelics are on Schedule 1, with a lot of synthetic alternatives similarly banned from research, so we're not going to find many conclusive answers about them. Some of them are well studied, in a way, but not completely. An example is right here. There's still a lot more concrete information that hasn't been found yet.

Oh the drama.

 

[Doldrugs]

Can you link to studies saying psychedelics can trigger mental illness?

 

[Kl519]

Ugh, my phone isn't letting me post any links.

But just use Google Scholar and type in your query. You will find several there, for and against it, mind you.

I specifically used lsd as my query though.

 

[Trying2Iso]

Ugh, my phone isn't letting me post any links.

But just use Google Scholar and type in your query. You will find several there, for and against it, mind you.

I specifically used lsd as my query though.

also this:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3096346/
people who initiate SSRI treatment are at greater risk for LSD flashback symptoms (HPPD)
"there is a documented phenomenon of Hallucinogen Persisting Perception Disorder (HPPD), in which individuals have “flashbacks” years after cessation of LSD use. The research regarding HPPD has been limited, due in part to varying definitions of the term “flashbacks” (4). One proposed etiology of this disorder is that LSD causes a destruction of inhibitory interneurons that are seroto-nergic at the soma and GABAergic at the terminals (5,6). This hypothesis is supported by the partial responsiveness of HPPD to treatment with GABA agonists such as benzodiazepines. "
"There are several possible explanations for our patient's reaction to the initiation of SSRI therapy. One is that his previous exposure to LSD resulted in the destruction of inhibitory serotonergic interneurons. Perhaps these interneurons have an inhibitory effect on 5HT2 receptors in LSD-naïve patients, blunting potential hallucinogenic effects mediated by these receptors. In our patient, this inhibition may have been absent, so that the sudden increase in 5HT produced by initial SSRI therapy would lead to hallucinogenic experiences.
Another explanation is that our patient's serotonin receptors remained in a state of permanent up-regulation following his previous LSD use. As a result, an acute surge of synaptic serotonin, as can be seen with the initiation of SSRI treatment, would result in a highly enhanced sertotonin signal (9), which might lead to hallucinogenic effects."
This is significant because many people with mental illness are treated with SSRIs. They are even becoming common as an add-on medication to conventional schizophrenic meds as well.

 

[soulmedicin]

I believe that tramatic bad trips can give you PTSD. Very hard to deal with issues that can't just magically go away. The best thing for these people in my mind is to lay off all drugs and seek a spiritually inclined therapist.

 

[rave_itsrealfun!!!]

Well I would be cautious with how frequently to take psychedelics... for myself once a season was always ok (for a decade). I've also been careful to attribute anything at all to the experiences... I just trip in the moment and get on with life. People seem to get caught up interpreting highly subjective experiences too much and even trying to promote these experiences to others as some sort of medicine, attempting to project their own well thought out interpretation of their experience onto others. I see the experience as a very personal thing, I'd never make it a part of the image as I see people do, or promote psychedelic use to others, and there isn't really any explaining what's going on in my own mind on psychedelics to others so I generally keep it to myself.

I hear people say things like "I studied mathematics physics, but then I did LSD. Now I am studying neuroscience"... like WTF sorry but I have no idea how LSD affected you, whether or not it actually had an impact on your life or whether you're just saying that to sound cool. Why did you even have to bring up LSD in the first place? Sorry, "but then I did LSD" does not carry any useful information. I find it annoying how people feel the need to "brag" about it sometimes... I'm sure you've met people like this too, where acid seems to inflate their egos.

That being said, I would personally choose to use a hefty dose of psychedelics once per week as opposed to habitual cannabis use, any amount of cannabis at all on a daily basis because I strongly feel that the damage excessive weed smoking can do to the brain is significantly underestimated. I have experienced extreme anxiety and full blown panic disorder as a direct result of hash oil abuse. I also experienced one month of physical withdrawal and years of post acute withdrawal syndrome. Therefore, I'm sure it does this to the odd human out there as well since I can't be the only one who got completely fucked with by weed... I even fiended it like a crackhead, I'd smoke a big bong rip and 10 minutes later I would crave another... that's sure as hell doesn't make any sense but I couldn't stop without getting help.

To be honest I think a lot of people who abuse the hell out of weed end up on anxiety meds / antipsychotics / opiates after years of fiending and abuse, due to how cannabis causes deformations in key brain structures leading to horrible side effects and also because it can prime the brain for addiction to other "rewarding" drugs but then again this is all just my opinion. Another thing to take into consideration is that weed will turn its back on cannabis addicts, all of a sudden many of them are simply unable to enjoy weed anymore despite being addicted to it since there can be a sudden onset drastic change in effects. I think if something happens on a true psychedelic like acid or mushrooms, it's more just bringing out something that was already there unless the drugs were bad or something like nbome... and I think if something happens to the mental health of a long term pothead, it's probably the thc abuse catching up with them and screwing their brains royally, like what happened to me. I used to love weed until I realized it had destroyed my mental health.

But then again I'm just talking about averages and my own opinion based on my experiences and those of my friends, everything should be taken on a case-by-base basis with all factors considered. Generally, moderate psychedelic use is reasonably safe.