Need Help Diazepam/Morphine taper help

[mauve]

Hello guys, a quick intro about me.

Been using diazepam since 2015, became dependant around 2018.

Current dose 40mg a day, 60mg on a bad day with (5mg morphine which I started 3 months ago due to lower back pain)

Drug use history is extensive would be quicker to write what I have not tried/used.

Alcohol free since 2018
Party drug free since 2017

Goal is to come off diazepam or atleast get to 10mg a day, and stop morph. Should I water titrate Diaz first and keep my morph dose the same? Or reduce my morph dose first?

Many thanks

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

stop morphine first it is easier

 

[mauve]

stop morphine first it is easier

Thanks for your reply, at 5mg morph would I be able to just jump or would I need to taper down. Never took opioids daily for this long

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I am no sure, I have never had to deal with opi WDs. But I guess so at least if you don't need to highly function.

 

[mauve]

I am no sure, I have never had to deal with opi WDs. But I guess so at least if you don't need to highly function.

Thanks for your advice , I'm sure it can't be worse than benzos

 

[Jabberwocky]

5mg of morphine is a lowest oral dose that can be given in tablet form. It is a similar dose as it is 30mg of codeine depending on how well you metabolise codeine into morphine. If youre arfaid to stop 5mg of morphine go to the drugstore and buy codeine that is mixed with paracetamol and caffeine. Start with 20mg (2 pills) and see how your body reacts. Then you can step down from really low dose of codeine without major problems cause you would see that it is not as big of a deal. Or try halving morphine tab (or liquid if u use it in that form). But in the end if it is oral morphine than stopping 5 mg will be more psychologicaly challenging than anything else. Taper diazepam.That is another beast and you are on fairly high of a dose. Take care and keep us updated!

 

[cdin]

Hello guys, a quick intro about me.

Been using diazepam since 2015, became dependant around 2018.

Current dose 40mg a day, 60mg on a bad day with (5mg morphine which I started 3 months ago due to lower back pain)

Drug use history is extensive would be quicker to write what I have not tried/used.

Alcohol free since 2018
Party drug free since 2017

Goal is to come off diazepam or atleast get to 10mg a day, and stop morph. Should I water titrate Diaz first and keep my morph dose the same? Or reduce my morph dose first?

Many thanks

That is not terribly long on the morphine, and at a very low dose. Taper the morphine first, additionally the diazepam will assist to continue sleeping during the process. I would simply half the dose to 2.5 for 4/5 days and then jump off. That is very low and I would be shocked if you feel much at all from it.
Then i would pursue titrating the diazepam -- be aware -- diazepam is insoluble in water, soluble in ethanol. I would make a fairly loaded concentration vodka solution so i could take less than 2ml of ethanol a day during the titration.
To titrate the diazepam, I would start at 5% drops, and see if that works. Let's use the middle point in your doses and say 50mg. 5% of 50 is 2.5mg.
So i would go: 50 - 47.5 - 47.5 - 47.5 - 47.5 - 47.5 - 47.5 - 45 - 45 - 45 - 45 - 45 - 42.5 - 42.- etc. etc. (I would take as many days as I needed to stabilize from the drop, usually it was 5-7 days)
every so often you need to refigure 5%. probably every 10mg or so. at 40mg I would start removing 2 instead of 2.5 (5% of 40). and continue in this manner until i reached 5mg. That is the point to jump off.

 

[RC-Lover123]

I wouldn't worry about that tiny dose of morphine. I doubt that you are dependent on it given the extremely low dose and the elimination half life of morphine. You are basically free of morphine for half the day anyways as 5mg are rapidly metabolized/excreted.

The diazepam is another matter. 60mg is a lot and you are badly dependent. However, from my extensive experience with benzos I would say that you could try to drop the amount very quickly. Try dropping the diazepam to 20mg per day or even to only 10mg and see what happens. I think that 10-20mg could be enough for you to not experience much withdrawal. There is no real downside for you, you can always swallow another pill if it gets too bad. It is not like diazepam withdrawal hits you like a truck or something, it develops over days and slowly gets worse as the metabolites exit your system. I think that you will be alright with only 10mg. By alright I mean no seizures, no severe symptoms, you will probably just be somewhat miserable, weak and sleepless for a while until you adjust to the 10-20mg per day.

 

[mauve]

Thank you thank you everyone! for your advice about morphine.
2 days off it now other than some gastric symptoms I actually feel better how strange?! More energy and appetite.

I agree with all that's mentioned my diazepam use, it really hits home when I hear it's a hefty dose. I've always been in denial it's not by comparing others who take more.

I've tried every method to come off and the only one that had me going the longest at the taper was micro titration I managed to get to 36mg in 2 months after stabilizing on 40mg.

After reading everyone's suggestions I think firstly I need to stabilise on 40mg and stay put for a month without any rescue doses to 60mg

Then decide whether to go micro at 2.5% cuts, cut and hold at 5% cuts or a rapid 25% cut and hold until stable at 20mg- have done that one before managed a month only

Alas will keep the thread updated

Many thanks again for the morphine advice.

Feel like a weight has been lifted ugh they need to discover non opioid painkillers for severe pain

 

[cdin]

Thank you thank you everyone! for your advice about morphine.
2 days off it now other than some gastric symptoms I actually feel better how strange?! More energy and appetite.

I agree with all that's mentioned my diazepam use, it really hits home when I hear it's a hefty dose. I've always been in denial it's not by comparing others who take more.

I've tried every method to come off and the only one that had me going the longest at the taper was micro titration I managed to get to 36mg in 2 months after stabilizing on 40mg.

After reading everyone's suggestions I think firstly I need to stabilise on 40mg and stay put for a month without any rescue doses to 60mg

Then decide whether to go micro at 2.5% cuts, cut and hold at 5% cuts or a rapid 25% cut and hold until stable at 20mg- have done that one before managed a month only

Alas will keep the thread updated

Many thanks again for the morphine advice.

Feel like a weight has been lifted ugh they need to discover non opioid painkillers for severe pain

In my experience, no matter how bad you want it to be fast - slow and steady wins the race. i would very much recommnd 5% maximum drops, with at least a week, maybe two of stabilization in between

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

I agree with the above. 5% drops of the diazepam every couple weeks would be the easiest on mind/body as far as withdrawals go. I usually reccomend 10% drops every couple or three weeks but with the option to up dosage if withdrawals become too uncomfortable. The withdrawals should be expected at each drop in dosage but the taper is designed to keep ones sanity intact, to keep functional and not to bug the fuck out.
All tapers will be custom as we are all different and activities vary greatly (nutrition, exercise, water intake, outside demands on our time etc).
Been through benzo wds a few times and the worst was a sudden cesation when I got locked up and was heavily into genuine alprazolam, methadone and roxy. This was the worst time in my life as far as wd-ing (2007) but not the last time I have had to drop benzos at high doses without tapering. I would not go through this hell again.
I am on benzo to this day but have managed to keep my doses at the point where most would/could jump off the benzo train and not lose it.
Just be patient in this undertaking and treat your body/mind nicely by eating well, staying hydrated, finding some activities that can be physically exerting and keep the mind busy with healthy activities as well... like meditation, reading/writing positive content, helping others that cannot do for themselves when an opportunity comes up and you can... stuff like that.
My best wishes/hopes with your endeavor. I believe that the most important part of dropping benzos is being strong and dedication (steadfast - I am a bit older so forgive the oldish word lol)
Battery about to die but hope to come back tonight if I dont fall asleep.
Peace

 

[mauve]

In my experience, no matter how bad you want it to be fast - slow and steady wins the race. i would very much recommnd 5% maximum drops, with at least a week, maybe two of stabilization in between

Absolutely agree with you, no more than 5%

I found cut and hold even at low amounts to be too much sometimes as it took my system time to adjust.

I think in the new year I may start, after a month stabilizing on 40mg.

The only method that has been tolerable was a daily micro titration. You sound quite quite experienced in this field.

What my plan is
20mg am

20mg pm (10mg pill) and (10mg dissolved in 100ml of water) then with a 10ml syringe extract 1ml and dash it in the sink and so on everyday 2ml, 3ml, 4ml, 5ml
So every 10th day 1mg is reduced this time I'll hold a dose if it gets too symptomatic instead of updosing.

once I get to 35mg mark will adjust titration rate but that's my plan

 

[mauve]

I agree with the above. 5% drops of the diazepam every couple weeks would be the easiest on mind/body as far as withdrawals go. I usually reccomend 10% drops every couple or three weeks but with the option to up dosage if withdrawals become too uncomfortable. The withdrawals should be expected at each drop in dosage but the taper is designed to keep ones sanity intact, to keep functional and not to bug the fuck out.
All tapers will be custom as we are all different and activities vary greatly (nutrition, exercise, water intake, outside demands on our time etc).
Been through benzo wds a few times and the worst was a sudden cesation when I got locked up and was heavily into genuine alprazolam, methadone and roxy. This was the worst time in my life as far as wd-ing (2007) but not the last time I have had to drop benzos at high doses without tapering. I would not go through this hell again.
I am on benzo to this day but have managed to keep my doses at the point where most would/could jump off the benzo train and not lose it.
Just be patient in this undertaking and treat your body/mind nicely by eating well, staying hydrated, finding some activities that can be physically exerting and keep the mind busy with healthy activities as well... like meditation, reading/writing positive content, helping others that cannot do for themselves when an opportunity comes up and you can... stuff like that.
My best wishes/hopes with your endeavor. I believe that the most important part of dropping benzos is being strong and dedication (steadfast - I am a bit older so forgive the oldish word lol)
Battery about to die but hope to come back tonight if I dont fall asleep.
Peace

Thank you! Keeping the mind busy and body mildly stimulated is key while in taper. Strangely I feel more tired when I'm tapering benzos.

I've been through cold turkey benzo wd several times in the past. The first few times I could just drop it without any problems. I guess once dependence nets you then your in trouble stopping it abruptly.

No one told me the dangers of stopping suddenly my Dr just said they can be habit forming. One New year's Day I decided to stop taking them. It took about 2 weeks for wd to kick in, I stupidly mixed stimulants and depressants without knowing I'm in the middle of benzo wd. Got rushed to the hospital stayed for about 3 days they dosed me up with so many things but I do remember diazepam given to me and I started to feel better. Now when I look back I was in benzo psychosis. After that I still didn't put benzos as the culprit I just thought it was the mix of drugs I took that day.

I started to drinking more after that. It took about 6 months of appointments and tests until I realised when I was in an inpatient detox and they gave me librium for alcohol withdrawal that I felt better immediately again after being given a benzo that I started to put it down to benzos. I asked them if this could be benzos causing this they said possibly and to contact my GP. Before leaving I was persistent in asking how to come of them so they gave me this generic paper on how to taper my dose a whole 40mg in 2 weeks! Crazy! Now when I look at it.

how did you manage to get down to the dose you say you can stop if needed and stay there?

 

[Lil'LinaptkSix]

how did you manage to get down to the dose you say you can stop if needed and stay there?

Well, I ran into a benzo (bromazolam) that could replace maybe seven dif "meds" I was taking to self medicate. Mostly I needed a strong muscle relaxer for some back/neck issues cause when they acted up I became incapacitated and had to takes days or even weeks off work until the "issues" eased up. Freakin prednisone and cyclobenzaprine worked after a few days but when I tried .25mg of the afore mentioned benzo I was up and on my feet in a couple hours and could get at very exertive tasks without any issues.
I usually drop .15 - .2mg in the am and at night. It is the bromide that does what I need for my worst physical issues. Seems there is no tolerance build to this atom... maybe? And past experiences with coming off benzos (it is structurally almost identical to alp) keeps me from gobbling it up from fear of having to go through serious wd symptoms. So I stay at this dose from dread. I do not really feel any of the anxiety relief but when I can move about at will with no serious aches and pains it is more relief than I need.

No one told me the dangers of stopping suddenly my Dr just said they can be habit forming.

Yeah same here. Was Rx-ed for decades with diazepam and alprazolam and never heard of tapering to lessen wd side effects until I came to BL. This fuckin community may have saved my life a few times and by proxy others. Definitively a lot of great information here if one can dig through and find it.

benzo psychosis

Been there what a fuckin bitch. I wanted to just rip my head off shit was so sideways. But not being into self harm (i kinda feel like imma decent ol chap and get told this from others I may associate with) but I know the last time I went through the alprazolam wds if a mf so much as looked at me I went thafuq off on em.
Stopped after that and was off for at least a year until I needed a break from some serious BS that I was going through.
Stopped for another year without any serious wds.
Sad now to look back at it all....
Sad that all the BS is still around and may have gotten worse but we are all struggling like a mf these days and just cant give up and run to the hills just yet because of commitments.

 

[Iamfreetoday1]

yes diazepam is king of benzos.basically if taking as was my case 3/4diff types benzos.then living in was just lost.then found real diazepam. bought a truckload.now can take only duazepam 10mg every 2nd day or week off week on.take it or leave it.now yo be able to have that choice I thought was impossible.no now I know it is very possible.govfor it.taper slow.win the race.i still take diazepam just not ever 50mg plus others.diazepam is the answer.