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Degradation of Rave Culture?

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in the usa the rave scene finally went away (after declining for awhile) when bush was elected. i don't think anyone felt like partying anymore. also, it often seemed that the parties were a celebration of a change - a new way of life. that being computers and the internet. and yes, media absolutely killed raves. the media brought the sketchy, clueless, drugged-out people in and then they spoiled the vibe and then it was pointless to go.

thinking back, the rave scene had a pretty good run here as far countercultural movements go. i mean, how long did punk last in the late 70's/early 80's? how long did disco last?

also, for me, i'm 30 and doing E in public isn't really appealing anymore. i take it at home now.
 
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cool_cow said:
Umm Im not sure ware you guys are from. But in the last year. Raves around here have been getting better. With better DJ's, bigger venues, better light shows, more ppl in attendence and so on.... Im in Canada btw

yup im in canada also, (ontario) almost all my friends love trance and E and a great lightshow!
 
BilZ0r said:
The rave scene was built on being alternative, when it lost that, it lost itself... and it was destined to die from the start: It was a futurist movement.
I think it's because you're actually looking at the wrong area. Check out a bit of what's going on in europe (Suburbass live set - http://sondelombre.r3z0.org/Suburbass/Mp3/SUBURBASS-Jura-ssik Liveset-13.12.2K3.mp3) - it's pretty "alternative" if you ask me.

Happy hardcore has been pretty much always destined to be commercial music; it's about the only "hardcore" that has got the breaks, the girls, the money, the CDs ... it's all good, right enough, but it's not exactly ground breaking, anti-commercial stuff.

I tell thee, raves are about as dead as clubs are. If you read the Guardian (dunno the American newspaper equiv.) then yeah, sure, dance music is no longer of interest to anyone except maybe Milo.
I've just taken the attitude of "who cares?". I'm happy to be a nobody in their eyes as long as they don't stop me having my fun ... ;) %)

As Lloyd Grossman (nearly) says -- the clues are there, if you go through the keyhole!
 
All scenes are ongoing and dynamic; I could start whinging that the late 70's free festival scene changed into the rave scene that I wasn't as comfortable with, but I'd be aware that I'm being an old fart who can't accept that times have moved on...

1. Everything is better in hindsight. The music was better, the drugs were better, the people were better. You get the idea. It's the same in every scene. Eventually everyone either grows out of it and into other scenes, or gets a job in it.

Hindsight/whinging is what jaded old farts who can't hack it anymore (of which I'm one) are best at.

IT HAPPENS TO EVERYONE. ENJOY YOURSELF BEFORE THAT CATCHES UP TO YOU AND YOU'LL HAVE DONE OK... =D
 
WhatHappened said:
I often hear older ravers talking about the golden years of partying, or mentioning the decline of the culture with some sadness in their eyes. I was curious as to what kind of changes specifically brought about this "death" in the scene.

The old days (early 90's) in the UK were unique because only small numbers of people were involved in the scene ... that's not to say it was exclusive actually the contrary it was most certainly inclusive. The second summer of love was anyway. The first (late 80's) was more the fashion conscious brigade spilling over from the architects .. the gay scene.

The sadness is merely because it was the beginning of something very new, full of energy and love. If you were part of something which you consider special at it's birth it can be sad to look back.

I guess part of the reason was that it was truly underground and everyone did their thing for the pure pleasure. Raves were free akin to the London free party scene that still survives. The drug of choice was always MDMA and it was a celebration. Groups were very small and after-parties meant someone giving up their house to 50-70 people most of whom were virtually unknown. I guess at £20 a pill the same folks couldn't make it every weekend.

I don't think it has declined merely seen exponential growth and bigger parties/scene means less personal an experience. That's not to say it isn't as good maybe just lost some of those unique features. If you were never exposed to those unique features then you'll not miss them and other things will take their place ...party on have fun and don't listen to the grey haired nay sayers :p ;)
 
BilZ0r said:
The rave scene was built on being alternative, when it lost that, it lost itself... and it was destined to die from the start: It was a futurist movement.

So true
 
Where I live the first few experimental parties happened in the late 80s.. Didn't really happen enough to be considered a scene or a movement until the early nineties..

Continuously throughout the nineties it evolved in various forms. It came in waves sorta throughout the nineties with the arrival of different distinct genres. From what I understand and what is logical the whole mindset of the scene had to be different then. It was something new, something undefined, attracting experimental and open minded people. Once the whole scene is discovered and you can almost buy the lifestyle in a store, something is lost. However, to me the essence of it is just a movement of people who are into the music and trying to have a good time away from the mainstream.

Definitely existed an underground scene in one form or another all the way to the turn of the millennium. I had a blast as late as in 99 when i came into the scene, tho I was told it was nothing "real" like before. People claimed the scene was mainly just posers, easier digestible variations of EDM and drug-users compared to the early 90s. However it all really started to explode around 99 and peaked in popularity in 2001.. Drugs almost seemed mainstream and alot of people were in it for the wrong reasons obivously, attracting tons of destructive attention from the media..

Since then it is slowly dying out. Mainly due to police and authorities shutting down clubs and persecuting clubbers so intensively at these events that the whole idea of an underground and experimental and open minded atmosphere ceases to exist.

I'd declare the "ravescene" both as a club-oriented and a underground oriented scene as DEAD in Norway for the past 2-3 years.. Not enough consistancy in it to really involve, attract and recruit enough people over time.

What's left is mainly 25 year old + crowds at clubs spinning various forms of superficial house, on liqueour and coke looking for sex.

Occationally there's a party, but theres not really a scene or a movement thats possible to track down. There's just not enough happening due to a shift in trends it seems. A scene/movement needs recruitment and recruitment is non existant for the time being it seems. Kids are into bling bling, rap and hip-hop rather than going to raves and worshipping smileys.
Seems alot of the younger hard partyheads have moved onto the r'n'b/hiphop lifestyle these days.

Someone once said to me that the whole "ravescene" was the nineties. That what's left is only what used to be a huge movement, now slowly decaying and adding itself to history.

I was never quite able to forget that comment and it still bothers me a bit though I dont really believe it. Frightening thought, though I'm heavily involved in trying to promote quality events back on the agenda here. Once in a while some promoter throws a succesful event and it seems the same as it has always been, I can see the spark, the magical atmosphere and so on. It definitely helps inspire. Hard to maintain consistant and explosive clubnights here though, with the police acting like nazis.

Somehow I think its all a matter of recruitment and managing to market the scene correctly and to the right people. You need a certain amount of mainstream appeal even for an underground scene to live.

Wandered a bit off here maybe, but this is Norway as i see it anyway..


peace :)
 
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it might be the change of music? old skool happy hardcore? now its nu-skool..new style hardcore .. maybe thats a factor.?
and yea most people who go raving .. just go for the drugs..when it shoukld be for the music..me personally i love my hardcore music...from uk hardcore to gabber :p
 
I've been going out for nine years now, I would actually say "Rave Culture" is probably better than it has ever been. If you are talking about Raves, where "Hardcore" is played, then, yeah, in a lot of peoples opinion, Hardcore has gone cheesy, and uninteresting. But the culture is as good as has always been, from my perspective.

Its the age old human trait, "It was in the past, and therefore, its better."
 
North America, esp in Toronto, seems strong enough here, party ever weekend
 
Party does not equal rave.

I'm talking people with glow sticks, candy, vicks, MDMA, more candy, other stupid things which glow....
 
BilZ0r said:
Party does not equal rave.

I'm talking people with glow sticks, candy, vicks, MDMA, more candy, other stupid things which glow....

and those colorful braclets..necklaces and suckers(dummyz) :p
 
please keep in mind that EVERY human social movement started as "alternative." And that EVERY one of those movements has people that think the movement was better in the past. Hippies think their movement was best in the 60's(when less people were in it for the drugs). Christians think that christianity was corrupted when it became the mainstream religion of the roman empire under constintine. In both cases they are wrong. There was never a time when either of these movements had a "golden age". There was always screwed up people doing stupid things in both movements. The rave is no different. So, stop complaining about how the past was better and try to make the future the way you want it. Anything else is a waste of breath. Nobody has a time machine.
 
just enjoy what we have, its our scene. we all go for it for enjoyment, that place where were all so open with each other where the musics pounding away and people are screaming in euphoria and hugging each other. might as well live up life as much as possible
 
Anyone ever notice the way old people tell their stories of glory?
>> yet we only feel and identify with them deeply
....if we can lose ourselves in their awe inspiring tales "of the glory days"..from their perspective.

...the wars, roaring 20's (yay for more public toilets too) ...the rock and roll 50's, hippy 60's!...ugly fabric and furniture, disco 70's
... read their eyes, hear their folklore, see their memorabilia, experience the entire recreation!! let the memories of the forefathers live on.....

Rave On
 
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please keep in mind that EVERY human social movement started as "alternative."
What? Every human social movement may have started out as a minority movement, but that doesn't make it truly "alternative" in regards to the fact that it was a counter culture. Hip-hop culture isn't defined by being alternative... National Socialism wasn't defined by being alternative... heaps of movements, although of course, starting as minorities, did not have the notion of being alternative hard wired into their presence.
 
Things change. I'd say the height of the rave scene in the US was around 99'-00' and not only included undergrounds, but massives like Metropolis and the first (2?) cyberfests. Very young children going to these parties, dropping ecstasy, and being hospitalized or worse drew insane amounts of negative media attention and rapidly split raving into two separate but synergetic parts: crime and commodity.

-AA
 
BilZ0r said:
Party does not equal rave.

I'm talking people with glow sticks, candy, vicks, MDMA, more candy, other stupid things which glow....

Im talking about those(hulla, goodfellaz, etc), since those kind of raves are the only ones I go to :)...
 
If a bunch of close friends get together and throw parties, and keep saying "how great it was!" to others, it may convince others to have a better opinion on this subject...
Every time i talk to a non raver, and ask them if they wanna go to a rave on the weekend... alot of them say "sorry, i don't do drugs"
This gets me infuriated.
The media is mostly to blame, other wise how else would other non-ravers be so sceptical about it? they go to hip hop parties which aren't nearly as welcoming as raves.
 
Blue_Phlame said:
Every time i talk to a non raver, and ask them if they wanna go to a rave on the weekend... alot of them say "sorry, i don't do drugs"

A Rave without drugs is like a pub without beer .... *shrugs*
 
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