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Stimulants Different stimulation from energy drinks versus coffee

G_Chem said:
If I was flushed with tons of proper stimulants I would agree, but when you’re trying to get the most out of 5-10mg d-Amphetamine you add things in. I actually find the combo of coffee and Adderall to be a great one, but just have to watch the dosage.

-GC
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Fair enough, I can agree with that. actually, if caffeine helps you to lower your stimulant dose or get the most out of it, Sounds like a good idea. I guess the study I read was referring to caffeine as a cutting agent or adjunct to the use of illegal drugs like methamphetamine.
 
elgoucho9 said:
Surely all the other active ingredients in the energy drinks are what makes it different to coffee.

It's not just one active compound in most energy drinks, more like multiple active compounds.
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Certainly true. thanks for bringing that up. Energy drinks are often packed with vitamins, Especially B vitamins, which ramp up catecholamine production. meanwhile, ingredients like acetylcarnitine can have affects on expression of certain dopamine receptors, D1 if I remember correctly. these additives are poorly absorbed, are not stored but rapidly excreted by the body so they are unlikely to have an affect with short-term energy drink consumption. however, in combination with caffeine, they might contribute to behavioural sensitisation to energy drinks with long-term consumption. this is because they will be better absorbed and utilised when taken in long-term, possibly something to do with vitamin transporters in the intestines.
We should also consider taurine. despite being an amino acid, it acts like a drug in its own right. apparently, at the high doses found in energy drinks, taurine produces centrally mediated anxiolytic and sedative effect via acting on the inhibitory glycine receptors. this can cancel out or at least reduce the anxiety that would otherwise be provoked by large amounts of caffeine allowing the individual to get a more positive experience.

Energy drinks aren’t for everyone, but I do believe they are well pharmacologically designed to be both practical and reinforcing especially for young people.
I’ve also noticed that those who truly enjoy energy drinks tend to have more of a laid-back and immature personality. I consider myself to be one of these people, but I’ve noticed the same pattern across my social circle, throughout education and even at work, regardless of age or sex.
 
Neuroprotection said:
Fair enough, I can agree with that. actually, if caffeine helps you to lower your stimulant dose or get the most out of it, Sounds like a good idea. I guess the study I read was referring to caffeine as a cutting agent or adjunct to the use of illegal drugs like methamphetamine.
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Could you link it? Yea I also figured the study you were referencing likely used larger than average doses. I could be wrong though..

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
Could you link it? Yea I also figured the study you were referencing likely used larger than average doses. I could be wrong though..

-GC
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Yes, tbh nearly all the studies with the words “methamphetamine” and “neurotoxicity” in the title involve administering ridiculous doses to rodents. It’s always something like this : “Methamphetamine is highly neurotoxic… Look at the damage to this rat’s brain after we injected it with 5g/Kg of pure meth."
Or alternatively : "meth is so neurotoxic that it completely fucked up this poor cell in a petri dish."

But still, I'd like to see the study. Honestly I was never a big fan of mixing caffeine with other stims.
 
G_Chem said:
Could you link it? Yea I also figured the study you were referencing likely used larger than average doses. I could be wrong though..

-GC
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I’ve posted two links as a reply to this thread. unfortunately, I can’t find the original Study, I read, but these say something similar. of course, as previously suspected, I think these are referring to recreational drug use with high doses but I guess they are still relevant since people on Multi day amphetamine binges will sometimes consume large amounts of energy drinks or caffeine pills to enhance their experience. caffeine is also a common cutting agent in cocaine and amphetamine as well as ecstasy sold on the streets.
 
NRG drinks ime resemble Coffee, maybe except the eco versions. They are much more sweetend then my Coffe that is for sure.

What I would call a big difference is between Guarana ( contains an Xanthine ) and Coffee. Talking equavalent doses.
 
I like the fact that you mentioned the anti depressant effects of coffee because I've always felt that coffee gave my mood a lift when I was feeling blue, i've even called it my depression juice lol. One weird thing I've noticed is that the anti depressant effect seems to be lacking in energy drinks and caffeine pills, hell even in strong teas as well. On the flip side coffee has a tendency to make me more anxious than other sources of caffeine. I don't know if this is in my head like a placebo of sorts or if there's more to it but it's just my particular experience with caffeine.
 
I definitely feel it's different, I think feel like I'm even dependent on energy drinks at this point. I mean not terribly so but I never feel "right" until I drink one. Even if I'm like doing meth or a ton of amphetamine, I'm still not good until I drink a Monster or Bang or something. Then I'm good.

I do still drink coffee, tea, guayuda, etc as well. I love them honestly. Just there's something in energy drinks that does something for me that nothing else seems to.
 
nativenick said:
I like the fact that you mentioned the anti depressant effects of coffee because I've always felt that coffee gave my mood a lift when I was feeling blue, i've even called it my depression juice lol. One weird thing I've noticed is that the anti depressant effect seems to be lacking in energy drinks and caffeine pills, hell even in strong teas as well. On the flip side coffee has a tendency to make me more anxious than other sources of caffeine. I don't know if this is in my head like a placebo of sorts or if there's more to it but it's just my particular experience with caffeine.
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Interesting.

I tend to find energy drinks stronger is an antidepressant, but everyone is different. Coffee does contain anti-inflammatory polyphenols and if your depressive symptoms are linked to chronic low-grade inflammation then coffee may well be doing the job very well for you, by directly addressing a potential cause of your depression. this is theoretical of course but it’s certainly possible.
 
tussive said:
I definitely feel it's different, I think feel like I'm even dependent on energy drinks at this point. I mean not terribly so but I never feel "right" until I drink one. Even if I'm like doing meth or a ton of amphetamine, I'm still not good until I drink a Monster or Bang or something. Then I'm good.

I do still drink coffee, tea, guayuda, etc as well. I love them honestly. Just there's something in energy drinks that does something for me that nothing else seems to.
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Wow! okay, I knew energy drinks had something special about them Setting them apart from coffee, but I never knew they could even come close to amphetamine and traditional psychostimulants. just out of interest, can you still feel energy drinks stimulation when abstinent from amphetamine? if so, do you mind explaining how the stimulation, both physical and psychological of energy drinks and amphetamine/methamphetamine compare? I only ask because I’ve never tried traditional psychostimulants, i’ve only ever used caffeine and occasionally nicotine. i’m now pretty convinced I want to try something like methylphenidate to treat my low mood, but I’d rather wait until I’m financially independent and can freely use nicotine. then, if caffeine and nicotine stop working for me, I can give methylphenidate a try.
 
Oh I am sorry, if I implied that energy drinks were as strong as amphetamines, absolutely not. I just still feel off until I consume one. It's hard to exactly quantify, it's a vague sense of tiredness. I guess it is similar, but to a much smaller degree. Like if I just take a bunch of Adderall, I'm still stimulated. It's just like there's a piece of the puzzle missing.

Comparing energy drinks with other stimulants is like, they're so different. Energy drinks you can power through and force yourself to stay awake, but it's not exactly pleasant, high doses of just caffeine. It's totally lacking in the mental aspect, there's no real increase in motivation or joy or euphoria like there is with something like amphetamine.

Makes sense, smoking on stimulants is awesome, so I understand why you would want to wait until you were capable of doing both at the same time.
 
G_Chem said:
Could you link it? Yea I also figured the study you were referencing likely used larger than average doses. I could be wrong though..

-GC
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Not a study but I can tell you anyone who uses European speed and had a chance to try a pure amphetamine sulphate or some other salt knows very well how caffeine either totally fucks up speed high or makes it good depending what you look for. Those who look for jittery high find it better when with caffeine. Speed is often 50/50 amph/caffeine than cuz with incatives to some lowish percentage but loads of folks, even “weekend warriors” use insane amounts of it. For me speed with any significant amount of caffeine feels very shitty. If we are talking one coffee with some pure stuff in smalish dose, that is another story.
 
A bit off topic but has anyone ever felt that regular caffeine use is no longer working for them and considered giving it up, Only for it to start working again very well. this happened to me. last winter when I went through a period of anhedonia, I would drink my huge flask of fresh black coffee just to avoid withdrawal headaches. however, I wasn’t getting anything good out of the caffeine and if anything I would get negative stimulation and worsening anxiety. it was unusual because I normally found caffeine very pleasant both as a mood elevating and functional stimulant. whilst my anhedonia/depression/anxiety slowly disappeared over the year, caffeine still lacked the benefits it used to give me. despite not taking any recent tolerance breaks, thanks to God caffeine has suddenly started working brilliantly for me again. It started with the spontaneous return of the wakefulness promoting and mood elevating affects, and shortly after it’s cognitive enhancing effects.
Personally, I put The temporary loss of caffeine efficacy down to A brain change that might have been brought on by chronic stress. caffeine and stress don’t mix well and I think my anhedonia was brought on bye The huge shock of starting work for the first time as a blind person working from home and lacking motivation. Prior to this, I have been unemployed and basically chilling out at home for two years.
Caffeine very likely worsens severe stress involving emotional dysregulation, On the other hand, it can help immensely with low-level predictable stressers like predictable daily work schedules and small deadlines by improving cognitive performance and mood. I feel that as I’ve psychologically adjusted to work, My brain has recovered, and now I can enjoy caffeine again. Hope this helps anyone in a similar situation to mine.
 
I drink coffee for taste and to aid digestion not for stimulant quality. Maybe if I would give it a long break it would also awake me a bit but I’m not sure in that. During any kind of WDs I avoid it totally cuz of anxiety causing/adding effect.
 
Neuroprotection said:
As I’ve said before, I love caffeine for its energising and mild antidepressant effects. interestingly, I’ve noticed the two main sources of high-dose caffeine, Coffee and energy drinks (monster) have considerably different effects in terms of type of stimulation, duration of action and effects on mood etc.
I’ll start with coffee as that’s what I’m now using daily. it produces very mild stimulation in small quantities, with larger amounts producing slightly elevated mood and excitement along with strong jittery feelings and anxiety. there’s also usually nausea and peripheral effects like high heart rate if I drink a lot of coffee. The effects of coffee seem very short lived, especially the positive effects.

With energy drinks, e.g. sugar-free Redbull or sugar-free monster, The stimulation was rather different. there was considerably more mental stimulation and mood elevation, sometimes approaching mild euphoria. if I drank more than 500 mL of such energy drinks, I would get a very strong urge to move about. also, peripheral stimulation from energy drinks is more noticeable, but unlike that from coffee, is not uncomfortable. also, I don’t really get nausea from drinking High amounts of energy drinks. last but not least, Energy drinks give me a much longer period of stimulation with extended positive effects and little to no negative effects.

You may be wondering why I switched to coffee if energy drinks were far better. basically, it was a combination of factors, but mainly encouragement from my mother Who feared that energy drinks would destroy my teeth and I can’t really disagree with that. also, others around me noticed I lost too much weight when drinking energy drinks regularly.

Does anyone else have experience with both of these caffeinated beverages and do you think there is a considerable difference?
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Could it be the high (sometimes very high) sugar content of the energy drinks? I find sugar synergises with caffeine. Energy drinks can often have extremely high levels of added vitamins B6 and B12, which boost energy and if you are at all deficient in B vitamins, those alone can make you super fucking high.

EDIT: Like the reason some people get insanely high from those "5 hour Energy" type shot things is because they tend to have hundreds of times the recommended daily vitamin B6 amount and sometimes TENS OF THOUSANDS of times the amount of B12 you need. So people with even a slight deficiency get a crazy-high from them. Those doses taking occasionally are fine, btw, B Vitamins are water-soluble so if there's excess you just pee it out. While you technically can OD on most of the B vitamins, Hypervitamosis B from B6 is extremely rare and from B12 is rare and usually only occurs in the elderly.
 
Neuroprotection said:
Interesting.

I tend to find energy drinks stronger is an antidepressant, but everyone is different. Coffee does contain anti-inflammatory polyphenols and if your depressive symptoms are linked to chronic low-grade inflammation then coffee may well be doing the job very well for you, by directly addressing a potential cause of your depression. this is theoretical of course but it’s certainly possible.
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Lol Chronic low grade inflammation and a link to depression is such an obvious thing ive barely considered until I read this post ... which kinda makes me feel like a bit of a dullard :p . Clearly what's bad for the body is almost certainly even worse for the brain. I mean Im an alcoholic and diabetes runs in my family (haven't had blood sugar tested in a minute, but it wouldn't surprise me if I'm pre diabetic), so the anti inflammatory properties of caffeine making it easier to deal with this roller coaster of alcohol abuse and blood sugar spikes and dips makes perfect sense. As a side note I'm a black coffee guy now I haven't drinkin coffee with sweetener or creamer In over 3 years or more at least, and that's about when I noticed this effect. Which explains energy drinks doing squat for my depression considering the sugar content ...a doi :p
 
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