Bupe Delayed onset of Suboxone WD's?

[DustnRoses]

I looked around in the Suboxone megathread / Buprenorphine withdrawals megathread, and some people have been in similar situations, but not exactly what I'm looking for. I know WD's are not an exact science...no two people have identical withdrawal experiences...some of the symptoms that I have, you may not have, or the ones that are the worst for me may be the mildest for you. The thing that I want to know is how can you determine the onset of the WD's? The half life is fairly long, and I've read reports from people saying they start feeling WD's no more than 24 hours after their last dose. Others say their WD's don't start until some time around days 3-5, and they can last multiple weeks.

Is this all relative to the length of time that one used, and the amount used? So if someone has a big habit for 6 months - a year, switches to Subs for 6 months, tapering from 8mg per day to .5 mg per day, they will fall into the category of withdrawals that won't start for a few days, and last a few weeks? My situation is a very short opiate binge (less than one month) and short, quick taper with suboxone, tapering from 1mg a day to .25 mg a day over the course of 4 days. I know there is no exact science on this, but it seems like it's just numbers...hours, miligrams, etc. it should be easier to determine.

I'm on my 4th day of nothing, and feel like days 1-2 were the hardest. Today feels like the few symptoms that I was feeling the first few days have almost completely subsided...I still have minor chills occasionally, but nothing like coming off a serious OC/Heroin habit. My GI problems have seemingly gone away completely...and I slept for about 6 hours last night...the longest in the past 4 days. So am I in the clear? Or have I just not entered the real WD yet? I know WD's are not a worry for most people who do a one month binge, but I've been using opiates off and on for about 6 years, and experienced WD's more times than I can remember.
If anyone has any links or anything where I can get some good info. on the subject please share.

 

[StartedHydro]

Man I remember back in the day when you first posted here on BL as it was my first couple of posts as well in regards to opiates. Man, they(opiates) really fucked my life up hardcore. I lost the best job that I ever had or will have(90k base with OT up to 120k), after I lost my job my relationship with my gf of 6 years just up and left with her two kids(she was an opiate addicit as well and a nurse who would call it in for us), lost my house, my car and I had to move in with my parents. It's been pure hell. My girl took off with another man and is now living with him, I still can't find a job, living at home with parents at 35 is pathetic. I allowed opiates to ruin my life. It hurt so bad when my girl left when shit hit the fan instead of sticking by my side and helping me thru. Anyways, I got on Bupe again and started at 16mg a day and I'm down to 4 mg everyday now. I tend to notice if I really push the time for me to take my next dose to around the 50-60 hour range is where I start to notice the onset of WDs. I start to get an elevated heart rate, racing thoughts, mild depression. Then around the 70-80 hour range it gets more intense and then the chills, stomach, aches start to kick in, albeit not as intense as OC WDs but still way more than enough to just "will" it away by trying to put my mind to something.

So for me I'd say around the 4th day is where the WDs really start kicking in. I also think that if I take 4mg a day it's not really 4. I rail my Bupe, so if it's about a 50% absorption rate I'm really only getting around 2mg. I always keep that in mind with Bupe. I really wish since this medicine is DESIGNED to be for titrating purposes they would make 8, 7,6,5,4,3,2,1,.75,.50,.25,.20,.15,.10 not all those doses but the point being dose that are properly distributed throughout the pill properly as to take the guess work out of trying to split a pill up to lines for titrating. In the pill mass thread the 8 mg pill is around 2.5%(not exact forgot exact number) of 400 mg... Since Bupe is so potent it really really makes a huge difference in small quantities.

I'm ever considering talking to my Doc about switching to tramadol or codeine when I'm around 1mg a day, for 2-4 weeks. But, I know the law says a doc can't give opiates to maintain or ween unless the opiate is specific to addiction purposes, so I'm not sure how is will go along with it. I'd rather get the Bupe out my system by replacing it with a very very weak short acting opiate(opiod) and then WD from that.

Anyways, hope your doing way better than me.

 

[piebald]

^^^ im in the same boat, i live in my parents attic right now at 33, seperated from my husband, lost my job...etc...but fuck it im alive...I think bupe WDs vary soo much from person to person i stopped 8mg a day cold turkey and didnt feel anything physical at all, it was hard mentally but no sicknes

 

[sonic]

Speaking in general terms, the less you use the less will be built up in your system. In theory, that means you will start withdrawing quicker. I'm sure there is a correlation between your dose and how long it takes for you to start withdrawing. Once you reach the ceiling effect of bupe, the dose no longer matters, but at .25mg/day you were way below that threshold. You should be able to quit without too much pain. I'd expect you to only have moderate withdrawal at worst from coming off .25mg/day. You're in a good position. I think the worst of the pain is over for you by now.

The last time I went off sub I went from 12mg somewhat rapidly down to 4mg/day, then from 2mg/day for a week or two to 0mg. I did small amounts of tramadol and kratom after running out of sub. The withdrawal took about 24 hours to come on and it lasted about 7-10 days. It was relatively weak compared to other withdrawal experiences I've been through. Kratom really helps, but it also prolongs the withdrawal. There's a fine line between easing the pain of withdrawal and prolonging it. Personally, I'd rather have withdrawal for longer and have it be weak instead of having intense withdrawal for a relatively short period of time. Fentanyl and oxycodone withdrawal have been the worst for me.

 

[suessmayr]

I think that because you only used for a month and began and finished at extremely low doses the worst of your withdrawal is behind you. It would be different if you'd come off at, say, 16mg, in which case your WD's probably would not have even started. As it is, I think you'll start to improve soon, if you're not already.

S