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Edibles Decarb-ing and butter

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RedRum OG

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So, a long time ago, I used to make my edibles by just simmering bud in butter and water for a few hours, and then baking the butter in something. Seemed to work fine


Nowadays, it seems the consensus is there is a third step. First you bake the bud in the oven, then simmer it in butter. I dont understand why this isn't redundant. Isn't simmering it in the butter and water decarb-ing it?
 
Isn't simmering it in the butter and water decarb-ing it?
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You're correct. Decarboxylation doesn't need to be done in a strictly seperate step. Heating cannnabinoid acid precursors in butter (THCA, CBDA) will work just as well to convert them to the active substances (THC, CBD).
 
sekio said:
You're correct. Decarboxylation doesn't need to be done in a strictly seperate step. Heating cannnabinoid acid precursors in butter (THCA, CBDA) will work just as well to convert them to the active substances (THC, CBD).
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So, do you know why 9/10 articles seem to include that step now? Is it because the new noob/normie market of suburban moms are now making edibles and they're making shit all weird? I'm very confused, it seems to have changed dramatically from 5-10 years ago
 
Probably because an extra step makes it even harder to mess up. Some people need very specific recipes or they lose confidence and have no clue what to do. Thinking on your feet and adaptability are not in demand any more I guess.
 
I actually looked into this myself the other day. It seems like the instructions frequently mention 103 - 130 C as the temp you want to hit, for about 8 hours, some have suggested 12 hrs at a low temp.

So, living in an apartment, smell is a thing I'm trying to control. So my next best plan was to buzz up the weed to powder, toss it in one of my small mason jars with a measured amount of coconut oil, and throw it in the crock pot on top of a roast and leave it for about 8 hrs. Just let the fucker cook all damn day. Once the roast is done, maybe just take the mason jar out and do a little double boiler situation on the stove with light heat for the remaining hours if it hasn't finished just yet. It's my understanding that it browns slightly when decarboxylated, so I would imagine a color change would be a decent indicator of completeness? Anyway..

I've heard frequently that people use the crockpot to do huge batches of coconut oil infusion, I wouldn't even bother filtering out the solids seeing as it's being eaten anyways. Some of the unit conversions I was given were:

The bud weight x 0.2 to approximate the mg dose of THC per unit volume (10 grams = 2000 mg THC, or 1 gram = 200 mg THC, just for some numbers to work with dose wise)
And obviously write down the weight of the coconut oil added.

Do a ratio conversion to figure out what volume (or weight) of CC oil = what dose of THC (weight of oil / {bud weight x 0.2} = volume to mg ratio), also I was told about 20 mg is a typical dose, and using the conversion given that works out to about 1/10 th of a g I think.. I'll have to actually writ some shit down.
I'll try out the equivalent of 5 - 10 mg, since I'm a "one puff" kinda guy, and that corresponds to 1/40 to 1/20 th of a gram of herb. Ya, 20 mg would be 1/10th... because 20 x 10 is 200, and 1 gram of bud is about 200 mg of THC using this crude conversion.

If there is a simpler way, I haven't found it yet. Also, I haven't tried this yet but I suspect it should work just fine seeing as people use the crock pot pretty regularly for this, having everything sealed in a separate jar inside the crock pot would fix the smell issue and make use of the rest of the heat, instead of running a whole crock pot for one tiny mason jar with a half cup of oil and like 11 grams of bud.

Thoughts?
 
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The only one that spings to mind is: don't heat sealed mason jars. They're not pressure-tested and can go POW if pressure builds up, sending glass shards everywhere.
 
That's how you pickle things. Boiled in mason jars filled with fluid. Filled with just expanding gasses, sure I'd be concerned. But with just a small volume of air at the top with the remaining volume being oil, I couldn't see how that might be an issue especially seeing as the oil wouldn't have a tendency to want to evaporate, unlike even pickled goods (mostly vinegar and salt water)


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Also, you know the "freshness seal" button? It won't become inverted without the boiling process. The gas expands, then contracts upon cooling sucking the lid tight creating a vacuum strong enough to invert the button. Which is an indication of whether or not you may want to eat something out of a mason jar thats been in storage. Button out = don't eat usually.

I mean, I could be wrong, but this is all pre experiment speculation. I've yet to verify this by risking a whole roast alongside my experimental weed decarb.. thingy. The input is appreciated none the less , makes me consider the risk of losing a few lbs of meat to something that could be tested separately
 
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Damn, you're right. My mother and grandmother used to can fruits, hot pepers, and salsa. Or course you can boil the mason jars, duh.

Now, an open flame... that's a no no I think.
 
RedRum OG said:
So, do you know why 9/10 articles seem to include that step now? Is it because the new noob/normie market of suburban moms are now making edibles and they're making shit all weird? I'm very confused, it seems to have changed dramatically from 5-10 years ago
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A lot of people didn't even know THCA existed 5-10 years ago. Cannabis knowledge has largely been hidden due to prohibition.

When I grew and had a bunch of time and trim to do whatever with I made some really potent oil without separating the processes for decarb and extraction. Those recipes however all required an 8 hour minimum cook time.

Most people don't have that kind of time. The average recreational user wants to GET HER DONE. Separating the steps simplifies it in a way that even the uneducated can understand.
 
sekio said:
Damn, you're right. My mother and grandmother used to can fruits, hot pepers, and salsa. Or course you can boil the mason jars, duh.

Now, an open flame... that's a no no I think.
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I agree haha. Unless it's one of those... desperate times maybe, but even then.

And I guess crock pot might be a good way of getting around the cook time, set er and forget er.
 
well im gonna make some cannabutter with my trimmings and a few buds. but the old school method of just boiling it in butter for 5-8 hrs. luckily i have a separate gas stove top with a cast iron pot which making heat control easier. but will let you know what my outcome is for those interested
 
I’ve been experimenting lately and I feel the standard long simmer (8-12 hours at a low boil/simmer) works well but there’s definitely an increase of potency if this butter is further heated.

For instance caramels, which require a good amount of heat seem to be a lot more potent than the same butter used in say brownies or a non-bake type situation.

Many old recipes warn against a rolling boil but I’m starting to wonder based on the 105-130C comment if a strong boil would actually be beneficial.

-GC
 
This makes me almost think a magnetic spinning hotplate would be a decent investment. I concoct things that would make that piece of equipment useful, you could set it right to say 115 - 120°C and leave the spinner on, set a timer and leave it running. All kinds of interesting opportunities.

Pretty sure they're like 300 bucks on amazon... That way you could do a few experiments at different temperatures with different solvents (butter, bacon gresse for savory cooking, and coconut oil for confection or whateves). One batch at 12 hrs 100°C etc etc...
 
Stirrer hot plates are an indespensible tool for the modern chemist. Invest in a lot of half a dozen used models, you pay pennies on the dollar and (usually) get at least 2/3 of the funvtions working. Usually your stirrer hot plate stirs and heats, but sometimes your "stirrer hotplate" is just a hot [plate, or just a stir plate. Rarely the unit neither stirs nor heats, which means it's just a (very expensive and probably kinda grimy) plate.

Thankfully, the internal wirings of the stirrer plates are pretty simple to repair with a basic electronics course under your belt.

Just keep in mind, the hot plates don't really work as well as heating mantles, when it comes to heatng roundbottom flasks or the like. You have to use an oil bath/sand bath/metal bead bath, and live with the resulting hysteresis (or smoking corn oil bath).

On the topic of decarboxylation, logically if it's the same process as decarboxylating any other beta keto acid, the reaction works best with acid catalysis, at elevated temperature, and possibly even run under a partial vacuum to assist removal of CO2. It's possible that adding a food grade acid (phosphoric?) to your extraction/decarbopxylation could dramatically speed up the process. No idea how to reversibly acidify whole marijuana flowers though.
 
A long time ago my mate simply got some butter water and some buds with some coffee something we were so fucked up when we did this and simply mashed it together and put in the microwave and then ate it im pretty sure it worked but i was on 7 different substances at the time including xannax and eating that was the last thing i remember before waking up 18 hours later.
 
Just reporting back, I didnt notice any significant difference while decarb-ing before also decarb-ing in butter. But I have a pretty signficant tolerance, so I have a harder time noticing smaller dose changes

Seems to be what you said Sekio, in that it is a redundant step to be absolutely sure noobs dont goof it up
 
From what I have read over the years, I think that even at room temperature there is some decarboxylation of the THCA in the buds. I remember reading that some cannabis growers like to "cure" their cannabis by ageing in a humidor. I think UV treatment could also contribute - hashish was aged in the sun and could be consumed orally without further processing.
 
sekio said:
From what I have read over the years, I think that even at room temperature there is some decarboxylation of the THCA in the buds. I remember reading that some cannabis growers like to "cure" their cannabis by ageing in a humidor. I think UV treatment could also contribute - hashish was aged in the sun and could be consumed orally without further processing.
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Yes in my opinion decarbing this way is much more ideal than trying to do a quick decarb with heat on fresh or shittily cured buds.


So how I was taught (and know I’ve experimented around in this, this is the way to do it) is to dry the buds until they snap when pulled back from the plant. Dry the plant as whole as possible to allow the cannabis to die slowly. Usually I leave the root ball on, and just trim the small hard to get leaves leaving the easy to snip sugar leaves for post drying.

Once dry (about a week) take the buds and put them in mason jars, leaving an inch or two at the top and not packing them in but lightly placed in. Now cap them. The first week open every day for 5-10mins.

The next 3 weeks open every 3-7 days a week depending. It’s something you eventually learn by feel.

This curing process makes a much better smoking product, gets you much higher. Essentially the longer you can extend the drying and curing process the better.

I’ve found a lot of bud I buy can be further cured at times to yield a better product. One thing is to leave in a jar in a warm environment for 1-2 weeks of poorly cured bought bud, this seems to increase potency smoked or eaten.

-GC
 
The amount of decarbing done during the curing process is negligible. This is proven by tests done on legal buds that you can buy in the store with results displayed on the product.
 
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