Diphenidine can be fatal, especially smoked close to or with tobacco

[Marauder]

I actually pulled over and had to type this because it's important. A friend of mine and I had bad reactions on diphenidine. We are both ok now and the experiences did not occur together and I actually just reached out to him today but he has not gotten back to me about the details of his experience yet but here's what I put together.

I had smoked tobacco plus diphenidine almost close together (within minutes apart, not something I usually do.) So do my friend. I then experienced an acute head pain, what I imagine a stroke to feel like, or maybe an aneurysm. It felt like a nerve or vein in my head was going to pop. It quickly, within seconds, became excruciatingly painful and I was only able to run to my neighbor's home and ask him to call 911.

When the ambulance arrived I was on the floor confused but still conscious. Vitals were taken and questions were asked but within maybe 10 minutes--no sense of time except very early in the 911/emergency procedure that we did not drive away from the home yet--I felt ok enough to request not being taken to a hospital.

In hindsight I should have gone but anyway. Fast forward one day and after sleep, I feel normal and fine minus tinnitus and some feeling of euphoria which I can only attribute to being alive and maybe some physiological or chemical body and brain reaction that feels transient, though admittedly pleasant. The experience is scary and I've since flushed the substance away. I'm even afraid to smoke tobacco now and will refrain from this for as long as possible, hopefully forever.

So the only things I can find from reports of fatalities from diphenidine online are that it was smoked with or without tobacco or synthetic cannabinoids. Perhaps blood pressure medication or psychiatric medication plays a role here but I'm no doctor so I won't guess any further.

Please be safe. If you continue to smoke diphenidine or a related substance do so in moderation and try not to mix with any other substance, and please have a sitter by. Do it for your family's sake if not your own or our sake.

I keep saying smoked only because this was my ROA and the ROA of diphenidine mixed with synthetic cannabinoids suggested to be a cause of death in online report(s). It's likely not safe to mix with some substances or situations in any ROA.

 

[dopamimetic]

There's something really strange to diphenidine/ephenidine etc. quite some people find them disturbing or 'toxic' feeling, including me ...they have a nasty dysphoric heavily stimulating side to them, and when you look at lefetamine which is also a stimulant and seizurogenic / neurotoxic in higher dosages, this makes sense.

Also the related RC opioid MT-45 has got some very bad reputation about serious physical side effects (either here on BL or on reddit - think it was about hearing loss, alopecia etc.. this could well be due to bad synth or impurities, but probably we'll never know.)

Lefetamine - Ephenidine - MT-45

 

[Marauder]

Please make sure that diphenidine and stims are not taken together.

 

[Marauder]

Blood pressure medication and stimulants, including tobacco, together with diphenidine can be fatal.

 

[Marauder]

If you vape or smoke diphenidine, make sure you don't have residual chemicals in the pipe.

Tobacco, 3-fpm, speed. Whatever.

 

[pbuilder]

I've heard tobacco is a weak maoi, maybe that has something to do with it.

 

[Marauder]

Very good point. E-cigs lack that kick because they don't have the MAOI properties from smoked tobacco. At least this is something I've always suspected.

 

[dopamimetic]

Marauder, what dosages of diphenidine were used and over what amount of time?

I'm pushing this thread because I think it's important and I'm curious (and a bit anxious, to be honest, because dissociatives are my DOC) about the mechanisms behind. We have this speculation about Olney's lesions that probably don't occur acutely at recreationally used dosages, but we have readily visible damage in heavy chronic ketamine users (only one year of use with 0.5g/d is enough for MRI changes to occur!). Speculated mechanisms are cholinergic and norepinephrinergic (see the later postings especially).

That cholinergic link raised my attention because nicotine obviously acts over nicotinic acetylcholine receptors ... choline has much more toxic potential than I used to think, when we remember of these nerve agents...

 

[belligerent drunk]

I thought nerve agents didn't cause permanent brain damage? Unless only as a secondary means, e.g hypoxia. And you have to remember that they cause extremely huge overexcitation of ACh receptors, definitely not comparable to slight overactivation. Do you have any studies on hand to show how exactly ACh is damaging? Would save me some time searching.

It is interesting to me because I don't know much about the acetylcholine system (haven't really studied it) yet I take racetams and lecithin often. And that has been speculated to actually improve cognition.

 

[dopamimetic]

The effects of nerve agents are very long lasting and increase with successive exposures. Survivors of nerve agent poisoning almost invariably suffer chronic neurological damage. This neurological damage can also lead to continuing psychiatric effects. (wikipedia)

I don't know that much about acetylcholine either, just about that it's crucial for memory formation and cognition in general, the racetam things and curiously both hypo- (anticholinergic delirium, but really strangely associated with euphoria by some) and hyper-cholinergic (usually associated with depression up to feeling acutely suicidal, anxiety, seems to mediate part of opioid withdrawal) states seem to be not exactly good, but oppositional to what I used to think, acetylcholine appears to be kind of an excitatory agent but also a regulating one. Too much choline seems definitely to be worse than too less, but the latter condition drives one crazy equally.

I really can't use any racetams. They make me instantly depressed, anxious and hopeless in general - quite the opposite to what dissociatives do, despite that they seem to increase choline over some downstream mechanisms too (what would make sense in that they indeed enhance cognitive processing, as long as one is able to remember anything because of the NMDA antagonism, that is). Strange. NMDA (glutamate), acetylcholine, endorphins, dopamine - all appear to be interconnected more or less directly and interact in a really complicated way.

This makes an interesting link to nicotine and what you've mentioned about it, or it's properties in general (stimulating at lower dosages, sedating at higher - not confirmed by me, but seems to be the general consent), maybe it's about auto receptors that mediate the opposite activity when they are agonised / antagonised?

Also smokers seem to get flashbacks to previous DXM trips from time to time, as mentioned in White's FAQ. Seems like it's better not to smoke when doing dissociatives (or not to smoke at all, but that's up to everyone).

Definitely have to read on. Will post if I find something remarkable

 

[Marauder]

It's hard to quantify the diphenidine usage overall.

ROA vaped/smoked.

There were breaks of anywhere between 2 days to 2 weeks between usage.

Pattern of usage is completely arbitrary however, with days binging nonstop and days toking 50-150mg here and there.

No lingering damage as far as I can tell but I wouldn't know what I'm missing would I heh?