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Dihydroetorphine

haribo1

haribo1

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Nov 29, 2006
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I'm having a hard time finding the exact potency of dihydroetorphine. Some sources list it equipotent with etorphine while some claim it's 2-13 times stronger than etorphine. If so, wouldn't this be the strongest opiate of all, stripping ohmefentanyl (assuming you seperate all those isomers) of it's crown?
It also seems to have slightly different binding characteristics and is not supposed to be as abusable. In China, where it is used clinically it's usually only taken by addicts to prevent withdrawal, not because it's a good high per se...
 
^Yep, read that, but etorphine is supposed to be 1500-3000x morphine so those figures are a little confusing to my meagre brain...
 
yeah.. the math didn't add up

from what ive been reading..

Dihydroetorphine produced a bimodal dose-effect curve similar to that of other opioids. Potency ratios were determined with morphine for the ascending and descending limbs of the dose-effect curve, as well as the dose that yielded maximal response rate.
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Etorphine is extremely dangerous. Even a small amt will kill. The only people who can use it are veterinarians to sedate large animals like elephants, and need a special license along with a DEA license in the US. If dihydroetorphine (ie - eroin ?) were to be made, how could someone assure that the microgram dosage is not fatal if used? Seems that etorphine, not to mention dihydroetorphine, would be useless compounds for abuse due to significant risk of death by overdose..
 
General alcazar said:
Etorphine is extremely dangerous. Even a small amt will kill. The only people who can use it are veterinarians to sedate large animals like elephants, and need a special license along with a DEA license in the US. If dihydroetorphine (ie - eroin ?) were to be made, how could someone assure that the microgram dosage is not fatal if used? Seems that etorphine, not to mention dihydroetorphine, would be useless compounds for abuse due to significant risk of death by overdose..
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Yes, I'm quite aware of it's potency, which is why etorphine (Immobilon/M99) is only supplied in kits with an appropriate antagonist, diprenorphine (Reviveron/M5050). In fact, it's actually the concept of dihydrodiprenorphine that particularly interests me.
DHE is used in China for human pain-control, so it's not a totally unknown quantity. The TI is MUCH higher than morphine, but yes it's likely fatal at the sub-milligram level so cerveat emptor.
 
If one were to receive an OD of M99 (say one misassembled the tranc dart or put it in backwards), the reversal agent would be unlikely to act fast enough to rescue the victim given the quantities it is used in for big animals. Naltrexone or naloxone would also work equally well at appropriate doses...
 
General alcazar said:
If one were to receive an OD of M99 (say one misassembled the tranc dart or put it in backwards), the reversal agent would be unlikely to act fast enough to rescue the victim given the quantities it is used in for big animals. Naltrexone or naloxone would also work equally well at appropriate doses...
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depends on how it kills, if its through simple respiratory depression then assisted breathing with or without an anatagonist would be sufficient. The issue I believe with the reversal agent is that quite often the reversal agent has a shorter duration than the agonist and so problems occur when the antagonist wears off and the agonist is still active. this is a known problem with some of the fentanyls at anaesthetic doses.

I don't get the obsession with rediculous potency, yes by definition it must have high affinity and therefore is likely not to have effects on other systems at the dosage where it has the desired effects, but the downside wrt to overdose and dilution is pretty serious and outweighs any possible desirability.
 
That is why heroin is still the king of opiates. Reasonably easy to dose yet potent, euphoric and a reasonable duration of effect. Overdoses of narcotics kill via respiratory and in higher doses, cardiovascular depression - in other words, massive ODs can stop a heart too. Naltrexone is relatively long lasting. Naloxone is not and needs redosing frequently.
 
General alcazar said:
If one were to receive an OD of M99 (say one misassembled the tranc dart or put it in backwards), the reversal agent would be unlikely to act fast enough to rescue the victim given the quantities it is used in for big animals. Naltrexone or naloxone would also work equally well at appropriate doses...
Click to expand...

Well the full vet proceedure is that before you even prepare the injection of etorphine (be it be via dart or simple syringe) you have the antagonist drawn up and ready for use by an assistant. Then if an accident happens the antagonist can be administered immediately. This is sufficient to protect the patient until treatment can be initiated at an A&E/ER dept. If that is a long way away, the time period of how often to administer the antagonist is included with the Immobilon kit. Most accidents with darts etc are effectively IM/SC admin, so not immediate acting; should it actually be IV (pure unfortunate chance), then you're well & truely fucked...

If you think you can draw up the antagonist after being accidentally doses, then you're labouring under a false sense of safety, especially if you're working on your own (which is specifically contraindicated for Immobilon use)
 
^Yep, F&B knows the score. Has anyone considered that etorphine (or DHE) will just totally fill the mu receptors and will NOT be displaced by naloxone or such? Hence M5050 (diprenorphine). I'm wondering about diprenorphine implants but the immunosuppresant qualities of DHE make me wonder. I'm certainly not looking for the 'king of opiates', I'm looking for a good treatment...
 
That makes sense, but isn't the antagonist also to reverse the animal in the event of an overdose or poor recovery ? I always thought they used naltrexone to reverse it. BTW, the putting in the dart backwards and getting a face full of etorphine actually happened once. The shooter got sprayed in the face...
 
I have a question: If you were to accidently poke yourself with the needle, how long owuld you have to administer the antagonist?

That'd be a trip.
 
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