Misc Dissociatives and benzodiazepines

[adder]

I've recently realized that my benzodiazepine tolerance might have had a lot to do with the effects that I got from dissociatives. I used benzodiazepines for over 9 years and I used clonazepam for the last 6 years. I completely stopped feeling clonazepam like 2-3 years ago (I'm not including the slight relief felt from taking a single dose after a few days long break). I had very little effects from diphenidine. Last time I tried ketamine was around the time when I stopped feeling clonazepam, I guess. Honestly speaking the last few years is big blank. I don't even know how I managed to recover so fast, it's been a little over 3 months since I quit clonazepam and I've never felt so great in the last 10 years. I started thinking logically and strategically again finally, I started seeing things again that I couldn't, the list goes on.

Anyway, I can remember that I did get something from ketamine back then. As I compare, I must say that I used to get a lot more from dextromethorphan earlier, which I rather attributed to dissociative tolerance. It's obvious that benzodiazepine tolerance means both GABA downregulation and glutamate upregulation, but I never thought that it would alter dissociative effects to such a big extent that the effects felt like a threshold. Diphenidine seems to be weaker and less "euphoric" vs. arylcyclohexanamines, but then again it really seemed weird to me that some people got such good results with the doses that did nothing to me.

Is there anyone here who can reflect on the effects of dissociatives while being tolerant to benzodiazepines? Also, if my benzodiazepine tolerance altered dissociatives effects so much, then is it possible that taking a dissociative now after quitting benzodiazepines might bring some negative effects of benzodiazepine withdrawal back? The effect on GABA is secondary, so it appears to me that a single use might actually help to recover further. What do you think? If my benzodiazepine tolerance had such a huge impact on dissociatives I took, then it really changes things for me.8)

 

[f33lg00d]

They have no cross tolerance. There are two drugs I can think of that are GABAergic and NMDA antagonists, ethanol and muscimol.

 

[sekio]

How high was your dissociative tolerance at its peak?

 

[adder]

My highest tolerance was around 150mg ketamine i.m. for K-Hole (weight ~50 kg at the time).

They have no cross tolerance. There are two drugs I can think of that are GABAergic and NMDA antagonists, ethanol and muscimol.

Directly they don't, but GABA and glutamate systems are related. When you constantly slow your body down with benzodiazepine increasing GABA activity, then I imagine the body compensates for that with releasing more glutamate to try to keep balance. Then the withdrawal from benzodiazepines is in part caused by over-active glutamate system, there's nothing to stimulate GABA system and the body is accustomed to the level of glutamate higher than in a healthy person without tolerance to GABAergics.

 

[adder]

Yesterday I took some diphenidine analogue and I must say that the difference is huge, and the dose was quite low. It worked like a light dissociative without the "high" feeling of ketamine. And today my mood is much increased similarly to how ketamine used to work for me in the past before I got tolerant to benzodiazepines, so glutamate upregulation must be quite high due to higher levels of glutamate caused by increased GABA signalling.