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Dealing with Existential Frustration?

Well it worked for me man. I was resistant to the idea, but it worked exactly like that. I chatted (as we do on here) with a variety of ladies, met a few, didn't meet a bunch, and second try I met one who I've been with for over a year and who is almost unbelievably wonderful and perfect. I know a lot of people who have a hard time meeting people of the opposite sex via "regular" means who have found good success with the online dating thing. The Internet is just a tool, it allows people to connect who would otherwise maybe not.

I set up a profile, described myself honestly and thoroughly, and as a result, people who were interested in what I have to offer reached out. In "real life", that process happens too only you don't get to prescreen it. On dates you work that stuff out, here you can do it before a date. Ultimately all it is is another way to meet people. I honestly don't see how it's a bad thing. Maybe I would have met someone as good without it, that's irrelevant because I met her with it, and without it I likely wouldn't have, and that would have been a damn shame for everyone involved.

that's why i find it so insidious. it works, so we use it, without really pausing to consider how these services are using us. take the dating site for example. when you create a profile, your identity became a pseudo-commodity that the dating site uses as their product for other members. your information is quantized and then passes through some algorithms that decide who you are going to be exposed to, based on what they estimate is best for you. of course, if you're limiting the scope of your dating to the people that the site finds for you, your exposure to "potential matches" that don't use the same site is limited. is it offering freedom of choice or the illusion of choice?

these corporations don't even pretend to care about their users. as soon as they have convinced us to hand over our information, their objective shifts to pleasing us just enough that we find someone "compatible" and then we naturally are inclined to share it with our other reluctant friends and convince them to hand over their information to people who have given themselves the ability to resell it to whomever they want (it's all in the ToS that none of us reads). for that matter, how did you initially decide to join the site? how many of the people using dating sites now would have ever used a matchmaker, when that was the only option for such a service? it's strange that we're paradoxically going along with it as if though we have no other [good] options, but then praise the service for limiting our choices to the partners it decides are compatible for us.

we are now in a panopticon where everything about us is known forever, and all that information is already being used against us. we can change who we are, but we can't escape judgment being passed about who we were. this culture of character assassination that is prevalent now is perfect evidence of that. if we are not perfect, or some reasonable fascimile, in the context of what groupthink has decided is socially acceptable, then we risk our innocent little mistakes having major consequences.

we're not on the brink of a slippery slope, we're already sliding. intelligence agencies tap our communications, tech companies harvest and process and warehouse every intimate detail about who we are; your credit rating has an impact on what kind of jobs you can get and insurers and banks have already begun to use big data analytics to determine what your premium should be or whether you are liable to be a high-risk borrower based on details as scant as who your friends are on Facebook, a service which openly admits it tells us what to think and who to vote for. Google even reads your fucking e-mail, something we would immediately decry as fascism if our governments did it, but we're giving Google a free pass. Why?

furthermore, we are losing the ability to say "NO" to all this because our daily reality has become so abstract that we have a hard time determining truth from falsehood, and the implication that has is we risk sailing well past the point-of-no-return before we even realize it, which limits our ability to come to grips with reality and fight the erosion of all that our ancestors considered sacred and worth fighting and even dying for. You're part of it, I'm part of it, we're all a part of it. Opting out is becoming harder by the day because our choices are becoming more and more constrained by the decisions made about who we are by algorithms we can't even see.

the sad thing is this was all foretold, by books that Amazon doesn't want you to read, and by other culture that is being buried ever-deeper by the heaping shit-mountain of groupthink and 'social media' and vines and literally false news that has infiltrated every part of our lives. I just grabbed whatever link for that fake news thing but it's prevalent and many formerly-legitimate news sources don't even care that they're now publishing as much fake clickbait as they are actual news, because clickbait has become the only way to keep the lights on. another sign of the times?

well, i guess that's all there is to say about it. we can't decouple our lives from the technology we've let into our lives anymore, and we may not even be able to change what comes next (transhumanism, IMHO) but we can at least think critically about these changes and the role they will play in shaping the future of our species.

Foreigner said:
I worked my ass off in the first 7 years of my career and did well financially. Lived that money life for a while. I wasn't fabulously wealthy or anything, but... well off enough. At some point it stopped feeling real. I woke up one day and had one of the worst anxiety attacks of my life. There's something de-realizing about materialism if some part of you, deep down, knows that it's bullshit. There's this feeling in my body that tries to say, "What do you think it is you're really doing here?"

yeah i agree about the whole thing, materialism as the means of sustaining our sagging growth as the developed world transitions into a postindustrial, transnational engine of commerce. without tech, how can we possibly stop the spectre of economic stagnation? the birth rates and GDP growth rate of the entire developed world have been gradually falling for years. can we expect another economic boom on the horizon when the odds are so heavily against us? what if our decaying standards of living (or, alternatively, endless stagflation) lasts the rest of our lives?

lately i've been reading whatever I can find about urbanization in post-boom regions like the rust belt in the U.S., and countries like China and Japan that are being hollowed out by vast economic forces. The once-vibrant rural communities of the world are decaying, rusting and returning to dust. The resurgence of homesteading and spread of rural broadband in the U.S. gives me some hope that we can reverse this depressing trend and find an equilibrium between technological progress and our innate desire to hang onto our humanity, but if we don't fight for the latter then who knows what can happen.
 
I believe I have 1984 on my kindle and I have read most of the other books on that list. I would just try to detach from the world. That giant capitalist boot is going to continue stomping along and there is nothing you can do about it.


He felt as though he were wandering in the forests of the sea bottom, lost in the monstrous world where he himself was the monster. He was alone. The past was dead, the future unimaginable. What certainty had he that a single human creature now living was on his side? And what way of knowing that the dominion of the party would not endure for ever? Like an answer, the three slogans on the white face of the Ministry of Truth came back at him:

WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

-1984
 
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that's why i find it so insidious. it works, so we use it, without really pausing to consider how these services are using us. take the dating site for example. when you create a profile, your identity became a pseudo-commodity that the dating site uses as their product for other members. your information is quantized and then passes through some algorithms that decide who you are going to be exposed to, based on what they estimate is best for you. of course, if you're limiting the scope of your dating to the people that the site finds for you, your exposure to "potential matches" that don't use the same site is limited. is it offering freedom of choice or the illusion of choice?

these corporations don't even pretend to care about their users. as soon as they have convinced us to hand over our information, their objective shifts to pleasing us just enough that we find someone "compatible" and then we naturally are inclined to share it with our other reluctant friends and convince them to hand over their information to people who have given themselves the ability to resell it to whomever they want (it's all in the ToS that none of us reads). for that matter, how did you initially decide to join the site? how many of the people using dating sites now would have ever used a matchmaker, when that was the only option for such a service? it's strange that we're paradoxically going along with it as if though we have no other [good] options, but then praise the service for limiting our choices to the partners it decides are compatible for us.

Well to your points about the functionality of the dating site, it's true if you just go by their top recommendations, it's gone through an algorithm, but you can also browse. My girlfriend found me, she didn't put anything on her profile except 2 pictures and 1 sentence, she doesn't get matches, she just found me by browsing nearby people and had a good feeling and it worked out. Besides, it's just more people you're exposed to than you would have been, I don't see what the downside is, it's not like you can't continue to be open to "regular" ways of meeting people. If you meet someone and they're not good for you, fine, no harm done. But maybe they'll be great, and then it's a good thing you used the dating site because you probably wouldn't have ever met otherwise unless you happen to know similar people or just experience dumb luck. Three of my very best friends who are important parts of my life I met on Bluelight, and we all eventually ended up in the same town. It's been a real blessing for me. Three of my cousins met their spouses on an online dating site and are happy, with families, etc. They hadn't had any luck over years and decided to try it and it worked for them. If you want to find someone, and you do and you're happy, isn't that the point, regardless of how you found them?

Your other points about dissemination of personal information are valid though. Of course just visiting Google does the same thing. I have a spyware removal program and a simple session of searching for info on something attached up to dozens of tracking cookies and minor spyware programs usually. It's just the way it is right now. My only personal information on Ok Cupid is my name, occupation, and some details about what I like/etc (I could have given more but I didn't). Which is all already out there. Considering what I've gained from it, for me it's well worth it.

Anyway I just mentioned it since you seemed bummed about not being able to find a quality woman, and I wanted to share my experience with the matter.
 
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Well to your points about the functionality of the dating site, it's true if you just go by their top recommendations, it's gone through an algorithm, but you can also browse. My girlfriend found me, she didn't put anything on her profile except 2 pictures and 1 sentence, she doesn't get matches, she just found me by browsing nearby people and had a good feeling and it worked out. Besides, it's just more people you're exposed to than you would have been, I don't see what the downside is, it's not like you can't continue to be open to "regular" ways of meeting people. If you meet someone and they're not good for you, fine, no harm done. But maybe they'll be great, and then it's a good thing you used the dating site because you probably wouldn't have ever met otherwise unless you happen to know similar people or just experience dumb luck. Three of my very best friends who are important parts of my life I met on Bluelight, and we all eventually ended up in the same town. It's been a real blessing for me. Three of my cousins met their spouses on an online dating site and are happy, with families, etc. They hadn't had any luck over years and decided to try it and it worked for them. If you want to find someone, and you do and you're happy, isn't that the point, regardless of how you found them?

Your other points about dissemination of personal information are valid though. Of course just visiting Google does the same thing. I have a spyware removal program and a simple session of searching for info on something attached up to dozens of tracking cookies and minor spyware programs usually. It's just the way it is right now. My only personal information on Ok Cupid is my name, occupation, and some details about what I like/etc (I could have given more but I didn't). Which is all already out there. Considering what I've gained from it, for me it's well worth it.

Anyway I just mentioned it since you seemed bummed about not being able to find a quality woman, and I wanted to share my experience with the matter.

thanks i do appreciate it, didn't mean to come off with a tone that dating sites are beneath me or anything i just feel like, being absorbed in the tech industry constantly, i can't miss seeing the patterns emerging with all this data collection and abuses going on now, and dating sites are one of the major red flags because of how intimate the stuff they need to know about us are. i feel like we're the boiling frogs right now but i can't convince anyone because everyone already feels like democracy has died and that there's no more fighting the inevitable :\ i consider that a self-fulfilling prophecy more than the actuality.

that aside, i'm not bummed because i can't find quality people, i'm bummed because this society has developed to separate us and dehumanize us and keep us from thinking too much lest we accidentally threaten the status quo that we perversely desire for stability even though it makes us lesser people than we could become.
 
.....i'm not bummed because i can't find quality people, i'm bummed because this society has developed to separate us and dehumanize us and keep us from thinking too much lest we accidentally threaten the status quo that we perversely desire for stability even though it makes us lesser people than we could become.

I often feel like I this. Most of us drastically underestimate the extent that we are being taken away from ourselves by this new reality of information gathering and tracking. Even more insidious to me is the way we have become trained to divide ourselves from our own experiences (the selfie stick, the rush to post it on FB or instagram). Sometimes it is only nature that even feels real to me.
 
I feel the same way regarding the extreme usage/reliance on social media. I spend as much time in nature as I can. I don't use facebook except to communicate with my band in a group chat. I don't use ANY of the other social media. I use the Internet all the time, for work, and also to Bluelight and search for information, and I also used Ok Cupid for a bit til I found someone. I do think it's a problem where it's all leading. I just don't think it's black and white. It also produces good things worth having. I feel like I have a good balance, I am in touch with the real things in the world and wary of the personal information issue and the other issues in the world, I am an individual who values real human interaction over anything else and I think for myself. But I still use the tools available to me from this technological revolution when I feel they're things I can benefit from.
 
I often feel like I this. Most of us drastically underestimate the extent that we are being taken away from ourselves by this new reality of information gathering and tracking. Even more insidious to me is the way we have become trained to divide ourselves from our own experiences (the selfie stick, the rush to post it on FB or instagram). Sometimes it is only nature that even feels real to me.

the cult-of-personality mindset that FB, YT, et al. cultivate is freaky business. it's not just unnatural in how it has us acting but the rate of change is so fast that someone could plan and invest and execute a successful business using these services (YT, Amazon, eBay) and then wake up one day to find out that YT has been replaced by Twitch (live-streaming), or the terms of service have changed and what was good business yesterday is suddenly no longer viable. the "entrepreneurs" don't know they're employees until they've been fired.

Xorkoth said:
I feel the same way regarding the extreme usage/reliance on social media. I spend as much time in nature as I can. I don't use facebook except to communicate with my band in a group chat. I don't use ANY of the other social media. I use the Internet all the time, for work, and also to Bluelight and search for information, and I also used Ok Cupid for a bit til I found someone. I do think it's a problem where it's all leading. I just don't think it's black and white. It also produces good things worth having. I feel like I have a good balance, I am in touch with the real things in the world and wary of the personal information issue and the other issues in the world, I am an individual who values real human interaction over anything else and I think for myself. But I still use the tools available to me from this technological revolution when I feel they're things I can benefit from.

what scares me is that today we have the choice not to (ab)use Facebook and Twitter, etc. Tomorrow we may not have the choice at all. For example, services that use SSO (single sign-in) that require you to authenticate with Facebook (and, therefore, presumably with your real identity) before you're allowed to even use entirely unrelated services. Here in Toronto, Twitter has sponsored public-access WiFi within our public transit system and, for at least this month, you were only able to use the "public" WiFi by either signing in with a Twitter account or signing up for a Twitter account.

It's just a small leap from that to the point where you won't even be able to walk around in public without some unseen system knowing exactly who you are and even trying to guess what your motives may be from your actions or facial expressions. What will happen then to people who refuse to sign up for Twitter? Will they immediately be flagged as persona-non-grata?

There is far too real a risk of this happening at the present rate of progress in these things. Mike Monteiro (prolific web designer) gave a talk some time ago about how even well-built systems can drop the ball when it comes to unexpected use cases. He then explained an example where Facebook's privacy filter incidentally broadcast some in-the-closet person's sexual orientation to their unaccepting circle of family and friends, and how that software gaffe may have even exposed the sexual orientation of people living in cultures where homosexuality is a punishable offense. This just illustrates how even the most benign-seeming system can pose unpredictable threats to our existence when we delegate too much power to them.

in a nice example of synchronicity, WaPo has published an article on this topic:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/national/2015/12/27/aianxiety/

“The future is ours to shape. I feel we are in a race that we need to win. It’s a race between the growing power of the technology and the growing wisdom we need to manage it. Right now, almost all the resources tend to go into growing the power of the tech,” Tegmark said.

i picked this quote specifically for anyone reading this wondering why i'm so zealously talking about technology in a thread about existential crises. it's all interwoven. wisdom is the key to solving our overarching social issues, and wisdom is the key to us individually being able to tune out all the noise and focus on what is right for us. we live in a world overflowing with answers (knowledge) but there is still a scarcity of questions (wisdom) to attach all those answers to. how can we make sense of our own lives while we only have half of the equation?
 
All of the above concerns about social media can be remedied by using a fake name, a different e-mail address than your primary, and not posting too much personal content. People forget that it's part public domain and part private domain. The public aspect means you don't have 100% control of the content once you submit it; the private aspect means a company owns your content and can data mine your activities. Disabling browser cookies also helps a bit.

My main concern with social media is that technology is literally separating people and communities. Around Christmas I was feeling crushingly lonely despite having already met up with some people, and upon reflection I realized that the majority of my interactions with people are now through the middle man of technology. Friends I've known for years, I'm seeing less and less of. I'm always the one who has to put in the effort to make plans or go see them, otherwise I'll only hear about their lives on Facebook. If I phone a friend to hear their voice, they often don't answer but then send me a text in reply. I even know people who hate talking on the phone so much that they conduct most of their business through text. I don't know if it's a product of people becoming more anti-social, or that technology has allowed people to maintain super busy lives with no margin of free time. I practically have to schedule a phone conversation with some people.

It's probably a tad anti-social too though. You can only interact through the medium of technology for so long before your natural, in-person social skills become rusty. An article I read not long ago talked about how social media increases the intimidation factor because people are able to edit their lives and only post the best side of themselves, which causes others to feel inferior or want to compete with them. This all results in distancing oneself from reality. I personally find social media really obnoxious because it lets people get attention without having to put in any real effort to connect with anyone. It's all pseudo-connecting.

I read a super fascinating article recently on how the housing boom in many of the world's largest cities is restructuring the urban landscape to be more separate:
http://www.theguardian.com/cities/2015/nov/30/beyond-maximum-cities-booming-party-ny-rio-mumbai

It's long but well worth reading. The bit of wisdom I've taken away from it is that cities that have so-called "poor areas", shanty towns, and mixed classes actually have a stronger sense of community. Poorer communities tend to have more open doors to one another. There is also more diversity via chaos. Then the developers come in and make monochromatic, dull environments that are non-interactive. The result is that fewer people talk to their neighbors and, I would presume, this relates to the increase in social media use. If urban planning and housing pressure are destroying communities, then social media is one of the only ways left to sort of connect, if one can afford the cost to participate.

In the city I live in, the gay part of town is visibly disappearing. All the guys are using social dating apps instead of going to gatherings and meeting people. This has its pros and cons, the cons being that people are way less respectful of one another, disposable people culture has increased, and gay community is becoming decentralized. It's weird to walk in that part of town now because nothing about it is "gay". There are other demographics who are affected by gentrification in this way. Technology is splintering communities.

I think this even has ramifications on democracy. The amount of bullshit social activism I see on Facebook is alarming. People will sign petitions but nobody goes out and actually protests anymore. By clicking "like", people feel they are doing their civic duty. That part disturbs me more than anything. There's not much connection to the real world happening.
 
I can relate to all that has been said. I feel as if Earth is foreign to me. I don't really belong here. On a clear beautiful night, I look up at the stars in awe. When I see all the crimes committed and the people, children and animals who are victims of senseless violence my heart aches.
I find myself avoiding people, crowded stores, and sometimes life in general.
I read things about people who have had these mind blowing experiences. They have reached states of higher conscienceness, naturally or induced by a substance, yet I have not.

I have never done any psychedelic drugs, which I hear open your mind and expand your conscienceness.
I wish to have of spiritual experience, or some kind of break thru.. I know there has to be more to this life than what I see, everything seems so pointless, and mundane. We work, work, work to pay bills, to have nice holidays, and nice things. If we don't work, we become useless, homeless, losers of society.
Yet we are all going to die anyways, and can't take that stuff with us when we do die. So what's all this for. Why are we doing these things?
 
It's probably a tad anti-social too though. You can only interact through the medium of technology for so long before your natural, in-person social skills become rusty. An article I read not long ago talked about how social media increases the intimidation factor because people are able to edit their lives and only post the best side of themselves, which causes others to feel inferior or want to compete with them. This all results in distancing oneself from reality. I personally find social media really obnoxious because it lets people get attention without having to put in any real effort to connect with anyone. It's all pseudo-connecting.

yea, pseudo-connecting is an apt description. it reminds me of a web, that is ever-expanding but instead of increasing in density the strands are stretching longer and thinner and bonds that were once strong can snap without warning but then other bonds persist where they might have eroded otherwise. i've found it good to keep my FB profile just to be reached by people who don't have any other contact info for me, but the platform itself is becoming ever more bizarre. FB now is piloting the concept of bringing advertising and "consumer interaction" into private chats. Is it net-positive or net-negative for us? on one hand, it creates more service-sector jobs for retail employees that have been made redundant (since a machine can flip burgers but still can't replace a human at marketing/CS), and it creates a more equitable relationship between the company and customer. But on the other hand it reinforces the weird feeling that our lives can be reduced to ledgers and we can be defined by where our income comes from and where it ends up going to.

In the city I live in, the gay part of town is visibly disappearing. All the guys are using social dating apps instead of going to gatherings and meeting people. This has its pros and cons, the cons being that people are way less respectful of one another, disposable people culture has increased, and gay community is becoming decentralized. It's weird to walk in that part of town now because nothing about it is "gay". There are other demographics who are affected by gentrification in this way. Technology is splintering communities.

I think this even has ramifications on democracy. The amount of bullshit social activism I see on Facebook is alarming. People will sign petitions but nobody goes out and actually protests anymore. By clicking "like", people feel they are doing their civic duty. That part disturbs me more than anything. There's not much connection to the real world happening.

aye we have been mollified by all this tech "making life easier" although our lives are now more controlled than ever vast networks of corporate interests. with all the tax evasion and transnational cash flows and "free trade" agreements i'm wondering if the sci-fi writers of the 80s hit the nail on the head predicting that we would eventually see corporations consume governments. there has to be a limit to privatization of public services or we end up with what's happened in the U.S. where private prison corporations pay judges to convict people. fascism by any other name...

but on the other hand big data initiatives also help make local governance more technocratic and inclusive so there are still good projects that offer some hope that urban planning may become more inclusive in the near future. i just don't see this ad-fuelled commercialized-web garbage adding to that, instead it looks like the tech corporations are more interested in leeching off progress to fatten their own wallets.

I can relate to all that has been said. I feel as if Earth is foreign to me. I don't really belong here. On a clear beautiful night, I look up at the stars in awe. When I see all the crimes committed and the people, children and animals who are victims of senseless violence my heart aches.

I have never done any psychedelic drugs, which I hear open your mind and expand your conscienceness.
I wish to have of spiritual experience, or some kind of break thru.. I know there has to be more to this life than what I see, everything seems so pointless, and mundane. We work, work, work to pay bills, to have nice holidays, and nice things. If we don't work, we become useless, homeless, losers of society.

looking up at the stars is a profound experience. i sometimes wonder if we could get rid of all the light pollution created by cities and suburbs so that everyone could see the stars every night, what affect that would have on how people think of the world and their place in it. many of us are just running around in our own little "world", reinforced by the aforementioned segregation inherent to gentrification, and by the limited group of people we interact with on [anti]social networks, seemingly oblivious to the enormitude of everything outside our immediate focus.

i haven't taken any decent hallucinogens in a while, but looking back i feel kind of ambivalent about them now. maybe the cumulative trip experiences had an effect on my present mindset, maybe not? i dunno, i recall ending a trip with all these great ideas for my own life but then a week later they would be forgotten about. then again i am pretty slow on the uptake so i did eventually end up incorporating some of those ideas long after my conscious mind had forgotten them. a question i'd love an answer to is whether a drug trip is equivalent to some other [sober] experience that would take you outside your comfort zone, or even more influential, or less.

*finishing the article* that part about the Schenectady mayor was inspiring. It speaks to the lengths that we will go when we are desperate, and the amazing things that can grow from our desperate actions. We can't build a world like that when we give up, selling our souls to some faceless corporation so they can squeeze every ounce of our energy every week in exchange for a better paycheque so we can sooner fill our lives with more material shit that doesn't even make us happy. it's like a punch in the gut to hear people talk about home buying and car buying as "life goals". Does that mean what you do and who you are is just a means to an end?
 
to reply to the OP directly:

this dwelling on the 'absurdity' of it all is fruit of you feeling no meaning in your life, and will continue if you keep spending time doing activities which you find pointless, "playing the game of life".

when one is in your situation, the fact that meaning is individual, subjective, feels like it is something negative, but once one becomes passionate about something, it just doesn't matter anymore. may be something like discovering that your experience of consciousness is just electric signals in your brain doesn't make ice cream any less tasty etc. so you have to find your passion, the thing that'll silence this, the thing that make it so that it doesn't matter if it's unpractical, if it's crazy, silly, weird, it is what floats your boat. i think that this is what people refer to when they say something like "what God wants me to do" or "doing exactly what i had to do".

one might argue that it's just an illusion but overall this argument is just the feeling of meaninglessness being expressed in words, which makes sense to you because you feel it. reason won't convince someone who feels no meaning about the existence of meaning, and won't convince someone who feels meaning about its inexistence. so don't let your thoughts fool you.

i remember a few personal projects that i had that from a neutral point of view were completely pointless, but i was so passionate about them that it just didn't matter. the answer isn't within the realm of reason, i'd say.

finding a passion isn't easy though. i find that passion is something that is very delicate, and that does not come in one day. it comes from inspiration, so that is some place to start.

if the standard 'how to live' model isn't working for you, then stop spending time on it...

hope this makes sense, my head is very scrambled right now so it's hard to write but i had to say this
 
having battled this for years, this thread has brought to my attention that i have it completely behind me now. i didn't even realise this, so thanks Malakaix. it was such an issue for so long, i had resigned to its permanency. maybe that resignation helped me get over it.

so i'd say just play along. get busy. it does go away. meaning is created anyway, so get creating. :)
 
^^ touché
I am creating. Or trying too anyways.
Thujone- I hear ya on people living in their own world. That's what baffles me the most. I seem to be the only one I know that ever looks UP, and notices the beauty in the full moon, or heck even notices the moon is there at all. I wish people to see that "we" are so much more than what see directly in front of us.
 
to reply to the OP directly:

this dwelling on the 'absurdity' of it all is fruit of you feeling no meaning in your life, and will continue if you keep spending time doing activities which you find pointless, "playing the game of life".

when one is in your situation, the fact that meaning is individual, subjective, feels like it is something negative, but once one becomes passionate about something, it just doesn't matter anymore. may be something like discovering that your experience of consciousness is just electric signals in your brain doesn't make ice cream any less tasty etc. so you have to find your passion, the thing that'll silence this, the thing that make it so that it doesn't matter if it's unpractical, if it's crazy, silly, weird, it is what floats your boat. i think that this is what people refer to when they say something like "what God wants me to do" or "doing exactly what i had to do".

one might argue that it's just an illusion but overall this argument is just the feeling of meaninglessness being expressed in words, which makes sense to you because you feel it. reason won't convince someone who feels no meaning about the existence of meaning, and won't convince someone who feels meaning about its inexistence. so don't let your thoughts fool you.

i remember a few personal projects that i had that from a neutral point of view were completely pointless, but i was so passionate about them that it just didn't matter. the answer isn't within the realm of reason, i'd say.

finding a passion isn't easy though. i find that passion is something that is very delicate, and that does not come in one day. it comes from inspiration, so that is some place to start.

if the standard 'how to live' model isn't working for you, then stop spending time on it...

hope this makes sense, my head is very scrambled right now so it's hard to write but i had to say this

This makes perfect sense to me, so don't worry about sounding scrambled! For me, the embodied sense of emptiness doesn't change with the circumstances. I've felt this way in the midst of some of the highest points of my life, and the lowest. I just wasn't able to put words to the awareness until recently. Whenever suffering gets too intense or happiness gets too extreme, something within me caves in, and I come right back to center, to ground zero, to total presence and awareness. It happens to a lesser extent in other circumstances but even in the midst of passion, I find myself stopping and feeling this embodied sensation of, "What's really happening here? Why am I doing this?" (I'm phrasing it as a thought, but it's a body feeling.) It's almost as though people, places, and situations are constantly causing me to suspend my belief and look more deeply, in a very autonomous way. For some people, the more intense a situation gets, the more they tune it out... for me it's the opposite, the more intense it gets the more real it becomes and the more the truth is revealed. Maybe it's because intensity suspends all stories and narratives and causes total presence. If it weren't for the crystal clarity of these moments, I would have given up on myself as being insane a long time ago.

There are definitely people who abdicate participation in life by spending too much time dwelling on nihilism. For me, it works a bit differently. No matter if I'm enjoying myself and feeling passion, or having the worst day ever, I find it hard to put my belief 100% into anything. I know everything's temporary and that's not what stops me; what stops me is that having a belief seems like a distraction from the truth. I'd rather not identify with anything. It's not a rationale or a through to excuse lack of productivity or direction. I feel it is pure truth of the situation incarnate. No matter if I'm happy or sad I'm still experiencing it. "It" never changes.

I've connected with some others around the world who understand what I'm saying. For some reason they are able to move into a state of pure joy and bliss after realizing "it", but that hasn't clicked for me. I still only see the pointlessness. I have so much love and compassion for other people and living things, but it doesn't negative that I feel like having to live this life and involve myself in material world tasks seems pointless. Again, I'm not saying I'm above it or anything. I still work, pay bills, etc... I just mean, I dunno... how do you move forward when you see things as they really are? *shrug*
 
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Greetings! Another attempt to put together a post that might have some value. In the process of researching anxiety I came across this story about the writer Walker Percy.
Various said:
Walker Percy received a B.A. from the University of North Carolina in 1937 and his M.D. from the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons in 1941, intending to become a psychiatrist. He became an intern at Bellevue Hospital in Manhattan in 1942, but developed tuberculosis that year.

He spent more than two years convalescing, in sanitariums in the Adirondacks and elsewhere. While at the sanatorium, he fell into a deep depression and read intensively- lots of Dostoevsky, Thomas Mann, as well as Kierkegaard and Thomas Aquinas.

Feeling physically and emotionally unwell, he underwent a spiritual crisis in which he determined that science could not, after all, solve the problem of human unhappiness.

Eventually he decided to take a leap of faith and become a Catholic.

I related with his story because around the age of 22 I experienced roughly the same thing. The main difference being he was able to cure his 'spiritual crisis' via reading philosophy and theology, I was only able to use the same means to better understand my own. He took a leap of faith, I took drugs.

I can accept the spiritual issues, the thing I cannot seem to accept is the realization that you're perpetually alone. If you do not understand what I mean I believe it's what Hunter S. Thompson is expressing here:

Hunter S. Thompson said:
“We are all alone, born alone, die alone, and—in spite of True Romance magazines—we shall all someday look back on our lives and see that, in spite of our company, we were alone the whole way. I do not say lonely—at least, not all the time—but essentially, and finally, alone.

Do you agree with the above quote? If so, how do you deal with it?
 
Greetings! Another attempt to put together a post that might have some value. In the process of researching anxiety I came across this story about the writer Walker Percy.


I related with his story because around the age of 22 I experienced roughly the same thing. The main difference being he was able to cure his 'spiritual crisis' via reading philosophy and theology, I was only able to use the same means to better understand my own. He took a leap of faith, I took drugs.

I can accept the spiritual issues, the thing I cannot seem to accept is the realization that you're perpetually alone. If you do not understand what I mean I believe it's what Hunter S. Thompson is expressing here:



Do you agree with the above quote? If so, how do you deal with it?

I am never alone. I have a whole microbial ecosystem I carry with me everywhere. I never whine about my existence. As long as I can contemplate my place in the world I can't help but to feel thankful I exist. Cynical and pessimistic people just seem like ungrateful brats to me.
 
I'm a little late to this thread, but one of the older doctors at the new place where I work just told me something very wise that I thought I'd share here: The treatment for existential distress (the negative feelings that arise from being directionless and feeling cosmically useless) is doing good deeds for other sentient beings. "Show me someone who feels their life is pointless," she said, "and I'll show you someone who has spent a little too long gazing at their navel, and would really benefit from getting up and doing a good deed for someone else who could really use it. Life will feel pretty meaningful pretty fast."

I think I basically agree with this, from my own experience. The meaning of life is to [re]connect.
 
Great post, and hi DMAO. :)

I totally agree, immersing yourself in things you love and being there for people is what makes life worth living.
 
yeah it is refreshing to see MDAO post ;) i know i feel better after reconnecting, which i spend a lot of time doing after marginalizing people in my life. i find that most of the people i know are always willing to meet for a good time once i make an effort to re-open the lines of communication. often it leads me to wonder why it didn't happen earlier.

why is it that we make so much time for "life" but social connections are always relegated to the backburner? seems kind of odd that we live perpetually pushing the most important things further from us instead of holding them closer...
 
I should have worded my last post a bit differently, instead of writing 'cannot seem to accept' I should have written 'difficult to accept'. Oh well, unimportant.

It seems this guy from reddit understands what I was trying to communicate.

neubourn from reddit responds to meaning of Orson Welles quote said:
Orson Welles said:
We're born alone, we live alone, we die alone. Only through our love and friendship can we create the illusion for the moment that we're not alone.

Like any quote, the interpretation is ultimately up to the reader, i would suggest in this case, Orson was illustrating that ultimately, we are truly alone in this universe, from the moment we are born, to the moment we die. We view and experience the world through our own eyes, and we are only privy to our own thoughts and experiences.

People can share their thoughts and experiences with others, but ultimately, you can only understand them vicariously, through your own eyes, as it were, we can not TRULY understand what its like to live as someone else.

But, through love and friendship, socializing with others, we are capable of creating a momentary illusion that we are not alone, but that is all it is: an illusion, because at the end of the day, you are still stuck within your own mind and see the world through your eyes.

Also, found this from Douglas Rushkoff he is talking about evolution having a purpose and direction.

Rushkoff said:
I can't prove it more than anecdotally, but I believe evolution has purpose and direction. It appears obvious, yet absolutely unconfirmable, that matter is groping towards complexity. While the laws of nature—and time itself—require objects and life forms attain durability and sustainability for survival, it seems to me more a means to an end than an end in itself.

Theology goes a long way towards imbuing substance and processes with meaning—describing life as "matter reaching towards divinity," or as the process through which divinity calls matter back up into itself—but theologians repeatedly make the mistake of ascribing this sense of purpose to history rather than the future. This is only natural, since the narrative structures we use to understand our world tend to have beginnings, middles, and ends. In order to experience the pay-off at the end of the story, we need to see it as somehow built-in to the original intention of events.

It's also hard for people to contend with the great probability that we are simply over-advanced fungi and bacteria, hurling through a galaxy in cold and meaningless space. Our existence may be unintentional, meaningless and purposeless; but that doesn't preclude meaning or purpose from emerging as a result of our interaction and collaboration.

Meaning may not be a precondition for humanity, but rather a byproduct of it.


That's why it's so important to recognize that evolution, at its best, is a team sport. As Darwin's later, lesser-known, but more important works contended, survival of the fittest is not a law applied to individuals, but to groups. Just as it is now postulated that mosquitoes cause their victims to itch and sweat nervously so that other mosquitoes can more easily find the target, most great leaps forward in human evolution—from the formation of clans to the building of cities—are feats of collaborative effort. Better rates of survival are as much a happy side effect of good collaboration as their purpose.


If we could stop relating to meaning and purpose as artifacts of some divine creative act, and see them instead as the yield of our own creative future, they become goals, intentions, and processes very much in reach—rather than the shadows of childlike, superstitious mythology


The proof is impossible, since it is an unfolding one. Like reaching a horizon, arrival merely necessitates more travel.

Interesting discussion:https://edge.org/responses/what-do-you-believe-is-true-even-though-you-cannot-prove-it
 
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