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DMT elves entering our realm

Haha, that is one of the largest inquiry's I've seen here yet, and a direct question that most dance around by simply describing an experience.
Yeah, that was sort of my take crOOky-baby. I didn't know what the fuck you wanted to talk about so I asked because I found the thread amusing. Then you said you were just trying to express yourself, so I suggested a blog post. End of story. Then all the rest of it, whatever it was...

If my intention was to come at you aggressively I'd have answered your question about DMT elves coming into our reality by saying: "NO!! What are you, a fucking idiot!?"
 
In hyperspace, you don't smoke DMT, DMT smokes you. Very interesting story. I've experienced plenty of unexplainable things over the years too. Sometimes when I'm on shrooms, things in the room start banging and making noises, people who are completely sober hear it and start getting freaked out.
 
No other drugs, just coming off a bit of booze from a party that night. I have been retroactively diagnosed with psychotic mania though. So in retrospect... it was still a weird fucking experience and I can only shake my head in disbelief looking back at it now. I've smoked dmt hundreds of times and nothing like that has ever happened. I had my body movement taken control of two times before (what most cultures would refer to as "spirit possession", except ours, where there's clearly a scientific explanation for such neurological symptoms lol), one time on DMT, the other during "sober psychosis", have had full blown sober OBE's after being plagued by sleep paralysis for years and years. All these have been deeply religious experiences for me, which have shaped my outlook on life and death throughout the years. This particular DMT experience though has never really been integrated into the big picture. I just can't say what happened that day.
I do have a feeling that what we perceive as elves might actually be ancient souls who give shape to a realm that lies deep beneith where the means of our perception allow us to enter under normal conditions, maybe even a place I could be entering in the moments before/after death, I really have no idea though. It's nothing that should be discussed or argued about imho, because it is something that will only ever have meaning to the individual, giving to it by experience. Ofc 99% of the people are gonna scream "religious nonsense", "psychotic crazy-talk" etc., but to me experience is the almighty dictator of my inner life and no outside force can rip it out of my memories. I therefore conclude that true is to me, what I have felt, what I have seen and smelled. It's important to keep an eye out on what the collective considers real and acceptable though, in order not to be labelled psychotic... lol
That being said, it simply made no sense and still makes no sense in the picture I've drawn myself of this world throughout life. Even if these spirits are not just a product of our neurochemistry when under the influence of large amounts of DMT, even if so, how in earth would they leave that realm. That would render what I saw a "ghost"... I've never really believed in such. Maybe it's time for me to ponder what happened that day. Maybe it's time to stop treating experience as ultimate truth and replace it by the easily digestable reality olanazapine supplies.
 
Maybe that elf just smoked olanzapine. ;D


edit: I just read that erowid trip report, that is quite the peripheral mention of elves within CVE's. I've once read a trip report somewhere, might've been by that McKenna guy, in which the trip was violently interrupted by someone knocking at the door, or punching at it to be more precise. The stress forced the person to open his eyes and he found himself in a room with elves running all over the place, on the walls, the ceiling, sitting on his shoulders, dangling from the cupboard and whatnot. It was quite the stretch for me to imagine that, considering what DMT CVE's usually are for me and how clearly definied they are. Well, someone else's experience - Not of any validity as long as it is an isolated incidence. In other words: Clearly nonsense, right?
 
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thanks for the link rollies, good trip report, i feel bad for his girl though that must've sucked really bad
 
Yeah I've been yearning to see entities without the help of drugs for years now.

If you're not experiencing psychosis I'd treat it from the paranormal vector of science from this point on as well as the traditional.
 
Well I dont know about that :p I've been on the verge of a psychotic break but as long as you stay rational, it's hard to actually break. Except benzos... can't stay rational on them XD

Very early on with 25C + 25I + Cannabis, I had a very interesting experience where I observed and shifted through 2d, 3d and then 4d/reality ... my inner eye was awakened as I shifted beyond just 4 dimensions and shit just went batshit crazy :D... Well, actually crazy, but I retained control nonetheless and it was very interesting

On psychedelics, you can pick up vibes from the environment around you... and countless times, I've believed that my hallucinations were actually there, but in dimensions 5-10, hence normally unnoticeable.

I've found that it is very hard to talk about the psychedelic experience with those who aren't interested in it. They take our experiences at face value, and begin to think we're nuts >: C
 
fixingahole said:
If you think that you see 'elves' then go back as often as possible to confirm or deny the reality of your conclusions. It is easy to get overwhelmed by what happened and then 'rationalize' in hindsight with the most irrational of conclusions. There really is no reason to believe any nonsense that someone else wrote, or any nonsense that you 'thought' you experienced without questioning it's validity.

Someone who had never seen an airplane before could be forgiven for thinking that it was a flying saucer, but it's not.
Tell, me what exactly is the value of the mentioned "validity"? Not being called a whackjob by the rest of society? I'd much rather keep my beliefs, keep holding the notion of my own inevitable death as a process of endless beauty instead. I've went through length telling you that I reject validity and prefer the value of individual experience in order to form an outlook on this world. Ratio is not the only option and science is just based on a belief system of it's own. Now I can see somebody argueing against that, but there is a point at which one cannot escape the realization that everything we consider knowledge is based on belief. Without belief there is no knowledge. For those in doubt of this simple truth (pun intended), I recommend getting into the very foundations of what we call science.


Some of us don't really have to go through such lengths to get to a similar conclusion. Just try to remember what the world was like when you were child and ask yourself:

"Is what I see now really that much better than what I saw then?"
 
I've had many things in the course of my life happen that are so bizarre and so seemingly without logical explanation, yet they happened.

I don't quivel over what is real anymore. If I'm experiencing it then it's happening. The only thing that matters is how I decide to let it affect me and what I wish to learn from it.

People say hallucinations aren't real yet they'll say the rest of life is real. Then you look at spiritual systems like Buddhism and Hinduism, and they will say that none of this is real. Life is the hallucination.

If it's all an illusion then anything is possible. Saying that reality somehow becomes "less real" because of a psychedelic and "more real" when sober is irrational to me. It's all one continuous reality being experienced by the experiencer.
 
Let me propose a theory. You did actually smoke the bowl, and suddenly (without you remembering it) the universe was unfolded before your eyes and the very details of divinity and the infinity of existence was revealed to you. Let's say that for some reason, your experience was stronger than anything ever experienced by any human being in the history of humanity! Humbling right? However, according to the universal laws of knowledge such foolish entities as humans aren't allowed experiences of this magnitude yet, (we will be eventually, don't worry) there has been a flaw in the hyperspace coding. Engineer elves are called in to fix this glitch, your memory is reset to the point at which you smoked the bowl. Unfortunately, in this very urgent process mistakes were made. Your memory was recreated, but they missed the part about your hand lighting the bowl, resulting in a very illogical series of events for you. But they thought, "Hey, it's getting late, we rather just go home and do elf stuff rather than working on this minor glitch." In elf language of course.

In case this little fairy tale wasnt appealing: Smoked DMT, brain failed, memory weird. :)
 
About the abnormality of it: Every single night you slip into a state where you meet people and beings and interact with them in a realm that replaces reality. Every night. Is it then so strange that there are other mindstates where you meet with other beings?
 
The last time I has such an experience, Dreaming Jaguar explained something to me: Rationalization is how we make sense out of the world around us. You can rationalize anything - but this does not mean that irrational things never happen. Science isn't a belief system - it's a tool. When you use rationalizations to deny your own experiences, to hide inside your belief system, you are misusing that tool. YMMV.
 
The last time I has such an experience, Dreaming Jaguar explained something to me: Rationalization is how we make sense out of the world around us. You can rationalize anything - but this does not mean that irrational things never happen. Science isn't a belief system - it's a tool. When you use rationalizations to deny your own experiences, to hide inside your belief system, you are misusing that tool. YMMV.


Jaguars and jungle scenes are very common of Ayahausca trips regardless of location. Interesting I wonder if DMT was involved.
 
General quick discussion on Subjectivity Vs. Objectivity with a focus on Phenomenology and Ontology as the catalysts to how each person interprets their exposure and percepts within the world. Which forms an internal projection of the world around us (subjective reality), even in places around the world that we have only read about, but never had actual exposure.

Any claim of objectivity always comes from a 1st person perspective or a collection of 1st person perspectives. 10 people seeing the same event could come out of it with different interpretations or internalization's of it's significance, how something can have sentimental value to one person but not an other . It partly depends on peoples prior knowledge related the event and the way they interpret and make sense of perceptions in general. This definitely can differ from person to person, given the different ways people cope with life or events and deal with thought processes vs others. It's also something that understandably can develop overtime in different ways, how we analyze or deal with thoughts, events and our intentionality in the world. I would say there is an Absolute State - that exists regardless of peoples subjective realities, like for instance the presence of dopamine in the brain - was there before human discovered it, it just wasn't part of humans realities prior to it's discovery. The absolute state also consists of all the entities in the world and the mental states/realities of each person, which influences how they interpret things or act in the world. However, each person's relation to "reality" and the belief they have on what it means - happens through subjective experience. We give meaning to the world and events around us - which is what reality is. Theoretically reality wouldn't exists if there were no humans or no consciousness - things like Chairs wouldn't exists. There could be a rock that someone could sit on, but if there were no conscious life forms to sit there or have a use for it - there wouldn't be a word for it, or even a situation where it could be used.

As such, it's impossible to have true objectivity, what we have is Subjective-Objectivity. Systems that show the same results every time we retest it - however the results of all our systems in science are limited to it's current technology and illuminations on significance of the cause and effect between what we are looking at. Objectivity becomes what can be experimentally repeated over and over the same, but nothing can claim what it doesn't know or what hasn't been discovered yet. This is why science can have new breakthroughs or new discoveries at all - the understanding of the bigger picture reveals new insights and results into whats going on. Like new technological developments that can look at smaller particles that we couldn't pick up previously. Those change the way the studies look for results and can render old beliefs incorrect or updated to account for a great complexity, previously under our radar - so to speak.

A good example would be prior to the discovery of Ultra-Violent light spectrum's, you could run 1,000's of experiment monitoring the available light-spectrum ranges and each time they would come to the same conclusion, until they reached the technology that showing ultra-violent ranges and were able to expand our understanding of the world around us, which is our reality. The same reason you may ask a friend what they did over the weekend (if you couldn't guess) and they would have to give you exposure to it in order for it to become part of your reality. This is why censorship in the media works so well, it hides exposure and creates blind spots in peoples realities, by blocking specific perceptions. We each build our own internal realities based on what we are exposed to and the way we mold it into a tangible reality which can differ person to person. Although mass communication and propaganda by definition attempt to stamp the same stimuli and analysis on many people in the same way at once. People still come to different conclusions within what they watch though, it's what allows you to have an argument or debate with someone, you each have different internal realities =)

I would pose that what we deem "reality" is the projection of each persons subjective phenomenology. In other words, each person opens up an internal take on what is reality based on the experiences they had or didn't, the people/books and other types of exposure that influenced how they envisioned the world or how to act or think in different situations. We are world dis-closers, based on how we interpret what we see when we experience the world around us, obviously psychedelics can open up deeper perspectives, remove automatic filters that block different perspectives and also distort the stimuli that we interpret as reality. Think of the saying, if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to hear it does it make a sound, I think a good reflection on this is, if we don't have exposure to something from our 1st person perspective, is it part of our reality? If I had 1 tree in my backyard that fell down while I was on vacation, I wouldn't know it fell until I came back and saw what happened, or if someone else informed me. But even though I didn't see the tree fall when it happened, it's not that it didn't take place - its just it wasn't part of my reality until I was exposed to what happened (disclosure). I would say that the true Objective state is the interactions of all entities in the world overtime, that is the influences that lead to why people come to certain beliefs vs others - how it leads to their thought processes, intentionality and actions in life. Although, in order to understand the full Objective state (The Absolute) we would have to be everywhere at once and also have full contextual understanding from the eyes of each person in the world. Because the way each person interprets something as well as what they never see influences their analytical process and leads to real actions in the world which effects the history of mankind.

The objective state is the complexities of the interactions overtime, regardless of whether or not people are exposed or correctly interpret the significance of all the interactions - this is how things that were held as scientific fact, can later be proven inaccurate after new discoveries. Humans and sciences claim to what is objective or fact always comes from the 1st person perspective and is subject to all the possible distortions that can take place in human subjectivity or results made prior to new discoveries. Again, two people can share the same stimuli and same space/time experience and come away with different interpretations, like looking at a piece of art or political event. We each have a mental lens (Ontology) The significance that we can make from stimuli in the world. For instance a doctor might be able to detect more significance of an illness than someone who was never trained with a familiarity of what to look for, or what means what. Or a computer techie vs the person's computer they are fixing. They have different systems of making sense or dealing with objects/concepts in their world. That is part of how their subjective reality reveals their life experiences.

But ultimately we are all trapped in our subjective realities, that may be made up from a collection of other peoples subjective realities. But even science, finds new discoveries that expands the bigger picture. Like molecules for example, prior to discovering Dopamine - did that mean it didn't exists in our brains? Or that it was still there, just not part of our reality yet - because the primacy of reality relies on a 1st person perception overtime.
 
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from Book 1 of PiHKAL

Cludio Naranjo, a psychiatrist-anthropologist who had made his way years bedore through South American jungles to discover the Ayahuasca vine, gave a passionate talk which transmitted the excitement he felt about the jungle images of Ayahuasca-induced intoxication. In his experience, and in the experience of his patients, according to Claudio, the taking of plant extracts that contained harmaline invariably brought about visions of jaguars and other flora and fauna associated with the jungle in which the vine grew.

Also at the meeting was the well-known and respected botanist, Richard E. Schultes of Harvard, and I had heard from him that he had never experienced these particular types of visual images with Ayahuasca.

I had the pleasure of introducing them, and mentioned their common interest. Claudio opened the conversation:

"What do you think about the jaguars?"

"What jaguars?"

A small silence.

"Are you personally familiar with authentic Banistriopsis caapi?" asked Claudio, his voice slightly strained.

"Richard looked at him closely. "I was the one who assigned it its name."

Claudio went on. "Have you ever taken the plant decoction itself?"

"Perhaps fifteen times."

"And never jaguars?"

"Sorry, only wiggly lines."

Claudio turned away. To my knowledge, they have not talked since.
 
Let me propose a theory. You did actually smoke the bowl, and suddenly (without you remembering it) the universe was unfolded before your eyes and the very details of divinity and the infinity of existence was revealed to you. Let's say that for some reason, your experience was stronger than anything ever experienced by any human being in the history of humanity! Humbling right? However, according to the universal laws of knowledge such foolish entities as humans aren't allowed experiences of this magnitude yet, (we will be eventually, don't worry) there has been a flaw in the hyperspace coding. Engineer elves are called in to fix this glitch, your memory is reset to the point at which you smoked the bowl. Unfortunately, in this very urgent process mistakes were made. Your memory was recreated, but they missed the part about your hand lighting the bowl, resulting in a very illogical series of events for you. But they thought, "Hey, it's getting late, we rather just go home and do elf stuff rather than working on this minor glitch." In elf language of course.
LOL brilliant!
 
Let me propose a theory. You did actually smoke the bowl, and suddenly (without you remembering it) the universe was unfolded before your eyes and the very details of divinity and the infinity of existence was revealed to you. Let's say that for some reason, your experience was stronger than anything ever experienced by any human being in the history of humanity! Humbling right? However, according to the universal laws of knowledge such foolish entities as humans aren't allowed experiences of this magnitude yet, (we will be eventually, don't worry) there has been a flaw in the hyperspace coding. Engineer elves are called in to fix this glitch, your memory is reset to the point at which you smoked the bowl. Unfortunately, in this very urgent process mistakes were made. Your memory was recreated, but they missed the part about your hand lighting the bowl, resulting in a very illogical series of events for you. But they thought, "Hey, it's getting late, we rather just go home and do elf stuff rather than working on this minor glitch." In elf language of course.

In case this little fairy tale wasnt appealing: Smoked DMT, brain failed, memory weird. :)
LOL Brilliant! :D

Oh and thank you, Bi0hazardOpeth!

"An unexamined life is a life not worth living."
Not sure what Socrates and this statement has to do with my beliefs, but if I haven't made it clear enough: The beliefs are based on examination of my life. I've probably done so much introspection in my life that some would deem it unhealthy. That quote seems out of place or maybe I just don't know what you're getting at.


Btw jaguars eating DMT containing plants for their mind altering effects was a new one to me. That's fantastic though. Ofc the scenes shown are a short selection of a lot more material, but in one shot you can see the bedazzlement in his eyes, lovely. Beautiful animals anyway.
 
Seems to me like Claudio is so brain-washed by his own culture that he considers visions of own-culture-related material on yage unmistakeable. If that is missing, to him it cannot be true and there could be no alternate explanations.
Nice illustration of this thread, that probably should go on doing healthy checks as part of skepticism. Good lesson here ^

I've tried to apply many reality-checks to my experiences and seem to able to 'justify' most. Relatively a lot, which I find remarkably... but then again psychedelic trips are not the same as desusions. On psychedelics and dissociatives together it quickly becomes easier to lose a track of reality. And what you need for an unexplainable experience is cognitive dissociation: to have absolutely no explanations left that can merge two ideas or experiences with the same premises and theories.

With DMT it can be a challenge indeed, but in the end I think it is still all just ways in which we are overwhelmed, too overwhelmed to find more proper explanations. I think occam's razor applies.

About the weird timing of events when you were blasting off: there are so many continuance errors when blasting off that suggestion could have easily triggered the quickly and surely mounting DMT levels in your body and brain...

I don't think anything is necessarily *that* less magical about considering our spiritual forces only in mental visualizations including these entities. Does it matter if these other dimensions exist only in the mind? Some might consider it second-rate existence if it is not material in the same way but IMO the primary thing that counts in ontology, physics and metaphysics is information.
 
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