Dexamphetamine paradoxical effects: Need dexamphetamine to sleep.

[omegapoint]

New thread.

Anyone have had or having paradoxical effects from dexamphetamine or other amphetamines - ie: need amphetamines to sleep ???

from my other current thread:

MY PROBLEM IS:

1) Allergic to Benzodiaz ET.AL. No alpraz, clonaz, diaz....

2) Can not drink

3) NEEDING D-AMP TO SLEEP AT THE MOMENT DUE TO PARADOXICAL REDUCTION IN BP AND OTHER EFFECTS: ie my prob is if and when I have/do stopped I get BAD cardio etc THEN...

Need to REDUCE but whilst doin so: what can I use/take to help: cardio, twitches, electric-static-skin etc ???

Psych=FINE/OK (maybe bit 'slower' only as physical sympts predominant consciousness.)

Thanks.

Any ideas now???

Mr.Blonde: what about PH effects of Acetylsalicylic on d-amp, stomach, urinary, metab ???

ie: not COX/Th but other blood and metabolic effects???

Could Aspirin CAUSE more problems than its worth???

Maybe propanalol... Clonidine...

Want to try SEREQUEL which HAVE HERE but it causes ARRHYTHMIA no??? use as D1/D2 antag.... and Alpha/Beta ??? It also does 5ht/NE yes???
Anyone know why under LEFT ARMPIT? Feels like pulsing/harder etc like "bubbling" in vein/art. ??? Had for years. Just HARDER on d-ampx.

 

[Mr. Squiggle!]

New thread.

Anyone have had or having paradoxical effects from dexamphetamine or other amphetamines - ie: need amphetamines to sleep ???

from my other current thread:
Quote:
MY PROBLEM IS:

1) Allergic to Benzodiaz ET.AL. No alpraz, clonaz, diaz....

2) Can not drink

3) NEEDING D-AMP TO SLEEP AT THE MOMENT DUE TO PARADOXICAL REDUCTION IN BP AND OTHER EFFECTS: ie my prob is if and when I have/do stopped I get BAD cardio etc THEN...

Need to REDUCE but whilst doin so: what can I use/take to help: cardio, twitches, electric-static-skin etc ???

Psych=FINE/OK (maybe bit 'slower' only as physical sympts predominant consciousness.)

Thanks.

Any ideas now???

Mr.Blonde: what about PH effects of Acetylsalicylic on d-amp, stomach, urinary, metab ???

ie: not COX/Th but other blood and metabolic effects???

Could Aspirin CAUSE more problems than its worth???

Maybe propanalol... Clonidine...

Want to try SEREQUEL which HAVE HERE but it causes ARRHYTHMIA no??? use as D1/D2 antag.... and Alpha/Beta ??? It also does 5ht/NE yes???
Anyone know why under LEFT ARMPIT? Feels like pulsing/harder etc like "bubbling" in vein/art. ??? Had for years. Just HARDER on d-ampx.

No dude. OK. Dexamphetamine is a stimulant, pure and simple. The only reason that you would need it to sleep is to end your 3 day binge of 'dexy induced fun!'. Hip da fucking hooray! How can you be allergic to all benzodiazepines? Please start up a habit of these drugs. Try at least 6 mg Xanax, 4 mg Clonazepam daily. Why can't you drink? Underage?

Dude, you're having what we call in the business, an amphetamine induced psychosis moment. I don't know how long that it will last on you, but I hope not permanently.

 

[omegapoint]

No dude. OK. Dexamphetamine is a stimulant, pure and simple. The only reason that you would need it to sleep is to end your 3 day binge of 'dexy induced fun!'. Hip da fucking hooray! How can you be allergic to all benzodiazepines? Please start up a habit of these drugs. Try at least 6 mg Xanax, 4 mg Clonazepam daily. Why can't you drink? Underage?

Dude, you're having what we call in the business, an amphetamine induced psychosis moment. I don't know how long that it will last on you, but I hope not permanently.

Whats ur prob? Not very helpful to someone in this state - borderline (AS IN STRESS DUE TO TACHY ETC).. If I wasnt the type I am you could prob easily push a LOT of more drug naive people over the edge by being aggressive IF THEY WERE/I WAS in that state...

Well done.

It is not a 3 day BINGE: it is 23 day BINGE as of today...

No - not precribed and no, I am very aware of psychosis, my friend, and very familiar with DSM-IV diagnostic criteria etc as well as much else including having people with me right now for that extra check (lol) - I am FINE mentally.

Would I be writing like this if I was truly PSYCHOTIC? Not that intellect is necessarily diminished by dopamine flooding at psychotic levels BUT organization is...

23 days...

Not prescribed to ME...

Need to sleep or go into SHOCK, SWEAT, NON-PSYCHOSOMATIC state...

 

[omegapoint]

Paradoxical effect of stimulants (especially meth/amphetamines or methylphenidate) seems to be relatively common in people with genuine ADHD-HI, and can make them calmer. The Psychiatric nurse that I spoke to at the emergency department in the past said that he's seen several cases of adults with undiagnosed ADHD who were self medicating themselves with illicitly produced Methamphetamine.

Have you considered sedating antihistamines or Melatonin (order the real ones online from overseas) to help you in sleeping?

THANKS for reply. Yes I am thinking about doin that but not able to buy anything right now...

SEREQUEL??? INTERACTIONS??? Arrhytmia??? maybe try...

I am not using *TO* sleep but because WITHOUT it I get physiological symptoms which are NOT WITHDRAWL but BP goes up etc more like SHOCK...

Taking dex and I CAN SLEEP...

Want to taper dex down and STOP - ie: if no dex = no sleep at all. yes, I know, it is hard for everyone to GRASP THIS HERE.

I am aware no real physio-withdrawl and not claiming that either.

I am talking about para-amphet/hydroxy metabolites being used as fake neurotransmitter (NE) and then when such is replaced by proper NE after dose elimination (or reduction) sensitivity is increased and BP shoots back up. etc...

 

[omegapoint]

Anyone here GET what I am saying? Fuck... Anyone with biochem knowledge?

Thanks.

.

 

[omegapoint]

Dude, you're having what we call in the business, an amphetamine induced psychosis moment. I don't know how long that it will last on you, but I hope not permanently.

How on earth can you even attempt to make such a diagnosis? based on ??? LOL. And I thought I made them quick IN MY JOB...

We in the business you say ??? The business of wannabe-a-blulight-expert--but-I-am-full-of-bullshit YES... Just after some informative help, not usual board rubbish. Thanks mate.

 

[omegapoint]

Whats ur prob?

You are.
Not very helpful to someone in this state - borderline (AS IN STRESS DUE TO TACHY ETC).. If I wasnt the type I am you could prob easily push a LOT of more drug naive people over the edge by being aggressive IF THEY WERE/I WAS in that state...

Well done.

Thank you.

It is not a 3 day BINGE: it is 23 day BINGE as of today...

23 days of staying awake...Nice :/. Do everyone a favour and get some fucking rest.

No - not precribed and no, I am very aware of psychosis, my friend, and very familiar with DSM-IV diagnostic criteria etc as well as much else including having people with me right now for that extra check (lol) - I am FINE mentally.

No. You're not fine mentally. Otherwise you wouldn't be up for 23 days on a pharmaceutical drug which is given to kids by psychiatrists' and pediatricians. You are a drug addict.

Would I be writing like this if I was truly PSYCHOTIC? Not that intellect is necessarily diminished by dopamine flooding at psychotic levels BUT organization is...

Lots of people who are borderline schizophrenics experience episodes of psychosis during and after a massive binge on amphetamines.
23 days...

Not prescribed to ME...

Need to sleep or go into SHOCK, SWEAT, NON-PSYCHOSOMATIC state...

If you go to sleep now, there might be a chance of you not ever waking up again, due to brain death. It's been documented bro.

Another one bites my dust.

How old is this guy? Drug addiction, maybe... But fuck.

Is this common, mature, normal blulighter behaviour, really?

What a bad dog - intentionally trying to freak me out hey? LOL, get a life wanker...

 

[Mr. Squiggle!]

OKAY.

Lay down your specific problems in a coherent way and I will try and help you.

COHERENT is the key word here.

Start me off with a history of your drug intakes, followed by any coherent questions, okay?

Shoot!

 

[omegapoint]

omegapoint, you've been binging Dexamphetamine for 23 days?!

My goodness, you do realize (given that you have some knowledge of other aspects of bio/chem/pharm) that Amphetamines are tachyphylactic, in that tolerance to them builds up very rapidly, especially if you binge them recreationally for more than 2 weeks?

I imagine that Seroquel (quetiapine)would be very useful for symptomatic relief for someone who's having a Psychotic episode (especially meth/amphetamine induced) coz it acts as a Dopamine receptor antagonist. I dunno about your other drug use, or your weight so I can't comment on how much would be effective to treat a Psychotic episode in your potential case.

I know. I am an Idiot. yes 3 weeks basically. with approx 3 days sleep (ie: 3* 8hrs TOTAL , maybe). Eating = OK. And I do not think I am being INCOHERENT... Maybe bit rushed etc but fully coherent yes? wow... ok... yes I know - BAD SITUATION.

quetiapine maybe good for
antagonization:

D1, D2 5-HT1A, 5-HT2A, and Alpha.

but AHRRYTHMIC ?!? (previously bad episodes on it - can not really risk.) And Vaso= Serequel effects adrenal sys causing vasoconstriction and cerebral blood probs then. Feel like need maybe Phenothiazine (?). only as can not take Benzos. Alcohol does not work at all. GABA drugs bad for me. With GABA-as = will go PSYCHOTIC!

Propanalol? Clonidine?

Anyway - prob is if I STOP OUTRIGHT = no sleep at all. Simple as that.

So coming off slow but is bad work going on para-symp etc... Flushes, left side, etc... not like RUN TO HOSPITAL but weird fuzzy feelings... tight.

Can only do computer screen for so long then stop.
Yes, major (uni) in biochem/pharma & specifically BIOMEDICAL/NEURO-ENGINEERING in same place (Amazed) that you live.

.

 

[omegapoint]

omegapoint, you've been binging Dexamphetamine for 23 days?!

My goodness, you do realize (given that you have some knowledge of other aspects of bio/chem/pharm) that Amphetamines are tachyphylactic, in that tolerance to them builds up very rapidly, especially if you binge them recreationally for more than 2 weeks?

I imagine that Seroquel (quetiapine)would be very useful for symptomatic relief for someone who's having a Psychotic episode (especially meth/amphetamine induced) coz it acts as a Dopamine receptor antagonist. I dunno about your other drug use, or your weight so I can't comment on how much would be effective to treat a Psychotic episode in your potential case.

No psychotic episode....

Purely (strange/atypical AND expected/normal) physiological.

.

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ Hey brother, you're not 'incoherent' but rushed is probably right... I get what you are saying after rereading it a few times though.

This thread is basically the same as the first one, I might close this one and answer your questions in the first one if that's cool with you?

And also because Squiggle was being provocative in this one.

Also, calm down with the multiple posting a bit please.

 

[omegapoint]

^ Hey brother, you're not 'incoherent' but rushed is probably right... I get what you are saying after rereading it a few times though.

This thread is basically the same as the first one, I might close this one and answer your questions in the first one if that's cool with you?

And also because Squiggle was being provocative.

Also, calm down with the multiple posting a bit please.

Thanks, yeah, no worries. Sorry for multi-posts. Was bit "rushed" before.

Cheers.

Where will you answer/should I go?i get symptomology at END of dose

PS: this is only thread *I* started yes?

WHAT is going on if i get syptoms at end of run/dose life?

 

[Mr Blonde]

Thanks, yeah, no worries. Sorry for multi-posts. Was bit "rushed" before.

Cheers.

Where will you answer/should I go?i get symptomology at END of dose

PS: this is only thread *I* started yes?

WHAT is going on if i get syptoms at end of run/dose life?

Oh my god I am so sorry brother... I am so pinned right now and got you confused with that other guy and his dexamphetamine thread!

Oh shit... now I'm gonna try and find the thread I was thinking about where you posted.

ETA: OK, now that I have gotten my shit together, I decree that this thread shall stay open as the other one you posted in is a more general discussion of amphetamine and it's therapeutic uses, whereas you have specific questions pertaining to your situation right now.

r.Blonde: what about PH effects of Acetylsalicylic on d-amp, stomach, urinary, metab ???

ie: not COX/Th but other blood and metabolic effects???

Could Aspirin CAUSE more problems than its worth???

Maybe propanalol... Clonidine...

Want to try SEREQUEL which HAVE HERE but it causes ARRHYTHMIA no??? use as D1/D2 antag.... and Alpha/Beta ??? It also does 5ht/NE yes???
Anyone know why under LEFT ARMPIT? Feels like pulsing/harder etc like "bubbling" in vein/art. ??? Had for years. Just HARDER on d-ampx.

OK... acetylsalicylic acid is a mild acid and so may slightly increase urinary pH... but not by much. As a side not, making your urine more basic will increase the clearance of aspirin from your body.

As for the stomach and the rest of the gastrointestinal tract: taking aspirin long term will obviously put you at risk of developing an ulcer. If you are taking the aspiring for cardiovascular reasons, then all you need is 100mg or preferably 80mg, but as I posted in the other thread I don't think that the aspirin is going to help you that much.

Metabolism: Amphetamine is metabolized by the CYP2D6 enzyme, whereas aspirin appears to be metabolized by glucuronic acid and glycine so no interactions there.

Here is an interesting study though:

Protective effects of amphetamine on gastric ulcerations
induced by indomethacin in rats

Of course, what we learn from experimenting on rats can't always be extrapolated to people but still a good read.

There aren't going to be any real interactions between the aspirin and the dexamphetamine.

Propranolol and clonidine can both be used safely with amphetamine.

Those side effects you mentioned about the seroquel are usually found in patients taking it daily. That's not to say you won't experience them though, people always react differently to drugs. It does have effects on alpha adrenergic, serotonin, muscarinic acetylcholine and histamine receptors along side dopamine yes, and will probably knock you the fuck out.

But those symptoms with the left side of your body sound very troubling. Above all, I think you need medical assistance. I think the best idea is to go to a public hospital and tell them what's up before something serious happens.

 

[psytaco]

To the OP:

have you considering just biting the bullet and going in to see a doctor about what is going on and getting them to give you something to sleep? it would probably put your mind at ease knowing that you will be getting some help. Even though alot of people on these boards know their shit, we're not as qualified as doctors nor can we prescribe you anything. \

BTW, seroquel would probably be the go in your situation because of your allergy to benzos. You mentioned you are a student, I'm taking a guess and thinking Melbourne Uni. They have a clinic that bulk bills on cardigan st (double check the address), and often let you do walk ins particularly in a situation like this. The doctors there are pretty good and tend to treat people with drug issues pretty compassionately.

otherwise you could go down to emergency or the psych unit. 23 days with no sleep is really bad for your mental health, and your risking things like psychosis and panic attacks the longer you go without sleep. To be honest it sounds like you need to stop taking the dexies and take something that will knock you out - I imagine after some sleep all the somatic symptoms will decrease alot.

 

[belarki]

^ good idea psytaco. I'd swallow my pride and seek medical attention omega. Even if it's just to get some seroquel. Take a week off uni, get extensions on any due coursework if needed and rest!

 

[omegapoint]

omegapoint, if you want to try a phenothiazine for sleep, then use Phenergan (promethazine) as it was actually a prototype during the development of the phenothiazine group of Antipsychotics.

I'm guessing you study at Melbourne or Monash Uni...

Well done.

Thanks, was not aware of an OTC that was worth even trying. Cheers. .

My problem now is WHY do/did I get "electric shock" ("static") like feeling over chest, under left arm, neck-tight, etc?

To the OP:

have you considering just biting the bullet and going in to see a doctor about what is going on and getting them to give you something to sleep? it would probably put your mind at ease knowing that you will be getting some help. Even though alot of people on these boards know their shit, we're not as qualified as doctors nor can we prescribe you anything. \

BTW, seroquel would probably be the go in your situation because of your allergy to benzos. You mentioned you are a student, I'm taking a guess and thinking Melbourne Uni. They have a clinic that bulk bills on cardigan st (double check the address), and often let you do walk ins particularly in a situation like this. The doctors there are pretty good and tend to treat people with drug issues pretty compassionately.

otherwise you could go down to emergency or the psych unit. 23 days with no sleep is really bad for your mental health, and your risking things like psychosis and panic attacks the longer you go without sleep. To be honest it sounds like you need to stop taking the dexies and take something that will knock you out - I imagine after some sleep all the somatic symptoms will decrease alot.

BTW, seroquel would probably be the go in your situation because of your allergy to benzos.

Had sleep, and no, although symptoms did GO - they reappear with only 15mg D-amp.

I have had sleep, thanks.

Yeah, I am wondering if it is 50% panic attack? ie: I get it LESS when walking/active then sitting around.

BUT the electric shock/static-fuzz etc comes now with even small dose.

I want to know WHY.

BTW, seroquel would probably be the go in your situation because of your allergy to benzos.

cant use it: causes cerebral vasoconstriction and arrhythmic...

now I'm gonna try and find the thread I was thinking about where you posted.

ETA: OK, now that I have gotten my shit together, I decree that this thread shall stay open as the other one you posted in is a more general discussion of amphetamine and it's therapeutic uses, whereas you have specific questions pertaining to your situation right now.



OK... acetylsalicylic acid is a mild acid and so may slightly increase urinary pH... but not by much. As a side not, making your urine more basic will increase the clearance of aspirin from your body.

As for the stomach and the rest of the gastrointestinal tract: taking aspirin long term will obviously put you at risk of developing an ulcer. If you are taking the aspiring for cardiovascular reasons, then all you need is 100mg or preferably 80mg, but as I posted in the other thread I don't think that the aspirin is going to help you that much.

Metabolism: Amphetamine is metabolized by the CYP2D6 enzyme, whereas aspirin appears to be metabolized by glucuronic acid and glycine so no interactions there.

Here is an interesting study though:

Protective effects of amphetamine on gastric ulcerations
induced by indomethacin in rats

Of course, what we learn from experimenting on rats can't always be extrapolated to people but still a good read.

There aren't going to be any real interactions between the aspirin and the dexamphetamine.

Propranolol and clonidine can both be used safely with amphetamine.

Those side effects you mentioned about the seroquel are usually found in patients taking it daily. That's not to say you won't experience them though, people always react differently to drugs. It does have effects on alpha adrenergic, serotonin, muscarinic acetylcholine and histamine receptors along side dopamine yes, and will probably knock you the fuck out.

But those symptoms with the left side of your body sound very troubling. Above all, I think you need medical assistance. I think the best idea is to go to a public hospital and tell them what's up before something serious happens.

I have slept (chaotically but sleep is sleep for me anyways) and pretty much OK without d-amp. but want to understand WHY this happened after approx 15 days - ie: yes, too long but WHY/HOW chemically - what was depleted, missing, etc? was eating and getting SOME sleep. and wtf is this electrostatic fuzz over chest, tight-neck, weird beat under left arm but feels better with pressure?

Just want to know some BASIS for it then yes:

I will goto doctor.

Thankyou all .

ps:

starting to think:

1) Anxiety attacks (subconscious).

2) Cardiovascular Tachyphylaxis Pressor response: ie Accumulation.

ie: along lines of http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/content/108/2/224.short

combined with metabolite HYPOtension post-active-life-of-last-dose giving FALL then (redose) RISE...

3) combination of these 4.

4) Glucose and/or Glycogen level chaos.

5) Stress hormone release - busy busy busy.

Anyone have any info on 2) ???

when I eat and then have dex (with food) and am then ACTIVE = FINE.

But if sit around = SYMPTOMS. If not eat = SYMPTOMS.

Want to know WHY EXACTLY ?

Cheers guys. .

Main read here:

http://jpet.aspetjournals.org/conte....com/retrieve/pii/0736467989902631 [/quote]

 

[omegapoint]

Starting to think, the other day (and half-way atm) I was tachyphylactic based on above in that:

15mg d-amp, mane, empty stomach, caused massive (near 000 call and near DROP) ***HYPOtension*** after sleepless night+ big dose prior to.

Ceasing & seeing doctor - yes - I am !

Is tachyphylactic property of d-amp ONLY respective to certain components/effects of drug?

Is this semi/-common - to get to point where HYPOtensive state is caused on dosing?

How long does such TOLERANCE/TACHPHYLAXIS take to subside/return to baseline where dosing would cause original effect?

 

[psytaco]

I come from a psychology bckground so don't know jack about cardiovascular issues.

If i could hazzard a guess some of the issues with your cardiovascular system could be anxiety induced and hence triggered by even small amounts of d-amp.

firstly, why are you still taking taking it? It is obviously having an absolutely horrid effect on you. You have said yourself that once you stop taking it and sleep your symptoms reduce or cease. you have your answer, stop taking it. You mentioned you go to uni, you therefore have access to free or at least cheap medical clinics that can assist you with the symptoms you are having, and refer you to drug treatment/counselling or a mental health professional should you need. I suggest you cut out the amphetamines and go see a doctor ASAP. Besides, uni is back this week (at least at my uni) so if you keep this up you'll miss alot of class.

Also, no offence intended, but could you please write in prose. When you write like that it is quite difficult to understand, and you might get more people responding if they can read it better.

EDIT: If this heart issue is serious, and it may be, go to emergency or call an ambulance. Its not worth messing with, and no one here on bluelight can diagnose you or give you medical treatment if you need it. You'll be seen very quickly at the hospital if it is related to your heart. i think this issue has gone on long enough that it warrants some sort of medical intervention ASAP.

 

[omegapoint]

I come from a psychology bckground so don't know jack about cardiovascular issues.

If i could hazzard a guess some of the issues with your cardiovascular system could be anxiety induced and hence triggered by even small amounts of d-amp.

firstly, why are you still taking taking it? It is obviously having an absolutely horrid effect on you. You have said yourself that once you stop taking it and sleep your symptoms reduce or cease. you have your answer, stop taking it. You mentioned you go to uni, you therefore have access to free or at least cheap medical clinics that can assist you with the symptoms you are having, and refer you to drug treatment/counselling or a mental health professional should you need. I suggest you cut out the amphetamines and go see a doctor ASAP. Besides, uni is back this week (at least at my uni) so if you keep this up you'll miss alot of class.

Also, no offence intended, but could you please write in prose. When you write like that it is quite difficult to understand, and you might get more people responding if they can read it better.

EDIT: If this heart issue is serious, and it may be, go to emergency or call an ambulance. Its not worth messing with, and no one here on bluelight can diagnose you or give you medical treatment if you need it. You'll be seen very quickly at the hospital if it is related to your heart. i think this issue has gone on long enough that it warrants some sort of medical intervention ASAP.

Thanks.

I am going to doctor.

Just wanted to know details of d-amp tachyphylaxis: ie - how quickly it occurs, how long it lasts, etc.

.

 

[omegapoint]

10gm Tyrosine. Back to "normal". Can (if desired) get "high" and also, thus, no longer near tachyphylaxis. Amazing. On a day with little sleep...

Anyone else tried this - whilst ON d-amp ?

.