Opioids Defeating the new OC time release

[puffj]

i loved snorting them as much as the next person, but if i take 3 of the new OP80s and it equals out to a LONGER and just as good high, then i think its a win situation, no? People are already saying that peopel are selling them for 20 a piece.

Using an ER formulation for abuse is not ideal. You cannot quickly "bump" or up the dosage to get the "right feeling" since metering dosages isn't possible. If you don't feel high enough and can only eat another 80, you will wait 3 hours to notice any real differences but by that time you might have metabolized enough of the original 80 that you don't. The thought of having to be high for 12 hours or not at all is not appealing to me. Not all of us want to be nodding 12 hours a day, and not all of us want to be high at all around the clock.

Instant releases work infinitely better for getting high on for all those reasons and more.

I think if you want to be able to snort these things, you had better find something else. Even if you could extract the OC in an aqueous solution, you'd likely only be able to eat it or bang it. Of course you could always put these pills in an acidic environment for 12+ hours, then remove the gel and put the solution in a nasal spray bottle where you would have 80mg OC per however many ml's of solution you used.

But honestly, what made OC so appealing was you got it, crushed it, and did your thing with it. There was no 12 hour waiting period, no complex process involved in extraction, etc etc. Now there is, and that isn't ideal for usage.

Unless purdue brings the old formulation back, or someone releases good generics that are abusable (if a generic company is smart, they'll do this), I think OC is done.

It really is sad

 

[dokomo]

Using an ER formulation for abuse is not ideal. You cannot quickly "bump" or up the dosage to get the "right feeling" since metering dosages isn't possible. If you don't feel high enough and can only eat another 80, you will wait 3 hours to notice any real differences but by that time you might have metabolized enough of the original 80 that you don't. The thought of having to be high for 12 hours or not at all is not appealing to me. Not all of us want to be nodding 12 hours a day, and not all of us want to be high at all around the clock.

Instant releases work infinitely better for getting high on for all those reasons and more.

I think if you want to be able to snort these things, you had better find something else. Even if you could extract the OC in an aqueous solution, you'd likely only be able to eat it or bang it. Of course you could always put these pills in an acidic environment for 12+ hours, then remove the gel and put the solution in a nasal spray bottle where you would have 80mg OC per however many ml's of solution you used.

But honestly, what made OC so appealing was you got it, crushed it, and did your thing with it. There was no 12 hour waiting period, no complex process involved in extraction, etc etc. Now there is, and that isn't ideal for usage.

Unless purdue brings the old formulation back, or someone releases good generics that are abusable (if a generic company is smart, they'll do this), I think OC is done.

It really is sad

It's actually a great thing for legit chronic pain people. The medicine actually works properly for the first time, which will help a lot of people. And decreasing the abusability will help prevent people from becoming inadvertently addicted.

Sucks for us recreational users or the addicts out there but it's hardly sad.

 

[cryan]

Does this effect the 30mg oxys too? And does anyone know if these have hit Vegas yet? I am jc cuz I have been outta the scene for a while now in Vegas, but I'm really sad cuz for my bday I was gna get a few of these and now this happens right before. =( And I HIGHLY doubt Imma convince my man to let my score some smack just for the bday, hah.

 

[anonymous1419]

Just got back from vacation and this was the first news I received. Needless to say I wasn't too happy. Seems they've hit the streets here in northwest Ohio and prices for the remaining "old" 80s have skyrocketed. And after they're gone, well, they're gone.

This is terrible news.

 

[Nikolai]

Seems like the new OC's are garbage, the demand for roxi's among oxycodone users will now skyrocket. I was expecting the new OC's to be much like Opana ER's, but it seems they are far worse. I wonder if extraction can be performed on the new OC's.

 

[sweetstufflover]

Yes, it can be extracted. At first, the polymer has to be removed. Then extract with an a/b extraction. It's a little bit complex. Meth-cooks do it with pseudoephedrine pills like this. They also have to remove the polymer that gels up, then extract the drugs.

I could think of some smart dealers buying all the oxycontin, extracting all the oxycodone, cutting it to a certain level and selling it as oxy-heroin, even more overprized than it was with the old OC's.

 

[sixpartseven]

Purdue just created a new generation of heroin addicts. Way to go, guys!

Seriously, I understand not wanting to encourage the abuse of your pharmaceutical products, but I don't understand why Purdue and the FDA and all the others involved with pushing out a product like this still believe that drug use can be totally eradicated. It will NEVER happen. I rather have a few (thousand) people abuse my product rather than drive them all to heroin use (or whatever else they can get their hands on in place of OxyContin). It's a never ending game of one-upping one another: Purdue makes OC harder to abuse, we find a way around it. In the mean time, they are finding a new way to prevent the abuse of OC while we crack the previous version, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. It's a waste of time and money and effort and....

But, the day that happens is the day drug use is completely eradicated. Both are just as likely an outcome.

 

[phr]

Just a thought, with that graph someone posted... if you just took 3 OP80s ($20 each ), it would give you the same high as an insufflated OC80 ($60) for a much longer high.. no?

Theoretically, yes. BUT, since you're never sure exactly how much of the time release you're defeating, and therefore how much will get absorbed, it's a dangerous proposition. Not recommended at all, unless the total dose, assuming 100% instant release is below your typical dose.

wasn't there a rule about no prices outside the price thread?

Yeah, but they're left in based on our discretion. If it's pertinent information, especially regarding hr, we'll leave it.
Prices aren't hr related in this thread, but they're interesting, insofar as how they'll affect illicit OC prices that have always been notoriously high and arguably inflated. If price discussion gets out of hand we'll get rid of it.
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Nice job with post 122, puffj.
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Anyone know if the pharmacodynamics have changed? Specifically the onset and BA when taken properly?

 

[anonymous1419]

Purdue just created a new generation of heroin addicts. Way to go, guys!

Seriously, I understand not wanting to encourage the abuse of your pharmaceutical products, but I don't understand why Purdue and the FDA and all the others involved with pushing out a product like this still believe that drug use can be totally eradicated. It will NEVER happen. I rather have a few (thousand) people abuse my product rather than drive them all to heroin use (or whatever else they can get their hands on in place of OxyContin). It's a never ending game of one-upping one another: Purdue makes OC harder to abuse, we find a way around it. In the mean time, they are finding a new way to prevent the abuse of OC while we crack the previous version, and the cycle repeats itself over and over. It's a waste of time and money and effort and....

But, the day that happens is the day drug use is completely eradicated. Both are just as likely an outcome.

I highly doubt they did it in the sake of abuse prevention. It's all about the patent, so they can sit back and collect a few more million/billion? dollars. Those greedy motherfuckers.

 

[brutus]

^ Don't forget they were being pressured by the government to come up with an abuse proof pill.

Good thing to know that my dealer is refusing to buy the new 80s, just sucks to be broke and piles of OC that I may never see agiain.

 

[villian]

Really it's a win-win for Perdue.

Not only did they get to extend their patent, but my guess is since the anti-abuse features of this pill seem to work so well that doctors would now sooner prescribe Oxycontin then some of the other high dose opiates.

In the past some doctors would not prescribe Oxycontin at all due to the negative media attention, I'm sure some of these doctors will now prescribe Oxycontin.

Also, I bet a doctor would be more likely to request that only the name-brand be prescribed instead of the more abuse-able generics that were (still are?) on the market.

I can only see Perdue's market saturation increasing because of this move, not to mention that its good PR for them to able to claim their medication is much more difficult to abuse.

 

[svacheme3]

The worst part of all of this, is I got my script last week, but didn't have the money to start getting some of it filled till this Monday, at which point the only pharmacy around here that does partial fills (pick up some now, some the next day, etc) was out of the old ones, and has to wait for the new ones that come in a week from now. Now the number of places that have the old ones are rapidly dwindling while I try in vain to come up with the $1700 to fill them all at once, but no one I know has that kind of money on hand

 

[jamesBrown]

$1700???? How many OC's are you prescribed and at what dose???

Ive never heard of such an expensive prescription.

 

[puffj]

$1700???? How many OC's are you prescribed and at what dose???

Ive never heard of such an expensive prescription.

Probably the standard prescribing habit for OC. 1 tab BID. 60 tabs and at that price I would assume 80's. Unfortunately, for people who don't have good insurance OC is ungodly expensive. Depending on the pharmacy, a cash-price for 60 80mg's is between 1600 - 1800.

This is coming from someone who filled prescriptions

 

[cryan]

Probably the standard prescribing habit for OC. 1 tab BID. 60 tabs and at that price I would assume 80's. Unfortunately, for people who don't have good insurance OC is ungodly expensive. Depending on the pharmacy, a cash-price for 60 80mg's is between 1600 - 1800.

This is coming from someone who filled prescriptions

That is some FUCKED UP shit. I am just so disgusted about this whole thing. I almost wish someone who could do something about this (the new OC's and ridiculous prices for the uninsured) would come read this thread. I mean how sad is it that

A) the people who truly need the meds have to pay 1600/mo for their scripts (thats almost 2x what youd make on min wage here in nv!!) And
B) This move on creating an abuse proof pill is only inadvertently turning more people into heroin-addicts. I hope (but do not believe) that they soon realize this and take active steps to correcting it.

In another RC forum I read about a new opiate that would be amazingly effective in relieving pain but yet would not build a tolerance. THIS is what drug company's need to invest in, not this garbage.

 

[dokomo]

Probably the standard prescribing habit for OC. 1 tab BID. 60 tabs and at that price I would assume 80's. Unfortunately, for people who don't have good insurance OC is ungodly expensive. Depending on the pharmacy, a cash-price for 60 80mg's is between 1600 - 1800.

This is coming from someone who filled prescriptions

Dunno what pharmacy you're talking about, but 60 80mg OxyContins are $861 from Drugstore.com. ANYONE can fill there with a prescription, so if someone here is paying double that price for the same meds I'd highly recommend it.

edit - and if you need more than that, Opana might be a good option if you don't have insurance. There are discounts that can make it as cheap as $5 per month.

 

[villian]

B) This move on creating an abuse proof pill is only inadvertently turning more people into heroin-addicts. I hope (but do not believe) that they soon realize this and take active steps to correcting it.

How is it the responsibility of a company to make sure addicts have an easy pill to abuse to get high? The new formulation simply makes sure users have to take it as prescribed (one long-acting dose of medication)

As far as turning people on to heroin, I have met *many* people who abuse opiate medications and would never touch heroin.

It blows my mind how many people here think they are somehow entitled to easy to abuse high-dose oxycodone pills.

 

[cryan]

They are taking it on as their responsibility though. If they weren't there'd be no sense in spending $$ on research to reformulate their product into something with less abuse potential and then simply throw away thousands of dollars worth of old meds. This wont effect people taking it legitimately and as prescribed, hopefully. All I am saying is that they think they are doing good, by creating something harder to abuse, but this is a harm reduction website, I'm sure most of us can agree that popping pills is slightly less bad than doing heroine in any form, but yet with something harder to abuse to get high they'll turn to what works - heroin. So inadvertently they are doing more harm, ESPECIALLY if this negatively effects the pain relief pain mgmt patients receive.

You knwo what, scratch all that. I do not honestly think they are doing this for the poor pain mgmt patients or the poor junkies. It's all for marketing. But the company is no doubtedly hiding behind the scheme of doing it so that less people will become addicted to it, a facade of caring. But that facade is less credible when instead of preventing people from becoming addicted it takes the current people who are addicted and turns them to the streets. Perhaps it will be effective in preventing future generations from becoming addicted. We've been given up on. =P

The comment you quoted me on does sound silly tho, now in retrospect.

 

[dokomo]

They are taking it on as their responsibility though. If they weren't there'd be no sense in spending $$ on research to reformulate their product into something with less abuse potential and then simply throw away thousands of dollars worth of old meds. This wont effect people taking it legitimately and as prescribed, hopefully. All I am saying is that they think they are doing good, by creating something harder to abuse, but this is a harm reduction website, I'm sure most of us can agree that popping pills is slightly less bad than doing heroine in any form, but yet with something harder to abuse to get high they'll turn to what works - heroin. So inadvertently they are doing more harm, ESPECIALLY if this negatively effects the pain relief pain mgmt patients receive.

It helps pain patients, because the pills actually WORK properly for once. Better, longer lasting pain relief.

No company makes ANY product without profit in mind (and largely, that's ok.) They've been constantly sued and blamed for addiction, dependence, and deaths associated with having insufficient abuse-protection. Given these facts, it's kind of pointless to get all indignant and self righteous about them largely IMPROVING their product and shielding themselves from further liability.

 

[phr]

Alright, let's please get back on topic.

We don't want to start getting rid of posts.



If you want to discuss the why this was done or the implications, please find a thread about it in DiTM.