Is anyone here able to actually say that they have had withdrawals from these kind of quantities? So far I have heard no actual solid personal evidence apart from people who were taking 100x or so more than me. Mainly just lots of scare stories, with no evidence to back it up. While I am all for damage limitation, and encouraging sensible behaviour, people should be aware that if they go too far with this kind of thing they risk beginning to sound like "Talk to Frank" (UK) or "Just say NO"...
If you wildly exaggerate the risks, then people won't believe you.
Now, take Anon 54's post above. He was pretty much shouted down, although he is one of the very few people to have actually given personal testimony. One person even accused him of having a clouded mind from taking too many drugs, which I think is particularly low on these boards. Now, admittedly his grammar/spelling etc. is awful, but perhaps English is not his first language? Anyway, I feel as though someone should stick up for him, so I will answer the points raised by the subsequent poster myself:
1. "nothing will happen if u quit cold turkey. Id say the chance of having a seizure would be less than 1%."
This seems perfectly reasonable advice to me. For example, Prof Ashton herself says:
"People who have become dependent on therapeutic doses of benzodiazepines usually have several of the following characteristics.
1.They have taken benzodiazepines in prescribed "therapeutic" (usually low) doses for months or years.
2.They have gradually become to "need" benzodiazepines to carry out normal, day-to-day activities.
3.They have continued to take benzodiazepines although the original indication for prescription has disappeared.
4.They have difficulty in stopping the drug, or reducing dosage, because of withdrawal symptoms.
5.If on short-acting benzodiazepines (Table 1) they develop anxiety symptoms between doses, or get craving for the next dose."
...the list goes on for some length, and the only one I personally fit is number 1 (technically I don't even fit this as I don't use them "therapeutically", ie. every day).
And here are a couple of quotes from medical literature on the subject (easily found on google scholar):
"Instances are also reported within the high-dosage category of more serious developments such as seizures and psychotic reactions."
"The seizures were not considered to be a toxic effect of flumazenil, but many of them probably were due to an unmasking of the anticonvulsant effect of the previously used benzodiazepine or to a severe benzodiazepine-withdrawal syndrome"
etc. etc. Especially note: "high-dosage category" and "severe benzodiazepine-withdrawal syndrome". From everything I have read, I would say that it is highly likely that the chance of me suffering seizures at my usage levels is less than 1%. If you have personal evidence to the contrary, please tell me about it!
2. "valium is one that is was easy for me to quit. alot easier than than caffeine or cigarettes."
What is your problem with this? Are you accusing him of lying? Why would he lie about this?
3. If ya using more than 400mg of diaz a day for a few months than ya in trouble. but at least it valium.
Again I don't see the problem...this may be irrelevant to my personal case, but I believe he was giving an example of a situation in which you might expect to suffer severe withdrawals.
4. valium, temazepam, & valium.
Surely a simple typo? Does this really deserve to be highlighted?
5. its VERY ADDICTED but it's also VERY HARD TO GET ADDICTED TOO.
Ignoring the poor English, this is indisputably true. Unlike, say, opiates, it takes a while to get addicted to benzos. But as with, say, alcohol or GHB, the withdrawals can be much more severe.
Now, to the person who said "let's just say you get lucky and don't get a seizure, which is definitely a possibility. You will still go through mental hell"...here is some maths:
Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, that I have a very high "personal diazepam half-life". of, say, 84 hours, or 3.5 days (if we assume a lower half-life, which is likely, then everything I am about to say is more true). Then I can expect my blood levels of diazepam to halve twice per week. If I was taking 40mg a week, then I would stabilise on, roughly, a blood-level of 15mg diazepam. Now suppose I stop. Then within 4 days my blood levels of the drug will be less than 7mg. As I have done this many times and not felt any withdrawals whatsoever, we can safely assume that I am physiologically addicted to no more than a constant blood-level of 5mg. This is equivalent to taking less than 1.5mg diazepam per day (which itself is equivalent to less than 0.075mg xanax). Is it really a FACT that I will go through mental hell from quitting these levels?
I am honestly not trying to be a "tough guy". I simply want to know if I'm physically addicted or not. I don't plan to stop using valium completely, merely cut it down to levels at which I am not at risk of addiction.
Please...as much as I appreciate the concern, don't give scare stories just because you have had a severe benzo habit in the past and suffered for it. I'm looking for answers from people who have had small habits and quit.
Let's keep it civil shall we though guys?
