Benzos Do I need to taper?

[Lovecraft]

For the last 4 months I've been taking Xanax one to 3 times per week on average, only at night to help with sleep. I take anywhere from .5 to 1.25 mg. I don't have any withdrawals but after not taking it the last 3 days, and sleeping just fine, last night I had some mean insomnia, which I'm thinking is related to my intermittent use. So, I'm going to take a long break. But I'm wondering if I should do some kind of mini, low dose taper, in order to mitigate any rebound insomnia. Maybe take .5 tonight and then maybe .25 in a couple days. Any suggestions are welcome.

 

[negrogesic]

I would not recommend tapering.

You'll be hit with a rebound for sure, but trying to taper will make it worse.

 

[Pickledlemons]

Nah I don't think so. I had to take Xanax daily for a lot longer than that before tapering started to become a necessity.

 

[Lovecraft]

Nah I don't think so. I had to take Xanax daily for a lot longer than that before tapering started to become a necessity.

Whaaaat? If I had taken it daily I know I'd have to taper.

 

[WellTram]

Slow taper Is always good because even not daily use of benzos can cause some problems with your own endogenous "calming-down" system. U should be ok, but if u want to be sure, taper...but don't taper for too long. Too long use will result in 100% anxiety, insomnia if u don't use enough = the addiction and u really dont want benzo addiction while simultanously not being able to feel them much...U take relatively low doses, if u can handle some insomnia and anxiety, stop now. If u want to feel comfy, taper for a few days. Dont raise your dose.

 

[Lovecraft]

Slow taper Is always good because even not daily use of benzos can cause some problems with your own endogenous "calming-down" system. U should be ok, but if u want to be sure, taper...but don't taper for too long. Too long use will result in 100% anxiety, insomnia if u don't use enough = the addiction and u really dont want benzo addiction while simultanously not being able to feel them much...U take relatively low doses, if u can handle some insomnia and anxiety, stop now. If u want to feel comfy, taper for a few days. Dont raise your dose.

But would I do a taper that involves taking a bit every night or alternating between taking it one night then not taking it for a couple nights? Im fine for a couple nights of not taking it after one night of taking it. It's always that 3rd or 4th night where the insomnia kicks in.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

With a low use pattern as you describe [the OP], with a medium long acting benzo not a long/ superlong acting one.
Meaning no build up in your system of the previous dosises.

Personally i d say no need to taper, see def no danger in a abrupt stop. Dosing 1/3 max times a week.
Been further, also using long lasting ones inbetween Nightly use, maybe 5/ 7 times a week.
Caused no problems, did however switch between the long half- live ones with a medium regular, like DesChloroetizolam.
Which by itself like etizolam seems forgiving.

But i dot advice nightly dosing, did that pure due to 2 1/2 years of insomnia. Selfmedicating.

 

[WellTram]

Just stop, if u dont suffer seizures, u Can handle rebound anxiety or insomnia...benzos are naughty ones, or...do very low dose taper byť again, if u use clonazepam/diazepam i dont need to dose too often, if u use short-acting, try 25% of pill, 4 times per day...tie days later 3 times per day u know..

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Lovecraft Cool name. I have only gotten into his literature very recently. It didn't make any sense to me when I was younger. Experiencing the world and people has put me in a position where I can read his stuff and enjoy it.

So you're not "dependent" at this point. You're not in any bad territory. You are in the realm of responsibility and within the bounds of rational Benzodiazepine usage. A person could likely use Benzodiazepines twice a week for their entire life. This is how Benzodiazepines should be used, that is in specific situations, not as a daily medication.

Good for you for being responsible. It's totally normal to get some of these symptoms. Understand that there are the primary effects of the drug, but also secondary aspects like changes in our psychology and perspective that come simply from experiencing the drug. Do you follow me?

You are not experiencing withdrawal, but your mind has now seen how quick and easy sleep can be with some help. You need to reprogram yourself a little bit, that's all. Within a week or two, you'll be fine.

I believe the idea of tapering is good. There's no harm that can come from it. Do your best to practice good "sleep hygiene" and try to take the lowest dose possible.

 

[Pickledlemons]

Guess I should have mentioned this the first time but if you need help sleeping, there are less dependence forming options. For example, sometimes I use seroquel, sometimes I use gabapentin, both are very easy to get an rx for. Sometimes I just use benadryl. Doxylamine is even better than benadryl imo but its really hard to get in Canada. I have to order it from the states if I want it.

The trick is not taking the same thing every night or it will become ineffective. Still, taking something every night still probably isn't good in the long run if you ever want to return to sleeping without pills.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Clonidine (Catapres) is an entirely underutilized medication in terms of insomnia. I believe it is a great middle ground between OTC stuff like sedating antihistamines and the more potent stuff like Z-Drugs/Benzodiazepines.

It's non-addictive by the standards of our community. Taking more does not make a person feel better. There is rebound hypertension if stopped abruptly, though there shouldn't be a reason one would have to stop abruptly. Also, it's a generic medication that costs like ~20 bucks a month without any kind of insurance.

 

[username_required]

Clonidine (Catapres) is an entirely underutilized medication in terms of insomnia. I believe it is a great middle ground between OTC stuff like sedating antihistamines and the more potent stuff like Z-Drugs/Benzodiazepines.

It's non-addictive by the standards of our community. Taking more does not make a person feel better. There is rebound hypertension if stopped abruptly, though there shouldn't be a reason one would have to stop abruptly. Also, it's a generic medication that costs like ~20 bucks a month without any kind of insurance.

Clonidine is absolutely far and away the best sleeping medication on the market. I was given high doses of antipsychotics to sleep starting at 16 and those fuckers are absolutely god awful if you take them daily. No one ever mentioned Clonidine to me and the only reason I’m on it now is because I found out about it on my own and asked for it. It’s honestly insane to me how it isn’t THE first line sleep aid. The only downside is that I have a genetic variation of my CYP2D6 enzyme that causes me to require excessive doses (1.2mg) of it to work and it doesn’t work as well as it should even with my dose, but that’s just me.

 

[Lovecraft]

Hey @Lovecraft Cool name. I have only gotten into his literature very recently. It didn't make any sense to me when I was younger. Experiencing the world and people has put me in a position where I can read his stuff and enjoy it.

So you're not "dependent" at this point. You're not in any bad territory. You are in the realm of responsibility and within the bounds of rational Benzodiazepine usage. A person could likely use Benzodiazepines twice a week for their entire life. This is how Benzodiazepines should be used, that is in specific situations, not as a daily medication.

Good for you for being responsible. It's totally normal to get some of these symptoms. Understand that there are the primary effects of the drug, but also secondary aspects like changes in our psychology and perspective that come simply from experiencing the drug. Do you follow me?

You are not experiencing withdrawal, but your mind has now seen how quick and easy sleep can be with some help. You need to reprogram yourself a little bit, that's all. Within a week or two, you'll be fine.

I believe the idea of tapering is good. There's no harm that can come from it. Do your best to practice good "sleep hygiene" and try to take the lowest dose possible.

Damn man, thanks for this response. I was confused because I know I'm not "dependent" in the classical sense of the word, but something is going on that's probably related to my use. But, perhaps that's an unavoidable side effect of using this med occasionally for sleep. Sometimes I don't know if the insomnia isn't just the original issue that I was prescribed the Xanax for to begin with because, again, I know I'm not "dependent". If I was, than I shouldn't be able to sleep any nights without it, which isn't the case.

And yeah, Lovecraft is an awesome author. Such creepy stories. Have you read much of his work?

 

[Keif' Richards]

@Lovecraft

Off the top of my head, I've read the "Innsmout" one, "the Ritual" (I think) and maybe one or two other short ones. Outside of the actual literature, I've read a lot about the overarching mythos of his universe. He has a big imagination. I don't want to sound like a snob. This was all probably 7+ years ago I was reading him. I felt that after reading a few of his stories, despite the seemingly infinite worlds, species and dimensions, I knew that the themese of his work were not seeming to go further from one story to another. Insanity, cosmic beings etc. I still think his work is amazing and he no doubt has had incredible influence on both horror and literature as a whole... anyway.

What you're describing is, I feel, the same idea I'm describing. No, you're not dependent. If we take a person with severe insomnia who is absolutely suffering. We give this person some Alprazolam. They go to sleep immediately, sleep through the night and awake feeling wonderful. The drug will have no chemical bearing on his body from the one usage. However, the experience of a means to end his suffering, to solve his problem just by swallowing a pill, this can do dangerous things to a man's mind if you follow me.

Taking the Alprazolam regardless of your tolerance is going to have an effect on your psychology. It will likely make it more difficult to fall asleep. However, like anything else, if you retrain yourself, put some time between you and the medication, you will forget and you will be essentially the same.

I hope this makes more sense. I feel like I'm rambling.

 

[Lovecraft]

@Lovecraft

Off the top of my head, I've read the "Innsmout" one, "the Ritual" (I think) and maybe one or two other short ones. Outside of the actual literature, I've read a lot about the overarching mythos of his universe. He has a big imagination. I don't want to sound like a snob. This was all probably 7+ years ago I was reading him. I felt that after reading a few of his stories, despite the seemingly infinite worlds, species and dimensions, I knew that the themese of his work were not seeming to go further from one story to another. Insanity, cosmic beings etc. I still think his work is amazing and he no doubt has had incredible influence on both horror and literature as a whole... anyway.

What you're describing is, I feel, the same idea I'm describing. No, you're not dependent. If we take a person with severe insomnia who is absolutely suffering. We give this person some Alprazolam. They go to sleep immediately, sleep through the night and awake feeling wonderful. The drug will have no chemical bearing on his body from the one usage. However, the experience of a means to end his suffering, to solve his problem just by swallowing a pill, this can do dangerous things to a man's mind if you follow me.

Taking the Alprazolam regardless of your tolerance is going to have an effect on your psychology. It will likely make it more difficult to fall asleep. However, like anything else, if you retrain yourself, put some time between you and the medication, you will forget and you will be essentially the same.

I hope this makes more sense. I feel like I'm rambling.

Makes perfect sense

@Lovecraft

Off the top of my head, I've read the "Innsmout" one, "the Ritual" (I think) and maybe one or two other short ones. Outside of the actual literature, I've read a lot about the overarching mythos of his universe. He has a big imagination. I don't want to sound like a snob. This was all probably 7+ years ago I was reading him. I felt that after reading a few of his stories, despite the seemingly infinite worlds, species and dimensions, I knew that the themese of his work were not seeming to go further from one story to another. Insanity, cosmic beings etc. I still think his work is amazing and he no doubt has had incredible influence on both horror and literature as a whole... anyway.

What you're describing is, I feel, the same idea I'm describing. No, you're not dependent. If we take a person with severe insomnia who is absolutely suffering. We give this person some Alprazolam. They go to sleep immediately, sleep through the night and awake feeling wonderful. The drug will have no chemical bearing on his body from the one usage. However, the experience of a means to end his suffering, to solve his problem just by swallowing a pill, this can do dangerous things to a man's mind if you follow me.

Taking the Alprazolam regardless of your tolerance is going to have an effect on your psychology. It will likely make it more difficult to fall asleep. However, like anything else, if you retrain yourself, put some time between you and the medication, you will forget and you will be essentially the same.

I hope this makes more sense. I feel like I'm rambling.

Makes perfect sense. Maybe I shouldn't try to quit then. I did need it for a reason. Maybe I should keep doing what I was doing. What do you think? I guess a break is a good thing. The thing is, I used to naturally not need it for longer periods of time but for some reason lately, I've been having more difficulty with sleep.