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Death, your views?

Where do you think you go when you die?

Stevenson's material on reincarnation goes a long way to convince me, but I'm not so convinced on what I've read regarding near death and out-of-body experiences. During OBEs, people often see things in the so-called physical world which are not, in fact, occuring; in the `other side' portion of NDEs in the West, people certainly see dead relatives, but sometimes those who are alive and in good health. Its also been shown that how the afterlife appears, what religious figures one sees and why one is sent back is all heavily dependent upon the culture to which one belongs. This indicates the experiences, in the traditional objective sense, are caca. They are experiences influenced by culture, ultimately individual, and generated by one's own mind -- through not nessesarily the brain.

In accepting Stevenson's evidence one has to accept that consciousness is not a mere epiphenomenon of the brain and must exist somewhere in between bodies. so I assume there is some in-between place; a `bardo' as the Buddhists would call it, perhaps what we would call an extra spatial dimension (if my understanding of the concept is accurate through reading the descriptions of such spatial dimensions in the story Flatland, and elsewere).

So all in all, I suppose that currently I believe that after the physical body expires we go into a dream-state, potentially lucid, and after the data of a lifetime has been sorted out (as it seems our dreams do in regards to our day-to-day affairs) we then reincarnate.

Are you afraid of death, If so/if not why?

It is not death I fear so much as the manner in which I may die. I want to feel whole again, I want loose ends tied up, I want to feel complete. And dying prematurely, especially violently, would tend to fuck that up.
 
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Sl33p3r said:
Where do you think you go when you die?

Go? In the ground.

Oh wait, I bet you are referring to your "soul".

Newsflash... you don't go anywhere. When you die, you die... you expire and rot. All of that other bullshit about heaven or nirvana or reincarnation is just made up to deal with your second question, people's fear of death.

Sucks, huh?
 
^
Why do people always assume nonexistence is uncomfortable? That we create illusions of an afterlife or spiritual immortality in order to sheild us from the fear of death? Death, percieved as an end, is simple and painless. It difficult to grasp as a concept, but as being void of awareness, there's not much to be feared, is there?

Eternity, immortality -- that, in my mind, is much more frightening. That's why the goal of many of the eastern religions is liberation from reincarnation. That's why Nietzsche was so fucked up over the thought of the eternal recurrence (which is in a sense even more frightening than eternal life through reincarnation).

So perhaps your belief in death as total and absolute expiration is a reaction to your fear of eternity...
 
when you die your brain stops functioning so therefore its over. Religion and afterlife are only things that explain what we as humans can not find an explanation for.
 
Tryptamine*Dreamer said:
As far as I am concerned, life is completely pointless if it does not last forever. Our brief lives are completely insignificant and worthless compared to the eternity of non-existence we all face. Whether we live one year or a hundred, it does not matter. It will still be 0% of eternity.


Wow.... I like what you say about the meaninglessness of existance against the MANDATORY biologlical destruction of every single human life. But don't take it so negativily!

This can be a positive. With this insight you have perhaps you realize that the accumulation of material possessions - status - fame- money, and all those fake pursuits at future happiness, really don't mean shit because we will all die and we go through the door alone without anything we have gained in this world.

Perhaps with this insight one can see the truth of life is living every moment fully for what it's worth, with warm human contact, and connections to nature and God being pretty much the staple of existance.


My question...

Why do we need Scientific Proof for everything in the world today? What ever happened to believing? What ever happened to spirituality? A life lived by a mystic who believed in consciousness after death I feel would certantly be a happier one, than an athiest believeing that our biological annahalation is the end of the game.


I say all of this with personal experiences. I used to be a complete 100% athiest and now that I'm turning around and starting to really get a sense that death could very well be a -change in consciousness- I notice my happiness level going up considerably. Also my open mindedness towards existence in general.
 
when you die your brain stops functioning so therefore its over. Religion and afterlife are only things that explain what we as humans can not find an explanation for.

If we haven't found an explanation for what `death' means, then we shouldn't be so quick to assume that `when you die your brain stops functioning so therefore its over'. Its certainly a possibility, but, at least currently, there's no `scientific' way to prove it one way or the other.

As far as I am concerned, life is completely pointless if it does not last forever. Our brief lives are completely insignificant and worthless compared to the eternity of non-existence we all face. Whether we live one year or a hundred, it does not matter. It will still be 0% of eternity.

I disagree. Life seems to hold more meaning for us when it has set limitations. If you're with someone and know full well that within a week they're going away and you won't be seeing them ever again, the closer you get to the point of their depature the more every passing moment is imbued with meaning. This is why visions of our own mortality, through the death of someone close to us or a brush with death ourselves, is often such a motivating wake-up call.

It isn't the fact that our physical bodies, in the very least, are going to expire that wakes us up, it is the realization of this fact that wakes us up. To clarify the distinction: we all know we're going to die, but its often difficult to grasp that as a possibility in the here and now. Its seems an unliklihood, something we push off into the far future in our minds.

Grahm Greene grew addicted to the game of Russian Roulette for this very reason: it `pinched' him into wakefullness. With one bullet in the chaimber, each time he did it he'd put it to his temple and face quite squarely the chances that he would die within the next few seconds. By the time he heard the click without gunfire, brainchunks, shower of blood and non-existence, he had a profound, renewed for respect for life. With the sense of the fragility of his life, with being so close to the end he could almost taste it, he got a sense of structure to his existence.

Perhaps this is why for many Westerners, their hallucinagenic near-death experiences produce much the same in way of effects. While most come out of the experience believing this hallucinatory experience was evidence for the existence of consciousness after death of the body, they also often come out of it believing that they only have one physical life to live.

This is why though I find much evidence for reincarnation, I still think it can be quite productive to believe we only have one life to live, because it gives us a deadline. And when we have visions of our own mortality, when we get a sense of physical life's fragility, we realize our expiration date could be decades from now as easily as it could be seconds from now. It tends to produce an overwhelming sense of meaning. Chances in life to really live it: limited time only.

The belief in conscious life after bodily death (specifically in the form of reincarnation), on the other hand, is torture to a chronic procratinator -- it leaves him at the hands of only himself within an infinite amount of tomorrows.
 
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there is proof your brain stops to function. so therefore my post means that your brain cannont think or make thoughts or dreams or even imagine things like it does now. which is the only reason people can come up with a religion in the first place,
 
There is no reason to believe that the brain and the soul are interetwined.

Honestly, I don't know what happens after you die. I'd like to think I go to a better place. I like to think that I'd get another chance.

But I honestly don't know. So I can't say that there is no afterlife, and it does kind of annoy me when people come out and say "THERE IS NO AFTERLIFE"

Unless you die, you can't say that there is or isn't an afterlife. I like to think of it like this play I saw, this Christopher Durang show, called Miss Witherspoon, which essentially said that you see what you want to see when you die.

If you believe in an afterlife, you get an afterlife. You get the pearly gates and St. Peter, or you get Yoda, or you get reincarnated, or you get the "general anathestia heaven" for those that don't believe in an afterlife, you're just not there anymore.

And I'm not afraid of death. I'm afraid of all the things I'll leave behind. It's why I live my life as much as I can every day. I'm afraid of leaving stuff that I wanted to do undone.

And Im afraid of dying at 100 unable to move. I'd rather die at 60 jumping out of a plane...
 
Death by the scale and perspective with which we see life at this moment means certain non existence.

Only a fool believes they know everything.
 
I used to have TERRIBLE anxiety attacks about death. But, then I realized two things. These two things have erased all fear. If you have any fear of death read this post.

The first thing I realized was that all life is limited in what it can comprehend and that it has to be that way. Think about the cells in our bodies, they are alive, do things while they live and eventually die. Just like we do. They go their entire life only knowing the inside of our bodies. The idea that a world exists or the universe is something that is absolutely outside of their comprehension. No matter what they will NEVER understand. And it's good they don't. If they knew we knew chaos would erupt and humans could not exist. Is their life worse because they are ignorant? No, I don't think so. Just different. They exist in the world they are allowed to comprehend.

I believe that there is more behind life, death, souls, consciousness that we can ever comprehend because maybe if we had that information we would destroy the beauty of life we have now.

Think about it. Every level of life from a single-celled life form to us has a bulit in limited understanding of everything. And it is neccesary for life. For any of us to think we have any idea of the grand scheme of things is delusional in my opinion. No matter how much time we have to learn, there are forces we will never know about.


Now, my second realization. If time is eternal, the time you are "unconsciousness" will not exist for you. Only time you live will you percieve. So, trillions of trillions of years could pass when you die before you live again whether it be via a soul or even your brain matter coming together again to create you, you will be conscious again. And again. And again. And again. If time is forever, every possbility will happen.

As I said, I used to have TERRIBLE anxiety attacks about death, but once I realized these two things I was put to ease.

Chances are our ability to comprehend is limited. There is more going on then we know or should know. There are reasons behind everything.

Time does not exist for us when we do not exist. There fore, it is close to impossible for the possibility of us not living again to happen. This life may die, but you cannot. You are matter and energy. Those things do not die. At some point you will become aware of your own existence again.

I strongly encorage anyone to e-mail me ([email protected]) or AIM me (SpongeVon56) if you want to talk about this subject. I love it.
 
I particularly like your post, Spongehead, since I relate to it so well. Ever since a terrible acid trip last fall, I have also had major anxiety attacks about death. I am afraid of not-existing, afraid of separating from my body and my personality, afraid of not being separate. I am most afraid of being caught in an eternal time loop of chaos and nothingness at the same time (my acid trip was that type of trip).

I used to believe in a "heaven and hell" type of death. Now I am more likely to believe that your consciousness turns into energy and become recycled for other purposes. I wish I could accept this and be happy, but instead I am filled with fear of what's going to happen to ME - my ego, my personality. I have never been able to just let it go. That's why I'm terrified of death.

It doesn't make sense to me that I'd stop existing. Isn't it a fact of physics that "energy never dies, it just changes"?
 
When I was a very small child, I believed I'd live forever. By about age 7, I began to realise about the reality of death. I assumed that it will be like entering into a dreamless sleep. I still think this is a possibility.

But I also think that there may be more to life than mere annihilation at death. I liked Spongehead's idea, that if time lasts for an eternity, that eventually, we'd come back again as some form of consciousness and that during the interim, we wouldn't be aware of not existing.

So many people have had near-death experiences or messages from the dead.

It's still a mystery, though. Even if this is it, at least we know that everyone is in the same boat. If we've had a full life and made the most of it, can we really be that upset if death is the end? Wouldn't it be more like going to bed contented after a full day?

After all, the world will carry on long after we're gone... maybe none of it really matters in the end, but so long as as we're here, we can make the most of it. As long as you're aware, then you know you're existing. If death is the end, you won't know any different.

At 40, I logically realise that I'm probably at around the halfway mark. I sense that as I get older and have lived more of my lifespan, that I will dread death less. If I make to 80, I will probably even begin to regard death as a form of release, especially if I'm in physical agony and/or am lonely and bereaved. I will probably feel a sense of having lived my life and being spent. I will realise it's inevitable but at least I'll ahve had my life so I wouldn't be missing out because I will have lived the whole lifespan, etc.

Another thing, is that I think we actually die a little every day. I no longer care about what was important to me at, say, age 5 or 13. When I'm 80, I will probably no longer care about the same things that I cared about at 35 or 40. When i was younger I had all sorts of dreams that I now realise are not going to come true but it's sort of OK now because I've lived life and knew I made the most of things, even though they havne't completely worked out. So by age 80, I will probably feel ready to go. Even if death is annihilation, our actions will have had a rippling effect on all creation for eternity, however subtle...this could be what we leave behind and what remains of us after we're no more.
 
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When you die your consciousness ceases to exist. We can't comprehend that so we make artificial constructs to cope with it. I've never feared death itself, I'll simply cease to exist, doesn't sound very traumatic.
 
wizekrak said:
When you die your consciousness ceases to exist. We can't comprehend that so we make artificial constructs to cope with it. I've never feared death itself, I'll simply cease to exist, doesn't sound very traumatic.


Sad but true, however i believe in heaven and hell. It is funny however seeing some evolutionists or humanists who are supposedly against supernaturalism, speak of fantastic marvelous eastern mystical states becoming when one dies.
 
Im not afraid of death. Death is a gain because i know when i die im going 2 Heaven 2 spend eternity with the Most High God Almighty. It couldnt get better than that. There's more 2 existance than what we see/feel. Our spirit lives forever & our bodies are the 1's that die, thats what i believe. This life is preperation 4 eternity, defines where you go & what choice you make 4 yourself.
 
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the seeker said:
exactly. its like when people say why should there be life after death? were you alive before you were born? well yes, many people claim to remember past lives so that is a terrible argument.

From what ive learnt once your created (your spirit) because you are a spirit with a soul that lives inside a body. Once a spirit is created it cannot be destroyed. Hence why we live 4 eternity & either go 2 Heaven or Hell 2 live forever in happiness or pain. I believe you defined as alive when your spirit is created & given a form (body).
 
I for one know for a fact, that st peter doesn't let anyone in who disrespects the gift of language with such pathetic and juvenile abbreviations with which you hold so much pride.

sorry
 
L2R said:
I for one know for a fact, that st peter doesn't let anyone in who disrespects the gift of language with such pathetic and juvenile abbreviations with which you hold so much pride.

sorry

Haha. St Peter isnt the 1 deciding who goes 2 Heaven. Only 1 thing can build that bridge 2 Heaven. JESUS.
 
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