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Did psychedelics reinforce or change your religious thoughts?

GoddessLSD-XTC said:
"Ego death" LOL. Maybe you're a little more humble, humiliated but NO ego?! I always get a laugh out of this.

My dad (aged 76) claims to not have an ego. Recently he claims to have "awakened" but mom says there's no difference. I think my dad's ignorance is his bliss. Whatever, let him enjoy his life. I'm not out to shatter anyone's ego. (Iconoclast.)

You didn't find God on LSD?!

Uh, if the experience is sufficiently strong then it goes a lot beyond feeling humbled. Contrary to what you may believe it is possible to obtain full ego dissolution, it might not be permanent, but you could not live your life if it was.
 
>>"Ego death" LOL. Maybe you're a little more humble, humiliated but NO ego?! I always get a laugh out of this. >>

I have been misunderstood here. For a 2-hour or so period (subjective time not applicable), I experienced ego-death. It has not endured.

Did I see "god"? God doesn't seem like the right word. I was the universe but also did not exist. I still entertain the possibility, though, that what I experienced has nothing to do with the nature of "reality"....

ebola
 
Christian Soldier said:
I've taken lots of acid, salvia, mushies and all that. They have reinforced my beliefs that drugs are the work of Satan. Even before I was Christian, I could feel the evil, though it sure was fun!

Who's seen that John Safron vs God episode where he's exorcised? The exorcist was saying that drugs allow demons to enter you, I definatley concur. John Safron sure had a lot of demons!
Safran didn't say he believed the exorcism was "true". Notice he hasn't changed his lifestyle? To be honest, after viewing the show I was a little concerned because I couldn't reconcile what the exorcist was saying with what I felt in my heart, but now I am confident he is a charlatan.

I have read your view on drugs before, CS, and I always felt that you are blaming drugs for what is inside of you. Drugs, like any substance cannot be evil or good, nor can they be the work of satan - is panadol the work of satan? penicilin? Or do you mean only recreational drugs?
 
Of course panadol is the work of Satan, it eases the suffering God created in the world. It is anathema to God's plan for everyone in the world to suffer and so must be DESTROYED.
hehe
 
Both. Under the influence of DXM, I felt a malevolent presence that under Christian beliefs, was probably a demon. On the other hand, it may have been the drugs. I hope it was the drugs. I do not think it was the drugs. So that reinforced my belief in Christianity. DXM is the only drug out of more than 30 I regret doing, (that I have done intentionally) among many that have had more outwardly negative effects in my life. I would seriously advise anyone asking me to refrain from its use. I also felt this malevolent being/influence twice more when I was arguably sober (in other words no DXM that day but it was still in my system, and I was doing it most/every day.) I hope it was just the drugs.

Then I did 5HT2(a) psychedelics. Many and lots. I believe in God still, but I think he is a bastard. My faggot friends and my athiest/agnostic (were there a stronger epithet, I would use it) friends are more important to me than my Christian friends, and at least as worthy to go to heaven. I won't go to hell with my non-Christian friends, because it is pointless and will not aid them, but I only go to heaven to avoid eternal torture. So psychedelics have changed my religious beliefs while reinforcing them.
 
quiet roar said:
Safran didn't say he believed the exorcism was "true". Notice he hasn't changed his lifestyle? To be honest, after viewing the show I was a little concerned because I couldn't reconcile what the exorcist was saying with what I felt in my heart, but now I am confident he is a charlatan.

I have read your view on drugs before, CS, and I always felt that you are blaming drugs for what is inside of you. Drugs, like any substance cannot be evil or good, nor can they be the work of satan - is panadol the work of satan? penicilin? Or do you mean only recreational drugs?

It doesnt imply anything that he still hasnt changed his lifestyle at this point in time, it is still his choice to choose God even if he was free of demons. Btw, do you know if he's coming back to this series anytime in the future? I quite enjoy his shows.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

That's how I feel about drugs.

:)


Bible Study Notes...

Eph 5:18 -
And be not drunk with wine - A danger to which they were exposed and a vice to which those around them were much addicted. Compare notes on Luk_21:34. It is not improbable that in this verse there is an allusion to the orgies of Bacchus, or to the festivals celebrated in honor of that pagan god. He was “the god of wine,” and during those festivals, men and women regarded it as an acceptable act of worship to become intoxicated, and with wild songs and cries to run through streets, and fields, and vineyards. To these things the apostle opposes psalms, and hymns, and spiritual songs, as much more appropriate modes of devotion, and would have the Christian worship stand out in strong contrast with the wild and dissolute habits of the pagan. Plato says, that while those abominable ceremonies in the worship of Bacchus continued, it was difficult to find in all Attica a single sober man. Rosenmuller, Alt. u. neu. Morgenland, in loc. On the subject of wine, and the wines used by the ancients, see the notes on Joh_2:10-11.

We may learn from this verse:

(1) that it was not uncommon in those times to become intoxicated on wine; and,

(2) that it was positively forbidden. All intoxication is prohibited in the Scriptures - no matter by what means it is produced. There is, in fact, but one thing that produces intoxication. It is “alcohol” - the poisonous substance produced by fermentation. This substance is neither created nor changed, increased nor diminished, by distillation. It exists in the cider, the beer, and the wine, after they are fermented, and the whole process of distillation consists in driving it off by heat, and collecting it in a concentrated form, and so that it may be preserved. But distilling does not “make” it, nor change it. Alcohol is precisely the same thing in the wine that it is in the brandy after it is distilled; in the cider or the beer that it is in the whisky or the rum; and why is it right to become intoxicated on it in one form rather than in another? Since therefore there is danger of intoxication in the use of wine, as well as in the use of ardent spirits, why should we not abstain from one as well as the other? How can a man prove that it is right for him to drink alcohol in the form of wine, and that it is wrong for me to drink it in the form of brandy or rum?

Wherein is excess - There has been much difference of opinion about the word rendered here as excess - ἀσωτία asōtia. It occurs only in two other places in the New Testament, where it is rendered “riot;” Tit_1:6; 1Pe_4:4. The “adjective” occurs once Luk_15:13, where it is rendered riotous. The word (derived, according to Passow, from α a, the alpha privative (not), and σώζω sōzō - to save, deliver) means that which is unsafe, not to be recovered; lost beyond recovery; then that which is abandoned to sensuality and lust; dissoluteness, debauchery, revelry. The meaning here is, that all this follows the use of wine. Is it proper then for Christians to be in the habit of drinking it? “Wine is so frequently the cause of this, by the ungrateful abuse of the bounty of providence in giving it, that the enormity is represented by a very strong and beautiful “figure” as contained in the very liquor.” Doddridge.

But be filled with the Spirit - The Holy Spirit. How much more appropriate to Christians than to be filled with the spirit of intoxication and revelry! Let Christians, when about to indulge in a glass of wine, think of this admonition. Let them remember that their bodies should be the temple of the Holy Spirit, rather than a receptacle for intoxicating drinks. Was any man ever made a better Christian by the use of wine? Was any minister ever better suited to counsel an anxious sinner, or to pray, or to preach the gospel, by the use of intoxicating drinks? Let the history of wine-drinking and intemperate clergymen answer.
 
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This is an issue that really fascinates me, mainly because I cannot see how people can come to a conclusion completely opposite of what their experience should show them.

We have basic understanding of how our neurons react to certain stimuli (vision, auditory vibrations, etc...) to produce electrical signals that in turn create a cognitive experience. One would think that if there was a god, he would bypass this physics bound method of interpretation and show us something beyond our senses. Maybe materialize out of thin air, so we cant touch it but see it (a contradiction of senses that would imply supernatural workings).

Yet, when people take drugs they think it opens up a spirtual world or something. I mean, maybe its just me, but you would have to completely ignore the key fact to make that assumption! The DRUGS are altering your neurological processes so that instead of simply reacting to stimuli, your neurons fire when normal stimuli is absent (because of the action drugs have on your neurons to induce firing or suppression where it normally wouldn't occur). The things you see and experience on drugs are caused by the drugs themselves. Do you think supernatural entities are just waiting around for you to do drugs so they can reveal themselves? It is absurd.

That is not to say that one couldn't gain insight from the altered thought processes associated with drugs. Such as someone actually questioning religion in an intoxicated state instead of needing to believe in it. Or maybe an atheist considering god for the first time instead of flatly rejecting it. These reasons should transcend your period of intoxication and hold up to sober reasoning though. So if you are claiming that you can get closer to god only when fucked up on some psychedelic, I don't think you really want to accept reality in the first place.
 
Isn't that how you were TOLD to feel about drugs?

And in regards to Safran, do you not think he would run into the first church and be baptised if he truly believed what the exorcist was telling him? We are talking about eternity here, CS; nobody who truly believes would sacrafice their afterlife for a few years of fun.

I think Safran will probably do some other shows rather than revisiting the same topic.
 
I also think its funny how people blame drugs for bad behavior. I thought pharmacology argument had been disposed of long ago.

I have never met a good person who does a line of coke and suddenly wants to go rape a woman or destroy property. Its not like the coke is a sophisticated enough chemeical to implant extremely complex electrical patterns that would constitute a thought on such issues.

Instead, the drugs alter your normal inhibitions and feelings towards particular things. Instead of feeling a sense of dread and thinking it through before vandalizing some property, the person will only feel like what they are doing can't be wrong because they feel so good. Any reasonable person still won't do it because they realize their emotions don't make good judgement tools.

It is the idiots that ignore their thoughts and only chase after emotion that give drugs a bad name. This is the individuals fault for not practicing control, not the drug's fault.
 
No actually, I have always felt that mind-altering drugs were evil/demonic (particularly these ancient psycadelics) even before I was Christian. I had just done a search in my Bible just then to find supporting scripture for you.

And yes, there are even examples in the Bible of those who have seen God for themselves but still reject Him, I'll try to find those verses later. Also there was even a point in my life when I had fully believed in God, but I still rejected Him for my own selfish lifestyle. Not to mention the whole story of Lucifer!
 
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Enlitx; what are you talking about? Did I say that if you snort a line of coke you will go and rape a women? I'm saying that if you choose to live a druggie lifestyle, this will take you further and further away from God, and cloud your mind from the truth.
 
You claim to be a Christian, but "a druggie lifestyle will take you further and further away from God." So do you do drugs? Or do you just come here to annoy us?
 
You've only just stopped a week ago and now you're convinced that you're closer to God? In what way do you feel closer to God? How can you be sure that it was the drugs that were interfering? Unless you;ve put a whole lot of thought into this and had a good amount of experience to back it up, I don;t think you're in any position to tell us how to develop a relationship with God.
 
I'm not in any position to tell you about my personal expierences? Haha, thanks for giving me a good laugh at this hour of the morning :)

Do I really need to explain to you how my junkie lifestyle affected my relationship with God? Maybe I'll tell my story another time, but for now I'll just leave you with this verse.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
 
^ true, i was a bit fast to put him down there. i just think its annoying when someone starts spouting bible quotes to get across a point, but yeah his point was valid, although it seems quite obvious anyway.
 
Christian Soldier said:
I'm not in any position to tell you about my personal expierences? Haha, thanks for giving me a good laugh at this hour of the morning :)

You weren;t merely giving us your personal experiences. In fact, just a few posts ago, you said, "I'm saying that if you choose to live a druggie lifestyle, this will take you further and further away from God, and cloud your mind from the truth." To me, that sounded like advice to us, coming from you. And I said, that with only a week being sober, I don't think you're in any position to be giving us tips. And what is this truth that you speak of? How did you manage to hold on to your faith while being a junkie?
 
So don't be drunk. Why not use everything else, and just limit yourself to a beer or two?
 
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