Die from methadone withdrawal?

[4DQSAR]

If it worked for you, cool.

Unsure if one can make a blanket statement about dopamine. I do NOT experience euphoric from anything that increases the levels of dopamine in by brain. I feel frustrated with myself and just sit there waiting for it to stop. I'm someone who will hang out with adults who choose to consume dopamagenics and it's funny when, after being offered a line, I politely say no. EVERY time they add 'but it's free' as if they might think they were going to ask me for money. I realize I might do better to say I'm allergic - because dysphoria must surely be a sign of my brain saying 'this is harming you' so it's not a lie.

But homeostasis is what it's all about, as far as I can tell, Whever you consume to alter your thinking, your body will adjust and sooner or later, you end up where you were, possibly poorer, possibly more unwell, possibly in danger.

That opioids treat emotional pain is often overlooked. I suspect that is why some people are fine with them and some people are not.

 

[burn out]

Well, Ross was 32. I don't know if you would consider that to be old. He never mentioned any health issues beyond his fondness for H. The guy owned his own home, had a well paid job and I suppose would be classed as a 'functional addict'.

HE decided that HE wanted to stop and given he had a sizable amount of disposable income and supportive parents, he got good treatment. But he got so sick he wound up in hospital due to a heart attack and a couple of days later his distraught mother called my wife to let us know he had died.

I think he was being given sublingual diamorphine 'jacks' along with methadone (although he had been using methadone for a while).

We never knew exactly what happened. Reason being that we didn't have his parent's telephone number and his partner was still bang at it and she essentially wanted not only his house, savings, assets and belongings... she wanted HIS parents to pay for HER habit. We had made it clear to his parents that she was still using and on Ross's dollar and recognized we could get her turfed out - so she cut all ties. What can I say, at least we HAD told his parents. But incredible that such a lovely guy was was being chisseled by the person he loved.

I still miss him.

It doesn't sound like he died from withdrawal, at least not directly. I mean if he was being given diamorphine jacks and methadone that would have mitigated the withdrawal enough to take him out of the danger range.

I am not saying it would be impossible for an otherwise healthy 32 year old to die from heroin withdrawal but they would need to cold turkey off a massive habit. If they any sort of opiate replacement like even buprenorphine it would help enough to keep them out of the danger of dying.

 

[4DQSAR]

It doesn't sound like he died from withdrawal, at least not directly. I mean if he was being given diamorphine jacks and methadone that would have mitigated the withdrawal enough to take him out of the danger range.

I am not saying it would be impossible for an otherwise healthy 32 year old to die from heroin withdrawal but they would need to cold turkey off a massive habit. If they any sort of opiate replacement like even buprenorphine it would help enough to keep them out of the danger of dying.

We did not get to read the coroners report because, as I mentioned, his partner ensured she contoled any contact between us and Ross's parents. I know he reckoned to buy a weight ever fortnight so my guesstimate would be he was consuming around a gram of H per day.

Then he got into treatment and a few weeks later contacted us from hospital to let us know that he was in hospital but hoped to be home within the week. Next day his mum called and told us he had died.

I heard it was because he had developed a heart problem which could have been mediated by the methadone but equally could have been down to the fact that he had been ill for a while but the gear masked the symptoms.

I've already mentioned someone else I know whose response to illness and injury was to just take more gear and how they have ended up in hospital and seem quite likely to die. Covid and two bacterial infections detected so far, STILL waiting to find out if them coughing uo blood for three months is TB. I think it might be better stated that opioids and methadone especially will mask symptoms of serious illness and malnutrition so if thrown into AWS, the sheer shock to the body may kill.

So I would say there may be an association but it's unlikely to be as simple as cause--->effect.

 

[pcplease]

If it worked for you, cool.

Unsure if one can make a blanket statement about dopamine. I do NOT experience euphoric from anything that increases the levels of dopamine in by brain. I feel frustrated with myself and just sit there waiting for it to stop. I'm someone who will hang out with adults who choose to consume dopamagenics and it's funny when, after being offered a line, I politely say no. EVERY time they add 'but it's free' as if they might think they were going to ask me for money. I realize I might do better to say I'm allergic - because dysphoria must surely be a sign of my brain saying 'this is harming you' so it's not a lie.

That opioids treat emotional pain is often overlooked. I suspect that is why some people are fine with them and some people are not.

Does this extend to all psychoactives indirect action, or direct things like stims, opiods?

 

[Kellsee]

There was a 24 hr surveillance video of a man dying in jail from methadone withdrawal that got leaked once for a short time. Theres several videos out there discussing times that this has apparently happened. But this was the actual video surveillance from the jail of the man literally dying. It was only out for a short time then it disappeared. But at the time that this happened just watching this video was traumatizing for me because it was back when I was still on methadone and also facing jail time. Thankfully I was able to get the judge to allow me to go to rehab first. But like I explained earlier I still ended up having a stroke. No doubt I would have died if I’d went to jail to detox. But this man had just been incarcerated over an unpaid traffic ticket. They put him on 24 hr surveillance because he told them that he was on methadone so I guess it was for the sake of their liability because it sure didn’t help anyone save his life. It shows his food tray being slid thru the pie hole and even them stepping in to get it back. At first hes just laying on the bunk and getting up to shit and vomit. He steps to the intercom several times but you can’t hear whats said. You can tell when he starts getting extremely restless. Toward the end he gets completely naked and just lays on the concrete floor. I’m sure he felt like he was burning from the inside out. It’s horrific. Eventually he starts seizing and convulsing. Finally people start coming in. But it was too late. I watched this man lose 15 lbs on video. I seen this with my own eyes. I wanna know who was suppose to be watching him and why the only time they responded was after it was too late. This actually really happened. I’ll never get over watching that video. Itll haunt me forever. I tried to make it go viral before they took it down. It reached a lot of people. But not enough. There’s absolutely no excuse for that whatsoever. That was a human being. Some mothers son. If that had been an animal there would have been rioting.

He could have had other health issues that contributed but still.

 

[vision conquest]

There was a 24 hr surveillance video of a man dying in jail from methadone withdrawal that got leaked once for a short time. Theres several videos out there discussing times that this has apparently happened. But this was the actual video surveillance from the jail of the man literally dying. It was only out for a short time then it disappeared. But at the time that this happened just watching this video was traumatizing for me because it was back when I was still on methadone and also facing jail time. Thankfully I was able to get the judge to allow me to go to rehab first. But like I explained earlier I still ended up having a stroke. No doubt I would have died if I’d went to jail to detox. But this man had just been incarcerated over an unpaid traffic ticket. They put him on 24 hr surveillance because he told them that he was on methadone so I guess it was for the sake of their liability because it sure didn’t help anyone save his life. It shows his food tray being slid thru the pie hole and even them stepping in to get it back. At first hes just laying on the bunk and getting up to shit and vomit. He steps to the intercom several times but you can’t hear whats said. You can tell when he starts getting extremely restless. Toward the end he gets completely naked and just lays on the concrete floor. I’m sure he felt like he was burning from the inside out. It’s horrific. Eventually he starts seizing and convulsing. Finally people start coming in. But it was too late. I watched this man lose 15 lbs on video. I seen this with my own eyes. I wanna know who was suppose to be watching him and why the only time they responded was after it was too late. This actually really happened. I’ll never get over watching that video. Itll haunt me forever. I tried to make it go viral before they took it down. It reached a lot of people. But not enough. There’s absolutely no excuse for that whatsoever. That was a human being. Some mothers son. If that had been an animal there would have been rioting.

He could have had other health issues that contributed but still.

This is shocking beyond words, I can only imagine the pain and sheer terror that man must have gone through.

I am sorry to hear that you had a stroke during your wd, how are you now, have you recovered?

I sincerely hope you have come good.

I have been on methadone for 25 years, I'm down to a reasonably low dose now, 57.5mg, but it's hearing horror stories such as these that cause my anxiety just thinking about trying to come off, even though I am planning on trying in the future.

 

[Kellsee]

This is shocking beyond words, I can only imagine the pain and sheer terror that man must have gone through.

I am sorry to hear that you had a stroke during your wd, how are you now, have you recovered?

I sincerely hope you have come good.

I have been on methadone for 25 years, I'm down to a reasonably low dose now, 57.5mg, but it's hearing horror stories such as these that cause my anxiety just thinking about trying to come off, even though I am planning on trying in the future.

I am so sorry because I should have thought about that before I shared such info. I know that panic and anxiety all to well and I’d never want to be the cause of it for anyone. My aim was to shed light on how inhumane it is for anyone to be put in this position to begin with. No one should ever have to fear being put in this kind of situation. The stress from this alone can undermine your recovery. IMO anyone that would allow this to happen or even be aware that it is happening and not be compelled beyond restraint to make sure that it doesn’t happen is ten times more in the wrong then any drug addict that Ive ever known ever has been. I’m sorry you had to read that

 

[Kellsee]

One of the biggest purposes of MAT is to allow you to be able to develop enough stability to begin focusing on actually living again. But just knowing that this is a possibility keeps a fear alive in you thats almost paralyzing

 

[vision conquest]

I am so sorry because I should have thought about that before I shared such info. I know that panic and anxiety all to well and I’d never want to be the cause of it for anyone. My aim was to shed light on how inhumane it is for anyone to be put in this position to begin with. No one should ever have to fear being put in this kind of situation. The stress from this alone can undermine your recovery. IMO anyone that would allow this to happen or even be aware that it is happening and not be compelled beyond restraint to make sure that it doesn’t happen is ten times more in the wrong then any drug addict that Ive ever known ever has been. I’m sorry you had to read that

No don't worry about it at all, this kind of thing needs to be exposed.

I didn't mean that your particular post was inducing anxiety, believe me I have already heard so many horror stories like this, it is important to educate as many as possible and advocate for those of us still on maintenence.

Please don't think you have made anything worse for me, I applaud people such as yourself who have gone through this and come out the other side.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

If you have adrenal issues and/or are corticosteroid dependent (Using them daily orally or injected.) then opioid withdrawal will kill you, you must wean off!

 

[Halif2]

Lots of good info here already, but seeing as I'm currently going through opiate WDs myself (for the 18th time or something like that) I thought I'd chime in with a "common/typical experience" (by which I just mean nothing extreme like being in jail going cold turkey).

As has been said, for most people opiate withdrawals will "only" make you wish you were dead rather than actually being deadly (like alcohol or benzo WDs can be). However, you can still fairly easily get into trouble which can require medical intervention, especially if you are detoxing alone. The common problems can include dehydration (from puking, shitting, sweating constantly), lack of nutrition from the inability or lack of desire to eat, and delirium from lack of sleep. That last one has nearly got me into trouble in the past when I drove somewhere and didn't quite realise how badly the lack of sleep had affected my reaction times. After a few nights of little to no sleep, your focus and reflexes may be about as bad as if you were quite drunk.

Your mental state will also take a beating - potentially severe - and depending on your personal tendencies (towards mood disorders independent of drug induced WDs, for instance) this could potentially be dangerous in itself. Risky actions (such as drinking a large quantity of alcohol / benzos / loperamide) can lead to accidents, and in some cases a person may even consider ending their lives due to despair and desperation.

Opiate withdrawals are a special kind of torment and, in my experience, they get worse over repeated experiences. Ideally you would have someone who can check in with you every day or two.

 

[4DQSAR]

Does this extend to all psychoactives indirect action, or direct things like stims, opiods?

Well, opioids are the most common class of medication prescribed in palliative care as it masks many physical symptoms and of course, masks the fear. People on very high doses of opioids are very occassionally prescribed a mild stimulant to offset the sedative effects of the opioids. But the short answer is that opioids mask the most.

I say this to EVERYONE. If you are ever arrested for any reason whatsoever, request to see a doctor the moment you arrive at the police station. Then if 'marks' suddenly appear next day, the police have some explaining to do. I also tell people to insist on an 'appropriate adult' being present. Because that way you have a witness to any interviews so if you are pressured into giving a statment, again, the police have some explaining to do.

Of course, that is the UK system.

I am aware that in the US, certain police officers seem to delight in watching people going into AWS. But I put it to you that any statement given while a person is in AWS can and should be thrown out of court. Because by definition, a person in AWS will say almost ANYTHING if there is a prospect of getting medication.

It's only by us ALL observing these things and acting that police officers will change their behaviors. Not because they care - but because there are witnesses and a paper-trail and boy, do bad cops HATE paper-trails.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Opioid withdrawal is not deadly in average, normally healthy individuals and in normal scenarios. We see a lot of the most shit going wrong inside county jails and other places of confinement. A person causes so much "trouble" asking for water that they get put on the silent treatment only to be discovered dead at a later time.

Methadone withdrawal presents unique challenges due to its long duration of action. A person could take a full 7 days off from work and, in theory, completely withdraw from Morphine/Heroin and already be feeling human again by Monday (I'm not saying feeling like fucking great but you get my point guys). You can go without food, sleep and take in only the water required to sustain life for ~96 hours or so, begin recovery and then continue until complete resolution around 14-21 days.

Methadone has an acute phase of withdrawal that is often stated at more like 8-12 days I.e. you could be severely sick for that period of time; bedridden. Then you start to recover but you're still gonna be nauseated, anxious, unable to sleep and wanting to die for at least a month before that "human" feeling starts coming back. What I'm saying is, you have to plan how you're going to go with very long periods of your homeostasis being severely fucked with.

It's my belief that this long duration, coupled with an already poor routine of self-care is what makes Methadone withdrawal so hard. It's not something you endure, it's something you have to manage while you're enduring it. You still gotta think about shit, go to work, pay bills etc. It's also what makes it potentially more deadly. However, this would still be an extremely rare occurrence in an individual without a serious pre-existing condition.